DWP Benefits

[Moth]

It's not hearsay if someone's told you direct to your face that they've spun a load of bull to get it- that's what I'm basing my comments on here but no one seems to read that bit. On a thread called DWP Benefits you're gonna get a range of experiences and if you completely discount other people's, you stance is a purely ideological one. There's a sort of officer class in online spaces who I suspect are much younger and posher than me who don't like working class people having an unauthorised view. I'm making assumptions now, just like other posters assume I'm part of an im-alright-jack brigade. I'm far from alright. I'm on the bones of me a cos I'm one of those working class women who carries the world on our backs from cradle to coffin and gets slapped down if we have anything other than a tit eating grin over it.

Repeating something that someone else has told you is the definition of 'hearsay.' I've no reason not to believe that is what somebody told you. It might be true, it might not. You've chosen to believe it. Fine. You can hold any 'view' that you want but if you express it on a discussion forum there's a chance someone will challenge it.

My 'stance' is based on direct, practical experience and understanding of the benefits system: making applications with claimants, checking entitlements, writing appeals, dealing with the DWP. Nothing 'ideological' about it. Oh and I can guarantee that I don't fit your assumption about the online 'officer class'.

I know and have acknowledged that some people fiddle the system but that it is demonstrably a tiny minority. I also know that the 'fact' that more than half the households in the country receive more in benefits than they pay in tax is a gross distortion of the truth and that the suggestion that there are 5 times more benefit scroungers than there are genuine claimants is frankly, nonsense.

 

[Foxvint]

Repeating something that someone else has told you is the definition of 'hearsay.' I've no reason not to believe that is what somebody told you. It might be true, it might not. You've chosen to believe it. Fine. You can hold any 'view' that you want but if you express it on a discussion forum there's a chance someone will challenge it.

My 'stance' is based on direct, practical experience and understanding of the benefits system: making applications with claimants, checking entitlements, writing appeals, dealing with the DWP. Nothing 'ideological' about it. Oh and I can guarantee that I don't fit your assumption about the online 'officer class'.

I know and have acknowledged that some people fiddle the system but that it is demonstrably a tiny minority. I also know that the 'fact' that more than half the households in the country receive more in benefits than they pay in tax is a gross distortion of the truth and that the suggestion that there are 5 times more benefit scroungers than there are genuine claimants is frankly, nonsense.

I didn't say there were 5 times more benefit scroungers than genuine claimants. That is a complete distortion and misreading of what i actually said. I said for the 1 genuine case I know, I know 5 ppl who have acknowledged to my face that they have a blag claim. That they are faking. Bizarre to suggest there'd be some debate as to whether or not to believe them. These are ppl I know in life, not a mate of a mates cousin.

When you pointed out previously that the headline that over half of households receive more in benefits than they pay in tax was classing basic human rights like education and health care as benefits I thanked you and read up on that. That 'fact' was reported on reputable sites like BBC news, not dredged up from some wingnut site and I agree it's misleading.

I am sure you know far more about the benefit system than me with you working within it and I welcome the discussion. I wouldn't be posting on the thread if I didn't. I've just failed to hear anything that's changed my mind so far and I don't think arsey comments like 'go on benefits if it's so easy then' (I'm paraphrasing and I know it wasn't you said it) contributes anything to anyones argument.

When ppl can't talk about the scroungers it gifts the topic into the arms of the far right who *actually* dgaf about the disabled. Fury at scroungers and empathy towards the genuine are perfectly able to coexist.

 

[Moth]

You can drive on PIP they give you a mobility car, it will make the assessment more difficult as the DWP will try to spin it in their favour. I watched that celebrity around the world in 40 days and Billy who lost both his legs in a race was driving a car, he would definitely get PIP if he doesn't already. He would need help day to day

A PIP claimant can only get a Motability car if they were awarded the 'enhanced rate mobility component' (currently £71 per week). The lease for the car is paid from the money that you get under PIP. How much you pay depends on which car you choose. I think the cheapest current car is around £60 per week.

To get the 'enhanced rate mobility component' of PIP a claimant is probably going to have at least to prove something like that they can "stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided". I don't know who Billy is but if he can walk more than 20 metres even on artificial legs, he probably isn't going to qualify for a Motability car.

As part of the process of PIP replacing the old DLA (Disability Living Allowance) benefit in 2017, the DWP reassessed every claim and because PIP sets a higher standard for mobility than DLA ], many claimants found that they no longer qualified for the enhanced rate. This meant that those claimants lost their Motability car. In the first three years of transition to PIP over 100,000 people lost their eligibility for a Motability Car.

