Its part of my job so its the only reason I know although I dont work with UC so my knowledge is v basic. Someone may know more than me so I'm happy to be corrected
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I know someone on UC and she was absolutely hounded into work by the job centre (or similar role) the second her child was in school and they still hound her to make sure she’s still in work (which she is). I know in theory that all sounds right and proper but her work have to absolutely bend over backwards to only give her the hours she can work im school holidays as a single parent with no childcare. That’s a lot of weeks in the year the government expect people to work as normal with no childcare.
Oh I didn't realise they expect you to work full time? My friend only does term time but has never had an issue. Wonder if it will be now she's dropped her hours?
You can play around on a website like EntitledTo or Turn2Us and see exactly how much you'd be entitled to in any given situation. The benefits system is a lot more generous to some than others. If you're a single person with a mortgage and you lose your job, you really don't get much at all. I'm not an expert but I think all you'd get is Jobseekers Allowance at £70 a week plus Universal Credit of about £350 a month. Better than nothing but I doubt that covers anyone's bills for a month. If you are disabled, have multiple children with disabilities and live in rented accommodation, you can get a hell of a lot more as other 'elements' get tacked on like housing benefit, disability benefit, etc. Necessary disclaimer - of course I don't begrudge anyone with genuine disabilities who gets benefits as nobody should have to live in poverty because of illness, and I understand that if your disability causes a lot of extra expenses the benefits package probably doesn't seem all that generous.
Over half of all households in this country get more in benefits than they pay in tax. That is simply not sustainable. Working ppl are shat on. There'll be an outcry from the bleeding hearts who think its fine for some ppl to work til they're worn out and wrung out at 67 so other ppl don't have to about the bank account checks that are now going to go on when someone claims UC but I think it's the bare minimum- the rules are insanely generous anyway. If you've got 16k in the bank what the hell do you need UC for? That's more money than I take home in a year in exchange for 5 days a week of my life after NI and tax is pilfered from it.
I used to believe all the lefty rhetoric about benefits being a subsistence life until I started a job that entails seeing ppls bank accounts. It's working families who suffer in this country. It is immoral that 2 ppl in a household need to work FT just to keep afloat in order to do it all again the next day when there's households of no work, ever. When my marriage broke down i was a single mum for a while and I was much better off as a part time working single mum than I am as a FT working person now remarried with a FT working husband. That's ducked up. And definitely not just down to soaring living costs we're all dealing with.
Benefits have gone up 10%. My wages haven't. An they get COL drops too as if us clowns who work aren't subject to COL price hikes. I'd argue we're more subject to them with our mortgages and private rents. Everyone loves a MH conversation til you say the 1 thing that'd improve mine is not being surrounded by bums who have a better standard of life than me while mine is stolen by FT work and an hour of it is only worth a tenner.
Should go without saying I'm not calling genuine claimants bums. I have a dearly loved nephew on higher level of PIP and thank god that safety net is there. But for that 1 genuine example I can give you 5 that aren't. I'm not assuming. Im not doing a 'they look ok to me' thing. I'm talking direct knowledge from the horses mouth that they're blagging it. I consider these mats in the same light as I would if they went into my purse and stole directly.
I used to believe all the lefty rhetoric about benefits being a subsistence life until I started a job that entails seeing ppls bank accounts. It's working families who suffer in this country. It is immoral that 2 ppl in a household need to work FT just to keep afloat in order to do it all again the next day when there's households of no work, ever. When my marriage broke down i was a single mum for a while and I was much better off as a part time working single mum than I am as a FT working person now remarried with a FT working husband. That's ducked up. And definitely not just down to soaring living costs we're all dealing with.
Benefits have gone up 10%. My wages haven't. An they get COL drops too as if us clowns who work aren't subject to COL price hikes. I'd argue we're more subject to them with our mortgages and private rents. Everyone loves a MH conversation til you say the 1 thing that'd improve mine is not being surrounded by bums who have a better standard of life than me while mine is stolen by FT work and an hour of it is only worth a tenner.
Should go without saying I'm not calling genuine claimants bums. I have a dearly loved nephew on higher level of PIP and thank god that safety net is there. But for that 1 genuine example I can give you 5 that aren't. I'm not assuming. Im not doing a 'they look ok to me' thing. I'm talking direct knowledge from the horses mouth that they're blagging it. I consider these mats in the same light as I would if they went into my purse and stole directly.
