Dolly Alderton / Pandora Sykes #2

[Mermaid456]

I didn’t manage to get the paper on Sunday, would anyone be able to post a screen shot please?
I really enjoy Dolly’s writing, she’s written some lovely responses in her advice column.

Here you go x

DEAR DOLLY: ‘I’M 32 AND SINGLE, AND NOW MY FRIENDS ARE HAVING BABIES’

Your love, life and friendship dilemmas answered


I’m 32 and longtime single, and friends often wring their hands at my bad choice of men, worrying about me living alone with no one around. All has been fine until recently, when all my married friends started announcing babies. Suddenly I can’t stop crying when I’m alone. Do I have to accept that maybe this isn’t going to happen? Or can I hold on for the guy and the baby?

I very nearly didn’t reply to this letter. I really wanted to, because it is a worry that I hear about constantly and know very well. My reluctance to address it is that it concerns female fertility and therefore female bodies. And people have a lot of opinions on female bodies. So my first piece of advice is to ignore any advice that makes you feel anxious or ashamed. Don’t read the comments on this column. Don’t read articles that cite fertility “facts” from studies that date from 150 years ago. Don’t believe the pseudoscience about female biology that you hear anecdotally. The only person you should listen to when it comes to your body is yourself and your doctor.

I’ve always found that when I can’t stop crying, it is an expression of frustration. And I think that is the correct word to describe what it is to be a single woman in her thirties who wants a family and can see no clear way of making it happen. It’s frustrating not to know how or when you’ll meet the right person. It’s frustrating to feel as if there is rapidly dwindling time to get pregnant. Every woman I know in your position says the same thing: “If only someone could guarantee that I will have a baby at some point in the future, I’d stop thinking about it.”

Yet that cannot be guaranteed to anyone, whether they are single or with the person with whom they want to have children. The best way to keep the odds on your side is to make sensible, logical decisions rather than panic-based ones. For starters, enough with the bad men, lady. They’re a drain on your time and heart. And your time and love are precious, irrespective of whether you want children or not. If you don’t know why you keep choosing them, go to therapy. Or if that’s not possible, ask your friends who know and love you to give their insight.
There is also the option of egg-freezing, but this is a deeply personal choice, dependent on a number of factors. One woman I know has saved up to do it and is really excited at the prospect — she sees it as the best present she could give herself for a slightly increased sense of freedom. Another friend recently did a U-turn on the process. She realised that she was only doing it out of fear and she didn’t want to spend all that money on something that represented her own negative thought spirals. Do some research and have a think about whether this might be right for you. Again, freezing or not freezing your eggs won’t guarantee that you will or won’t have a baby.

You should also seek out the stories of women who are a bit older than you and have chosen a less traditional path. Most of the women I see as mentors, whom I’ve worked for and collaborated with over the years, did not meet their husband at university, get married at 25 and have two children before they were 30. Some of them had children on their own through IVF, sperm donation or adoption. Some never had children and don’t regret it at all. All of their stories serve as a reminder that there is more than one way to have a settled, peaceful home life.
One of these women is a director who had her children in her forties. “Once you have babies, Dolly, life is only about babies for a while,” she said. I found this such a helpful reminder to inhabit the stage I’m at right now, and be grateful for what it is at this precise moment, rather than dwell on what it isn’t. Instead of looking at your life and seeing the lack, look for the abundance. Free time? Go to the cinema in the afternoon. Money that doesn’t have to go on childcare? Buy a really stupidly gorgeous handbag. Flat that’s all yours? Paint every room your favourite colour and fill the fridge with Aldi champagne and stinky cheese.
Finally, my most important piece of advice is to keep giving love to the women who have everything you want. Any time you feel jealous of your friends, make a promise to yourself to turn it into an act of love and it will neutralise any feelings of bitterness. Message your friend who is a new mum and ask for baby photos. Go round to see her, take the baby and let her have a nap. Find out what your pregnant friend is craving and send her a pack of it in the post. Keep putting love out into the world and it will come back to you in one way or another. That, I’ve learnt, is one of life’s only guarantees.