This person is clearly on the take, but I think the point is people on PIP can work, and do all sorts.
This guy is on UC and probs on LCWRA or LCA (he gets extra UC for being too sick to work) it’s the UC plus the extra he’s definitely not entitled to, that’s clear because he is working.
He may well have also blagged the PIP, but saying he doesn’t need PIP because he can operate machinery or drive or work isn’t an objective fact, due to a lot of ifs and maybes.
For those of us on PIP (who have had to fight for it from the DWP who don’t believe us) that kind of link (you can do X so you don’t need PIP) really triggers us, or should I say pisses us off, as we used to call it! Hence all the pushback Mousey.

You don't get extra UC simply for being "too sick to work" If you are assessed as having LCW (Limited Capability for Work) you get the standard UC amount. If you are assessed as having LCWRA (Limited Capability for Work Related Activity) i.e. you are so sick or disabled that you cannot even take part in activities to prepare you for work in the future, you get an additional £390.06 a month.

It does sound like the chap may be committing benefit fraud by working 'cash in hand' but it's hard to detect especially if the cash doesn't go into his bank account. As I said before instead of simply complaining about it, people should report cases to DWP.

 

[BaxterBillions]

I said for the 1 genuine case I know, I know 5 ppl who have acknowledged to my face that they have a blag claim.

Yeah.....chinny reckon

It's funny that all these people are quite happy to parle their benefit fraud to you, particularly with your attitude on the subject. And it wasn't an arsey comment, it was a simple honest question: If benefits are so easy, why not go on them? I think that deep down you know the real answer.

 

[Captainmouse]

A PIP claimant can only get a Motability car if they were awarded the 'enhanced rate mobility component' (currently £71 per week). The lease for the car is paid from the money that you get under PIP. How much you pay depends on which car you choose. I think the cheapest current car is around £60 per week.

To get the 'enhanced rate mobility component' of PIP a claimant is probably going to have at least to prove something like that they can "stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided". I don't know who Billy is but if he can walk more than 20 metres even on artificial legs, he probably isn't going to qualify for a Motability car.

As part of the process of PIP replacing the old DLA (Disability Living Allowance) benefit in 2017, the DWP reassessed every claim and because PIP sets a higher standard for mobility than DLA ], many claimants found that they no longer qualified for the enhanced rate. This meant that those claimants lost their Motability car. In the first three years of transition to PIP over 100,000 people lost their eligibility for a Motability Car.



You don't get extra UC simply for being "too sick to work" If you are assessed as having LCW (Limited Capability for Work) you get the standard UC amount. If you are assessed as having LCWRA (Limited Capability for Work Related Activity) i.e. you are so sick or disabled that you cannot even take part in activities to prepare you for work in the future, you get an additional £390.06 a month.

It does sound like the chap may be committing benefit fraud by working 'cash in hand' but it's hard to detect especially if the cash doesn't go into his bank account. As I said before instead of simply complaining about it, people should report cases to DWP.

He definitely is committing fraud, he admitted it, the only money in his bank is his benefits, he buys and sells cars, none of his vehicles are registered in his name, So the baylifs(sp) can’t take them following his bankruptcy. He asked me if I would like my car stolen, so I can claim the insurance. He is my neighbour, I see him daily.

 

[HotesTilaire]

A PIP claimant can only get a Motability car if they were awarded the 'enhanced rate mobility component' (currently £71 per week). The lease for the car is paid from the money that you get under PIP. How much you pay depends on which car you choose. I think the cheapest current car is around £60 per week.

To get the 'enhanced rate mobility component' of PIP a claimant is probably going to have at least to prove something like that they can "stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided". I don't know who Billy is but if he can walk more than 20 metres even on artificial legs, he probably isn't going to qualify for a Motability car.

As part of the process of PIP replacing the old DLA (Disability Living Allowance) benefit in 2017, the DWP reassessed every claim and because PIP sets a higher standard for mobility than DLA ], many claimants found that they no longer qualified for the enhanced rate. This meant that those claimants lost their Motability car. In the first three years of transition to PIP over 100,000 people lost their eligibility for a Motability Car.



You don't get extra UC simply for being "too sick to work" If you are assessed as having LCW (Limited Capability for Work) you get the standard UC amount. If you are assessed as having LCWRA (Limited Capability for Work Related Activity) i.e. you are so sick or disabled that you cannot even take part in activities to prepare you for work in the future, you get an additional £390.06 a month.

It does sound like the chap may be committing benefit fraud by working 'cash in hand' but it's hard to detect especially if the cash doesn't go into his bank account. As I said before instead of simply complaining about it, people should report cases to DWP.

