I wonder if her small children are allowed anywhere near it. I'd find the idea of a 3k rug stressful even if I didn't have a 2 year old
I wonder if her small children are allowed anywhere near it. I'd find the idea of a 3k rug stressful even if I didn't have a 2 year oldThere are a few articles online where her home is the feature. She has a rug in her ‘sitting room’ that costs over £3000 alone. I’m not sure about anyone else, but I know that isn’t something I find relatable or something I aspire to.
I want to read books by people on this thread! I read the sample of Pandora’s book yesterday and it was so clunky. The way people write on here is cleansing my eyesExactly. Friendly reminder that Pandora is a hereditary title (http://www.thepeerage.com/p19709.htm#i197087). She’s related to Jane Birkin. She went to St Mary’s in Ascot, where term fees are £13,380 a term (and her niece now goes there, so it’s likely she might also send Zadie there). Her house in Kensal was £1.3 million. Christ - her bed is upholstered in Pierre Grey, which goes for upwards of £600 a metre! She categorically isn’t, and can’t be, an objective commentator on the ephemeral “millenial condition”. Her life is so far removed from any kind of normal “gen rent” experience; trying to act as an orator for the middle classes is just laughable. Throwing a tantrum when she (very fairly, and fairly diplomatically) gets called out for doing so is repugnant and spoilt. The article made some really important points, namely that Pandora’s book has an entire essay bemoaning fast fashion and why we all need to buy less, without ever really addressing how her job as ST’s Wardrobe Mistress contributed to and perpetuated consumer culture. She literally made her money, whether through Instagram or her column, by enticing people to buy. Fine - people change, as do consumption habits. But she seems to have a repeating pattern in failing to acknowledge how she is not only complicit, but culpable in the problems facing millennials. She doesn’t seem to understand that she can’t remove herself from the problem - in order to write about it well, she must fully examine her role in these issues. She’s not some observing Alain de Botton-esque voyeur - she’s an ex-fashion writer with skin in the game.
Pierre Frey*
Haha yes and I think the same article says something at the start about completing it within a ‘tight timeframe’ and each time I’ve read it (return offender) I’ve misread it as ‘tight budget’ because that’s what is typically more common.I remember reading the article in whatever interiors magazine it was. It said that "a sense of optimism" helped her complete the house on a short timescale . I wanted to add: "and LOADS and LOADS of cash"
I’m with you on this. I feel enraged for kids and young adults. What a terrible time to be coming of age.Sorry for the thread hog but another thing...
I’ve just been reading about the A Level results. I feel sick on behalf of those who been marked down based on little more than the socio economic status of the school. I still have stress dreams about my A levels and I’m in my late 30s. What the actual ARGHHH. It is a total myth that you can get to the position that Pandora and Dolly are in through hard work, grit and determination. The infuriating thing is that by issuing a privilege disclaimer the likes of Pandora and Dolly feel that they are effectively off the hook. There is no need to examine their place and how they contribute to it. The system is not fair but acknowledging that undermines their position and the narrative they tell about how they ‘earned’ their position.
Just read this and came to the thread to see if anyone else had seen it!So a young woman wrote for advice on her drink problem‘I have a history of getting biblically slaughtered every time I get drunk,’ and Dolly responds as attachment. Don’t worry, drinking is great, especially excessive drinking. Given her own drinking problem I fear this will be advice she rues in later life...
Agreed, clearly ignoring an issue here!So a young woman wrote for advice on her drink problem‘I have a history of getting biblically slaughtered every time I get drunk,’ and Dolly responds as attachment. Don’t worry, drinking is great, especially excessive drinking. Given her own drinking problem I fear this will be advice she rues in later life...
Really enjoying this thread too, sometimes I feel bad for going on Tattle as it has such a bad rap, but i've learnt so many interesting viewpoints on here!I also think painting criticism as nasty and troll behaviour halts any discussion which is boring. Pandora could have used this situation to start a discussion, but instead she has ran away licking her wounds and had her manager/agent sharing snarky tweets. Some of these women (Dolly, Pandora, Elizabeth, Emma and that "in blue tick group") are now painted as the voice of the everywoman/a generation. And it's so dangerous if they are not mature enough to consider the views of people who disagree and engage in discussion. And I actually like some of their work, think they are intelligent and do agree with a lot of what they say, so not a "troll".
Criticism doesn't feel nice. But it is useful. At work, I always get feedback on my articles and other things I do. And sometimes my first instinct is to feel a bit irritated if I don't agree/am upset it it's something that I've worked hard on. But most of the time it also leads to: "oh yeah that makes sense/improves this/is something I had never considered". And sometimes if I do disagree with the feedback it can lead to intereating discussion and debate. Because I'm an adult and that is how life works!
I must say I'm really enjoying this thread. Some very intelligent and thoughtful posts here.