 

[bedatareasonablehour]

These threads are their nastiest and least interesting when people start picking apart appearances sorry

 

[d0llhouse]

A niggle, but a few weeks ago in The Times, Pandora wrote a glowing write-up of Coco Mellors' debut novel. I looked up Coco's husband after she mentioned him during promotion and stumbled on this pic on his profile - he/they were guests at Pandora's wedding six years ago.




These women are literally paid to interview their mates and family friends with nary a concern for providing disclosure and acknowledging their inevitable biases. JUST BE TRANSPARENT.

 

[Mermaid456]

another BRILL article from dolly in the times, so good i had to share - i've certainly been there! happy sunday reading

DEAR DOLLY: ‘I CAN’T FORGET THE MAN I MET FOR ONE NIGHT YEARS AGO’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...e-man-i-met-for-one-night-years-ago-ksts05nv0

I met a guy in a pub seven or eight years ago, when we were both in our twenties. It was my friend’s birthday, he had tagged along not really knowing anyone, and we gravitated towards one another. It felt like, until closing time, nothing around us existed, as though we were the only two people in the room, having the type of endless flow of conversation you only see in a Nora Ephron film growing up. It felt like ”magic”. And then we said goodbye. I was in an unravelling relationship at the time and it didn’t feel fair to entertain anything until that had been dealt with, so I ignored the guy, texts, the evening, everything. The unravelling took longer than expected so I chose not to bother the guy when it was all over and now, years later, I’m in a relationship with a wonderful person, yet I still can’t shake the guy in the pub or that evening. What should I do?
When I was 25 I met a man at a music festival. We didn’t kiss, we didn’t exchange numbers, all in all I would say we spoke for about 40 minutes. For some indescribable reason — let’s call it “the magic” — I decided this was the man I was going to end up with. When I returned to my house share, I calmly informed my housemates that I had met my future partner. I just knew we were going to end up together — I didn’t have to plan for it. For the following five years, bad dates and heartbreak were made a fraction easier because every few months I would once again remember the “Man at the Festival”, and I would feel a sense of reassuring inevitability.
The fantasy came to an abrupt end when my curiosity and impatience got the better of me and, thanks to some diligent stalking, I found him on Instagram. The man not only had the audacity to be engaged to another woman but had also betrayed my long-held belief about who he was. It turned out he was a serial adventurer who liked jumping out of planes (?), as did his fiancée (?), and was worryingly invested in sports. When I saw we had a mutual friend, I told her that, for all this time, I hadn’t realised she had known the man with whom I was meant to spend eternity. “HIM?!” she cackled. “You would never have dated each other in a MILLION YEARS.”

So why had I felt “the magic”? I think I felt the magic because I had wanted to feel the magic. I think the romantic memories of my twenties were so heavily lensed with a need for an adventure that in the immediate aftermath I couldn’t see the truth of what had happened. The memory of the memory became the thing I carried, the actual details of which only emerged once I had more capacity to reflect and analyse (thanks therapy). I wonder if this is the case for you — whether you were looking to have a romance-filled encounter with someone, and that he was similarly predisposed, and what resulted was something you both willed into existence.
I also think you cannot underestimate the insidious powers of compulsive rom-com viewing. I too have been addicted to romantic comedies since I was a teenager and it took me a while to realise that I had picked up a lot of my beliefs about men and women from films rather than real-life experiences. While I think this may have enriched our lives with a whimsical sense of romance and optimism, I also think it’s important we examine the lies we’ve been told. I think the most damaging one is the rule of strangers falling in love.

Let’s be real for a moment: it’s weird that Colin Firth goes to Portugal to ask his housekeeper to marry him when they’ve never had a conversation. It’s weird that Kate Beckinsale and John Cusack end their perfectly functioning relationships because they’re haunted by the memory of the ONE NIGHT they spent together years previously. It’s bizarre that Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan meet for the first time at the top of the Empire State Building on Valentine’s Day and immediately hold hands. All of this is weird. If your friend did any of the above you’d be like, “Mate, stop being weird.”