I get LCWRA of £390 per month in addition to UC as I am unable to work at all.
If I was LCA Id be well enough to prepare for finding work and I’d get £146 per month in addition to UC, so you are incorrect

Additional elements of Universal Credit (UC)

The amount of Universal Credit (UC) you get can include support for housing costs, children and childcare, disability or health conditions and carer support.

www.turn2us.org.uk

PIP is assessed on daily living element and mobility element, and can be awarded at standard or enhanced rate, so there are 4 variations there, plus the impairment might be fluctuating so some elements are assessed on being impaired for 50% of the time, but some aren’t. Therefore it’s near impossible for a casual observer to accurately guess.

 

[Foxvint]

Yeah.....chinny reckon

It's funny that all these people are quite happy to parle their benefit fraud to you, particularly with your attitude on the subject. And it wasn't an arsey comment, it was a simple honest question: If benefits are so easy, why not go on them? I think that deep down you know the real answer.

Maybe I should to prove a point to individuals like you who reckon anyone with a different experience must be lying about it. And why would these ppl know my views? I mind my own biz and i wish they'd mind theirs not boasting to ppl who are struggling. I also have been on benefits when I was a single mum as stated previously. I was better off than i am working full time. But you won't wanna believe that either. I also know work not paying properly is not the fault of anyone on benefits. I do not demonise benefit claimants. Millions need them at some point in their life. My comments have all the way been about scroungers and fakers only.

I also don't think the world owes me a living, hard as full time work is. It's called *working* class pride. Apparently this thread happy to be an echo chamber only. Here's a simple honest question to you - why would I have been somewhere that would've been considered a far left position on this issue a few years ago but no longer? Could it be that life has taught me otherwise? If you're not gonna engage in good faith I don't know why you're replying. Am sure you'd appreciate some incredulous emoji over your crappy experience being sanctioned for the flu.

As I have also stated on almost every post, I don't have any answers. Nor do I have to. This is a gossip and commentary site not some important parliamentary debate. I've only ever claimed to be talking about my personal experiences, which apparently aren't to be believed anyway.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Yeah.....chinny reckon

It's funny that all these people are quite happy to parle their benefit fraud to you, particularly with your attitude on the subject. And it wasn't an arsey comment, it was a simple honest question: If benefits are so easy, why not go on them? I think that deep down you know the real answer.

We live in an area where benefit fraud is admired, you wouldn’t say out loud that you had a problem with it, otherwise you’d get targetted before you had a chance to snitch. Can‘t report it with broken hands.
---

Maybe I should to prove a point to individuals like you who reckon anyone with a different experience must be lying about it. And why would these ppl know my views? I mind my own biz and i wish they'd mind theirs not boasting to ppl who are struggling. I also have been on benefits when I was a single mum as stated previously. I was better off than i am working full time. But you won't wanna believe that either. I also know work not paying properly is not the fault of anyone on benefits. I do not demonise benefit claimants. Millions need them at some point in their life. My comments have all the way been about scroungers and fakers only.

I also don't think the world owes me a living, hard as full time work is. It's called *working* class pride. Apparently this thread happy to be an echo chamber only. Here's a simple honest question to you - why would I have been somewhere that would've been considered a far left position on this issue a few years ago but no longer? Could it be that life has taught me otherwise? If you're not gonna engage in good faith I don't know why you're replying. Am sure you'd appreciate some incredulous emoji over your crappy experience being sanctioned for the flu.

As I have also stated on almost every post, I don't have any answers. Nor do I have to. This is a gossip and commentary site not some important parliamentary debate. I've only ever claimed to be talking about my personal experiences, which apparently aren't to be believed anyway.

Not read yet but we x postedFoxy

 

[Foxvint]

Am from a culture where a grass is as bad as a pon. I'd never grass anyone unless it involved violence to kids or animals. They'll get theirs. Hopefully.

I also really do appreciate the excellent points other ppl have made. I may not always get my own tone right.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Exactly the same as the staff in the Co-op just letting people steal. Absolutely no point stopping them, they know where you work, probably where you live, it’s not worth the risk, immediately or Weeks later when they decide to get you back.

 

[BaxterBillions]

And why would these ppl know my views?

Because people don't come up to people they don't know and casually drop "Oh, by the way...I'm a benefits fraudster" into the conversation, that's why. They must know you on some personal level and given your tone know that you would be disapproving.

Come on now, be honest with us.