You get the jobseeking element of UC, or jobseekers. Not both. so you get about £350 per month only, which is about £80 per week. Not both.
Anyone who is entitled can get housing element of UC (which is capped by the local authority) this may not cover all your rent. You would also get council tax discount, if entitled.
Any additional on top of that is for child or disability.
My 21 year old step daughter left college after a few weeks at 16 she then worked for a few weeks In a care home before getting sacked she has been on uc most of her life after school
She "works" full time as a volunteer in a charity shop she has recently been granted pip (I honestly don't know for what she's not disabled)
She had uc back pay of 4 grand and just recently another 3 plus grand pip back pay the council are finding her a private rent flat that they will pay for along with council tax paid for she will also get a grant to furnish it
Me and her dad both work pay tax and income tax and pension by the end of the month we are broke we have no savings
I just don't get the benefit system she is able to work as a volunteer but still claim I dint begrudge her but I just don't get it
She "works" full time as a volunteer in a charity shop she has recently been granted pip (I honestly don't know for what she's not disabled)
She had uc back pay of 4 grand and just recently another 3 plus grand pip back pay the council are finding her a private rent flat that they will pay for along with council tax paid for she will also get a grant to furnish it
Me and her dad both work pay tax and income tax and pension by the end of the month we are broke we have no savings
I just don't get the benefit system she is able to work as a volunteer but still claim I dint begrudge her but I just don't get it
Kids in my work who live at home and are well enough to work full time get it for anxiety. I'm pretty anxious when I see the bus coming and don't get on it cos there's 2 quid I can save. Quite anxiety inducing living off milky coffees in the works kitchen close to payday.
I hate that you're not even supposed to have these conversations cos ppl act like you're some kind of Dr Mengele advocating for the ill to be bumped off. It just decends into hyperbole and ppl acting like you just tipped someone out their wheelchair. I absolutely do not think someone's worth is dependent on them being economically active. I do think 1 of the reasons this country has undergone a shift to the right in my lifetime is working peoples exhaustion with bed wetting piss takers.
I hate that you're not even supposed to have these conversations cos ppl act like you're some kind of Dr Mengele advocating for the ill to be bumped off. It just decends into hyperbole and ppl acting like you just tipped someone out their wheelchair. I absolutely do not think someone's worth is dependent on them being economically active. I do think 1 of the reasons this country has undergone a shift to the right in my lifetime is working peoples exhaustion with bed wetting piss takers.
PIP is not an easy benefit to get. There are people who are genuinely disabled denied it time and time again.
The trials and tribulations people need to go through to receive what is essentially not a payment equal to a wage is alot.
Its also not a guaranteed payment, some people will get a lifetime award but that is not common. Youl be expected to reapply every 2 / 3 / 5 years and can again just have it stopped whilst you go through the appeals process.
Are there people milking the system absolutely but for every person being paid the benefit fraudulently there are hundreds if not thousands not being paid what they are entitled to.
I work within the system and there are many many problems but folk claiming fraudulently is so low down the list of issues that I see.
The trials and tribulations people need to go through to receive what is essentially not a payment equal to a wage is alot.
Its also not a guaranteed payment, some people will get a lifetime award but that is not common. Youl be expected to reapply every 2 / 3 / 5 years and can again just have it stopped whilst you go through the appeals process.
Are there people milking the system absolutely but for every person being paid the benefit fraudulently there are hundreds if not thousands not being paid what they are entitled to.
I work within the system and there are many many problems but folk claiming fraudulently is so low down the list of issues that I see.
I do appreciate that. I would have made similar arguments even 1 year ago. If I personally know 5 ppl blagging it that suggests to me that the system has no clue how many are blagging it. I also know benefit fraud is miniscule in comparison to tax avoidance but I can't see Mr CEO in his yacht while I can see the lying b down the road. Any convo on this quickly becomes whatabboutery but if someone's robbed of 50 quid they're allowed to be annoyed even though someone else has been robbed of a 100. I think the left has utterly abandoned working ppl, but that's probably another convo and thread altogether. Someone will always finger wag about divide and conquer as soon as you bring this up but I'm perfectly okay with being divided from lazy liars. Not my people.
In this case 'benefits' apparently includes non-cash benefits such as the NHS and education. A convenient distortion by a right-wing, government friendly 'think tank' to rile people up about the benefits system in order to justify yet another attack on benefits claimants.