That’s not what falling in love is like. People don’t fall in love the night they meet. At best they fancy each other hard, and then get to know each other and work out whether they could love each other and build a life together. But rom-coms have to tell a lot of story in 100 minutes, so you can forgive them for taking some shortcuts.
You fell for a projection, not a person. But the good news is: you have a real, actual person you love right in front of you! Someone you know you’re meant to be with not because you spent a handful of hours with them, but a multitude of days and nights filled with conversation and kisses and arguments and decisions and debates and slices of toast. The stuff on which real, often slightly protracted, unscripted love is built.
To get your life dilemma answered by Dolly, email or send a voice note to [email protected] or DM @theststyle

 

[Silentcritique]

I think I need to revisit the book again because I seriously can’t remember any of it being “revolutionary”?! A lot of it struck me as quite self indulgent chronicling of a fairly average middle class upbringing?

I enjoyed the book and do love dolly’s way with words (non-fiction) but definitely read it as a rather specific and rather privileged account of adolescence. Maybe it’s because I’m a few years younger than Dolly, but I couldn’t relate at all having been to a comprehensive school with a large catchment area. Maybe that sounds strange, but as it attracted so many different groups in society from different backgrounds it was actually quite hard to find a crowd that you could relate to. I don’t think that’s a requisite for friendship obviously but it does help to have common experiences, especially when you’re younger. When you go to a school like that, people aren’t destined for hedonistic houseshares in London or wherever. People live with their parents, become nurses, work in a call centre. Moving to Manchester or Leeds is considered aspirational. If you get good grades, move cities, go to a good uni: well, you might as well be moving to Mars.

Someone said earlier about how this thread hates panda. I don’t think anyone here hates panda do they? I don’t dislike pandora or Dolly. It just gets a little bit tiring seeing posh privately educated blonde and skinny girls at the forefront of women’s media again and again and again.

 

[stealthbtch]

Hello all! I just went and read Ellie Abraham's Glamour UK article and I also listened to Em Sheldon's appalling trainwreck of an interview on BBC 4's Women's Hour. The GALL of these women. The unmitigated gall.
I am the commenter who ferreted out the info that Pandy's grandfather founded a television network and that Prince Philip was (by protocol) listed first as an attendee at Baron Asta's funeral in 2009. This is public information. As is the home address of Pandy's family (Cold Manor Cheese Creek Farm or whatever) where she had her wedding, which she put on blast on her socials. I also passed on the Google Maps tip that if you switch to satellite view (because rich people don't let Google Street View cars anywhere NEAR their domiciles, because they are precious precious important people and their right to privacy is assured, I mean purchased via lawyers and local ordinances) you can see that Ms Sykes grew up in a house with a swimming pool and tennis court.
Listen up, TattleLife haters: accessing publicly available newspaper obituaries and basic home address data is NOT DOXXING. The absolute nerve of these people, who gained their followings by harnessing the power of the Internet then five years later, with a bunch of f*ck-off money from book deals and other income streams, get all huffy that the unwashed hordes are threatening them. The utter nerve.

 

[Spilttea]

It’s so incestuous the liberal (pseudo) literati set in London. They all write think pieces for the same papers, interview each other for their own podcasts/make a guest appearance on their mates podcast ( Elizabeth day was even on Pandora’s recent reality tv one) write forwards for each other’s books and have their quotes on the front of said book.

All the while sweeping aside any mention of privilege because they once had to slum it in a house share and could only afford supermarket wine.

I do like Dolly, I haven’t seen the show, I’m not sure I will. Out of all these types she seems somewhat more palatable than say Pandora. Elizabeth Day seems lovely too. Actually, I’m sure they are all lovely women, but it still sucks that these are the people that get opportunity after opportunity and in no small part because of their connections /their parents.