 

[HotesTilaire]

I’m not sure about DWP but I worked with someone who did Council fraud - Housing benefit and council tax. They sometimes used surveillance but they also had access to loads of stuff like national insurance/tax etc so they can see that you’re earning X across 2 jobs and so does your partner who alledgdly doesn’t live in your house but all his work/bank etc is at your address and he’s been seen leaving there every morning.
They don’t do all that unless they’ve had a tip off.

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

Question for those in the know: these sorts of forums and fb groups have a lot of people claiming that they’ve caught the DWP camped outside their house doing surveillance, and I’m aware that a large proportion of those people will be rather paranoid, but I’m curious to know if those sorts of things ever happen? How do they actually catch the fraudsters?

Depends. Things like disability benefit fraud then yes its usually surveillance.

Living together / self-employment / cash in hand and not declaring. There are loads of scans done all the time with addresses / bank accounts. Its actually the more sophisticated stuff like that catching people nowadays than someone hiding out in a car outside.

Also lots of people reporting it too. Its all anon these days.

 

[Foxvint]

Because people don't come up to people they don't know and casually drop "Oh, by the way...I'm a benefits fraudster" into the conversation, that's why. They must know you on some personal level and given your tone know that you would be disapproving.

Come on now, be honest with us.

Of course they know me. I work with most of them, 1 is a friend of my husbands, 1 is a mates mum, 3 are colleagues. They're not friends but i know them very well. Do u approach ppl with an unsolicited summary of your views cos I don't. As @HotesTilaire so well explained there are pockets of our culture that absolutely celebrate getting 1 over on the establishment (as they see it) and openly talk about it. That you find that so hard to believe suggests we're from different worlds.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Of course they know me. I work with most of them, 1 is a friend of my husbands, 1 is a mates mum, 3 are colleagues. They're not friends but i know them very well. Do u approach ppl with an unsolicited summary of your views cos I don't. As @HotesTilaire so well explained there are pockets of our culture that absolutely celebrate getting 1 over on the establishment (as they see it) and openly talk about it. That you find that so hard to believe suggests we're from different worlds.

Oh I put them on ignore, will have to look, is all benefit fraud still somehow your fault?

 

[BaxterBillions]

That you find that so hard to believe suggests we're from different worlds.

Oh I think that is pretty obvious. Given that you have reacted so defensively to such a simple question confirms for me that you, like most who react that way, are exaggerating.

 

[Foxvint]

Oh I think that is pretty obvious. Given that you have reacted so defensively to such a simple question confirms for me that you, like most who react that way, are exaggerating.

Thank you so for so neatly demonstrating the way working class women are not considered credible witnesses to our own lives. I feel sorry for any you encounter.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Anyway, on topic. Here’s a list of possible crimes I’m not doing anything about-
Amazon dodging tax
Water companies deliberately pumping sewage on the beach
local cafe is a health hazard
still going to moan about it! And benefit fraud.

 

[Moth]

I get LCWRA of £390 per month in addition to UC as I am unable to work at all.
If I was LCA Id be well enough to prepare for finding work and I’d get £146 per month in addition to UC, so you are incorrect

Additional elements of Universal Credit (UC)

The amount of Universal Credit (UC) you get can include support for housing costs, children and childcare, disability or health conditions and carer support.

www.turn2us.org.uk

That would be correct assuming you applied for UC before April 2017 or were already receiving the comparable "work related activity' component of ESA. Otherwise you would only receive standard UC (the same as someone looking for work).

From the 'Turn2Us' link that you posted ... "From 3 April 2017, the limited capability for work element will not be available to claimants who claim Universal Credit (UC) on or after this date ..."

PIP is assessed on daily living element and mobility element, and can be awarded at standard or enhanced rate, so there are 4 variations there, plus the impairment might be fluctuating so some elements are assessed on being impaired for 50% of the time, but some aren’t. Therefore it’s near impossible for a casual observer to accurately guess.

Absolutely agree. In many of claims I prepare, even though I have the assessment criteria and guidance to assessors available to me, I still can't predict with any certainty whether PIP will be awarded and if so at what level. The '50% of the time' rule for people who have good days and bad days is a good rule of thumb but even then it's no guarantee and you know that DWP assessors will try to undermine it.

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

Years ago I remember being told to fill out the forms based on your worst day, and to never say sometimes as they would assume that means you can, and score zero points. Is the advice different now?

No. Do not say sometimes. Absolutely fill out the forms based on your worst day.

If the question is can you walk 100 metres, if its likely to take you triple the time of an able bodied person and leave you wiped out the answer is no.

Not 'yes with extreme difficulty or with aides'

I think the mental toll of addressing where your body or mind is failing you can be extremely hard for people. These forms are made that way. Genuine people want to try and do the most their body will allow despite the consequences of that.