Welfare cuts worth billions planned by ministers
The changes, affecting hundreds of thousands of people from 2025, would save £4bn in welfare payments.
www.bbc.co.uk
In June 2022, over 40% of Universal Credit claimants were in work. The benefit system is just as much a corporate welfare system to allow companies to maximise profits by paying minimal wages.
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Given the general acknowledgement of how complicated the benefits system is, it's amazing how certain some people are that other people are getting benefits that they are not entitled to.
The thing with disability benefits is that there is such a stigma attached to them for many.In this case 'benefits' apparently includes non-cash benefits such as the NHS and education. A convenient distortion by a right-wing, government friendly 'think tank' to rile people up about the benefits system in order to justify yet another attack on benefits claimants.
Welfare cuts worth billions planned by ministers
The changes, affecting hundreds of thousands of people from 2025, would save £4bn in welfare payments.
In June 2022, over 40% of Universal Credit claimants were in work. The benefit system is just as much a corporate welfare system to allow companies to maximise profits by paying minimal wages.
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Given the general acknowledgement of how complicated the benefits system is, it's amazing how certain some people are that other people are getting benefits that they are not entitled to.
I know of several people in FT work who are getting PIP and wouldnt want anyone to know.
It is a really complex subject. I also feel the life of riley situation that is so often banded about isnt true. Benefit caps mean post 2017 you can only get means tested benefit for 2 children. No more.
Its extremely difficult now to be in no form of work at all. You can sanctioned easily too if not complying with the requirements set out to you.
If anyone thinks its easier and youd be better off on benefits why are you even working?
The majority of people on Universal Credit are in work. Employers have no incentives to pay a decent wage because of top up benefits.
A massive chunk of UC paid out goes into the pocket of landlords. Just think if more people were in social housing (which isnt readibly available) that money would be going back into the pockets of LA and the government.
Its all a tit show and yes there are people who milk the system but there are so many more issues to solve.
UC is such hard work. A lot of people are currently getting reviews on their accounts they have to explain every little transaction, withdrawal and are being asked what they bought at ASDA etc Its damaging their mental health
We had this discussion somewhere recently - in Liverpool there’s a particular set of people who think they’re winning at life and sticking two fingers up to the government by blagging benefits. It’s not just annoying that they’re faking it, but also that they feel entitled to do so and it’s a sense of pride. They look down on people working for a living.
Im sure it’s happening in other places but I understand Foxy-V’s point of view. I also am quite disabled, but had to go to a tribunal to get PIP at the lower rate. It took a year and was hard going. You have to admire the people faking it can manage to get it when genuine people can’t.
That's it. It's a certain cultural thing. Once again I am not talking about the genuine and nor do i think I'm judge and jury of who is or who isn't. I'm talking about ppl who have openly boasted to my face about the bull they've spun to get it. Am i allowed to be certain it goes on then?
Didn't know that about the calculation of more being taken out than going in including things like education so thankyou.
I think the system allows for a margin of blag, to be honest. People who dedicate themselves to playing the system have always found ways to get what they want.
No government wants to pay out benefits, no matter what they say it’s designed to make it difficult to access help.
I certainly don't have any answers. But if you've got 7 days a week free to play the system you absolutely can.
This is the problem. To allow those who truly need it access there is always going to be people playing the system.
The system is already difficult to navigate and that means vulnerable people often arent getting what they need because of the hoops you need to jump through.
Its my job and whilst I see people who may not be telling us the truth I see more broken people who are exhausted and have given up trying to sort things out.
You make it even more difficult to claim and those people will give up entirely and the people whove always scammed the system will continue to do so.
I accept that, absolutely. I'm not saying it should be more difficult to claim. I don't have any answers. I've observed my sister struggling to get what my nephew needs and deserves, I hope I understand the excellent points disability campaigners make about the process being an additional punishment. But everyone's excellent points also don't make mine untrue.
You can't. It would be impossible to design a system so sensitive that it could ensure that out of millions of people, everybody who should get help is helped and everybody who shouldn't, isn't. Part of the problem with the complexity of the system comes from years and years of efforts to make it more 'fair."
In practice you either have to have a system that denies help to people that need it in order to try to exclude those who aren't entitled or you have to accept that some people will get benefits that they aren't entitled to. Nobody wants the latter to happen and I get just as annoyed as anyone else when I (rarely) see it but I prefer it to the alternative. We've had 13 years of the opposite approach and it has killed people.