 

[SpeakEasy]

See this is why I fell out of love with the High low a bit - they stopped having opinions. And if they got any negative feedback on anything they said they would spend loads of time at the beginning of the episode apologising and moderating an already moderate opinion. It used to really annoy me. Agree you don’t have to slate a book but again, you are allowed to explain why you don’t like a book. It just comes from a place of fear because they never want anyone to say anything mean about their own books. There’s no nuance to their lives that way.

 

[d0llhouse]

I feel like that whole middle class London journo/writer/podcaster set could pretty much be incorporated into one thread - Dolly, Pandora, Bella, Elizabeth Day, Daisy Buchanan, Otegha Uwagba, Caroline O'Donoghue et al. Not dismissing (some of) their talents, but they all blurb each other's work and guest each other's podcasts, so very much occupy the same media bubble to my mind.

 

[tatty400]

I streamed Pandora and Candice’s event last night. It was a bit awkward as P does not enjoy being interviewed and she was unable to speak eloquently about any of the topics in her book. Partly due to Candice asking a lot of irrelevant questions about fashion. Credit to Pandora she answered these patiently. P’s nerves got the better of her because every answer was very muddled and rushed.

The part I found most irksome was the conversation about social media. She said that using SM makes her feel anxious but she thinks most people enjoy it. The reality is she is not different to anyone else, when she posts a selfie of her in her new glasses in a shop window, or her kitchen, or her at a film premiere, or her posing on the tube, or her holiday to Bermuda, she gets the same dopamine rush as any other Instagram user. She’s not immune to that, she’s not above how the human brain works. She may feel anxious using it sometimes, don’t we all, but for Fs sake if it made her that anxious she would stop posting images of her personal life on it.

She said that 2 years ago she logged in every 2 weeks which is just a lie because I, along with her other 300k+ followers, were consuming a huge amount of holiday, fashion and interiors content from her. Prior to Zadie being born she would post daily updates of furniture and upholstery she was buying for her home. Everything she says about her relationship with social media sounds so false and superior, it’s actually an interesting topic so why not talk about it honestly?

She also said she does not attend fashion events anymore I’m not an influencer blah blah blah but last night she was at the Batsheva x Laura Ashley event with a load of influencers. Her hypocrisy is maddening!

Soz for the essay rant

 

[cholulamare]

 

[Cloak]

I think I need to revisit the book again because I seriously can’t remember any of it being “revolutionary”?! A lot of it struck me as quite self indulgent chronicling of a fairly average middle class upbringing?

 

[cee-bee]

I wonder if her parents are ashamed of her exploits? She’s done well but I wonder if there was a grain of truth in what happened in the series with her parents (trying to be the centre of attention at a suburban event and being so look at me an ex alcoholic falls off the wagon, getting with random friends, bringing class As (from the series bribing seniors with pills seems to be how she gets what she wants (know the series isn’t gospel truth)!

She’s very quiet about her parents which I think is a bit odd? She obviously owes a lot to them and in the TV series they are characterised as being endlessly loving and supportive. I’m surprised a self scribed exhibitionist like Dolly, who puts a lot of her life into the public arena, is so quiet about her parents. Maybe they do disapprove?

I wonder if the irony of Dolly’s character screaming at her lovely supportive parents that they “loved her too much” and then her mother the next day saying “we didn’t raise a spoiled brat” bypassed the writing team or if it was intentional. Because… they most definitely did raise a spoiled brat.

it felt like Maggie/Dolly’s mother was saying we didn’t raise you to be a spoiled brat in relation to her behaviour with their alcoholic neighbour, and Dolly/Maggie apologies for getting drunk and doing that, and that’s the end of it. It doesn’t seem to be a big wake up moment for her in relation to other behaviours

her attitude overall is very spoiled and entitled and I think the show doesn’t quite .. delve into that. It very much just treats it as if it’s part of her quirkiness. She’s so self centred and selfish and her only real likeable moments was when she was being vulnerable on the phone to Birdy.