Also edit to add another thought: These women have reached a level of success, income and opportunity that the majority of people can't even hope for. And privilege may have helped them get there, but their hard work and the fact people like them enough to follow and support also means something. Yet they can't put a couple of criticising pieces into perspective and consider that maybe they don't get it right all the time? Which is fine because none of us do!
Same re: discussions with friends around class, wealth. Did you ever listen to the Elizabeth Day podcast with Phoebe Waller-Bridge? I thought it was so fascinating when they talked about privilege, upbringing etcI particularly like this thread because it is mostly made up of well thought out opinions on a bigger picture, as opposed to ripping someone to shreds for the sake of it.
I find that the subject of Dolly and Pandora strikes up lengthy and broader discussions with my friend group. Not just about them, but it opens up discussions around class, wealth, income, upbringing, levels of privilege and so on. In my immediate friend group, we are all ‘working class’ with careers that we have worked hard to achieve, careers that people of a middle class may look down on as being ‘just a job’.
In my wider friends group, there are a few who are more ‘middle class’ and the higher level of privilege really shows.
Same re: discussions with friends around class, wealth. Did you ever listen to the Elizabeth Day podcast with Phoebe Waller-Bridge? I thought it was so fascinating when they talked about privilege, upbringing etcI particularly like this thread because it is mostly made up of well thought out opinions on a bigger picture, as opposed to ripping someone to shreds for the sake of it.
I find that the subject of Dolly and Pandora strikes up lengthy and broader discussions with my friend group. Not just about them, but it opens up discussions around class, wealth, income, upbringing, levels of privilege and so on. In my immediate friend group, we are all ‘working class’ with careers that we have worked hard to achieve, careers that people of a middle class may look down on as being ‘just a job’.
In my wider friends group, there are a few who are more ‘middle class’ and the higher level of privilege really shows.
Michaela coel absolutely nailed it on a recent episode of the Gal dem podcast about 'taking the note' i.e taking criticism from your peers / bosses. Transcript of the episode is here (search 'take the note' to get to the bit) https://gal-dem.com/growing-up-with-gal-dem-podcast/growing-up-with-gal-dem-transcript-s2e1/You and I are going to get along splendidly! Did you know her grandfather invented London Weekend Television or ITV or something? He was Lord Buxton of Asda (sorry , ASTA) I think and Prince Philip was at his funeral. I also love looking up the parents' piles of these media/fashion types then--because there's no Street View on Google Maps, obviously--clicking on Satellite view and seeing the pools and tennis courts.
All of your points are eloquently stated. I'm also a writer and was trained early on to seek out and learn from feedback. I'm always trying to perfect it.
Me too and also you can understand how they get through so many if they are actually quite lightweight and easy to read.I'm not a big reader and used to find the amount they read and how they'd talk about books a little intimidating but since actually reading some of the ones they've gushed about and finding them quite underwhelming it's made me question all their reviews.
Woah, that is some bad advice Dolly. I know no one can really be taking her column seriously and it will all be seen as a bit of fun but when it comes to stuff like drinking which can put people in some real danger it stops being fun and starts being irresponsible.So a young woman wrote for advice on her drink problem‘I have a history of getting biblically slaughtered every time I get drunk,’ and Dolly responds as attachment. Don’t worry, drinking is great, especially excessive drinking. Given her own drinking problem I fear this will be advice she rues in later life...
Quite. If everyone time you get drunk you end up slaughted, that is NOT NORMAL- it is evidence of a tendency to alcoholism- go ask Bryony Gordon.Woah, that is some bad advice Dolly. I know no one can really be taking her column seriously and it will all be seen as a bit of fun but when it comes to stuff like drinking which can put people in some real danger it stops being fun and starts being irresponsible.
I've been lurking on this thread and really enjoyed reading all your discussion.
How does pandora maintain her lifestyle? The mortgage (if there is one) must be upwards of £5k a month, then there's the nanny and the £3k rugs. How is this possible from a book deal, podcast and occasional articles in the ST style? Do people this rich have a big monthly allowance from parents? Or do they get given £5 mil when they turn 25 that is invested to make an income? If anyone could shed light I'd me incredibly grateful.
Sorry for the long post!
This is a really interesting point and I can relate a lot. I'm from a working class family, my dad passed when I was 14 so it was just my mum who was working full time and also caring for a family member. Her salary was not high though of course she did get some help. I'm not sure what exactly but certain benefits to help with me and my siblings, and carers allowance, and we got EMA at college too. I then also got a grant and bursary at uni which I didn't have to pay back due to household income.I wish there was more transparency, rather just saying "I know I'm privileged". I feel incredibly privileged myself, I've had two parents who've cared for me, EMA whilst I did my A-Levels and maintenance grants/ bursaries that got me through uni, neither of which are available to young people today. Now I realise they are not referring to the same privilege! But as they don't disclose details and position themselves as the working millennium women I felt for a long time that I should be living a life like theirs, and in all honestly felt a bit bad that I wasn't able to - which I now realise is frankly rediculous.
Sorry for the long post!
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