when she let the random guys into the flat and they steal laptops…Nell is annoyed because shes lost her laptop for work. But I’d have been devastated. My photos from years back are backed up on my laptop. I have personal communications and security info, all of which could be very easily accessed. It would feel like a huge violation. Not to mention the safety risk of letting strangers into their home just so she can chase a high is deeply selfish and spoiled.

they don’t really seem to call her out on it though. She says she’ll replace the laptop and that seems to be the end of it. I don’t blame birdy one bit for wanting to get out of that mess, but it’s painted out as though Birdy is obsessed with her new boyfriend and that’s the reason for the distance.

the most relatable moment for me was when Amara was saying Dolly didn’t “get it” and that she got her job eating pizza on the sofa. Because Maggie/Dolly doesn’t get it. She doesn’t really get anything outside of her limited scope of experience, which is why her writing is so poor - she has zero real empathy. Amara didn’t want Dolly to apologise, she just wanted her “to see”. Which is what irks me so much about Dolly and her writing set. She knows girls like Amara exist, she knows working class girls like me exist. She knows she benefits from her privilege and family wealth and support. But she refuses to open her eyes and see, never mind actually do something about it. Imagine how powerful it would be if Dolly showcased talent that wasn’t middle class and white? If she highlighted that the publishing world is actually not diverse enough? If she took a step back and let someone else be the star of the show. If she let an Amara be the star instead of a Maggie.

I’m not black, but a lot of my experiences are similar to Amaras - I was told I “wasn’t the right fit” for a job and it was clearly because I was too working class. I spent 10 years working for my breakthrough in my career that my middle class peers got straight out of uni - which is similar to the dance instructor telling Amara she can dance professionally, but it’ll be hard. When Dolly, in her little bubble of delusion, dismissed Amara’s experience with online dating as a “bad batch” the look on Amaras face perfectly encapsulates SO MANY times I’ve felt fed up at my experiences of not being understood. That feeling of being a part of a social group but always being a little bit on the periphery because they are all blind to anyone else’s experiences but their own. I don’t have the experience of being fetishised in the same way as Amara, but I’ve definitely been spoken to badly by men when they realised I was from a working class background. Or they’ve seen me as a bit of “fun” before they go on to meet the middle class girl who is “wife material”. I’ve been dumped by men when they realised I didn’t have the right credentials in terms of family background. One ex explicitly told me he didn’t see a future with me because of who my father was (working class), whereas his was high up in academia.

Amara was exponentially the more interesting, powerful, intelligent and relatable character, and I’d bet the character wasn’t created by Dolly. Whoever was responsible for the creation of Amara in the writing room is probably a lot more talented than Dolly. Even though her experiences were of being a black woman in dating and carving out a career, those feelings of exclusion, of trying to fit into a world that isn’t created for you - is so relatable to so many people. There are tons of spoiled rich white girls on TV, I wish they’d made the series focus more on Amaras experiences. But we never heard from the Amaras because media is dominated by the dolly’s of the world.

 

[cee-bee]

The issues with batteries on flights isn’t new at all. I remember being a teen and being told to remove li-ion batteries from check in luggage. It’s dictated by international aviation law, not EasyJet. There’s so much to unpack in that tweet; the entitlement, the ignorance, the stupidity.

most of all, IMO it’s the ultimate proof that take away her pretentious name, her family wealth and connections and she’s no different that your local idiot ranting online.

her family money and connections completely hide all that and get her the podcasts and journalism gigs. She’s mediocre in every way and isn’t deserving of the soapbox providence has handed to her.

 

[Cloak]

I am always amazed when people are surprised with heavy drinking in London in your 20s — I have never known anyone not to drink heavily in a house share like that. It has never done me any harm

 

[queenamber]

I think she means other copies sold on eBay, not specifically hers. Classic Panda word salad.

 

[Ranter]

This thread is very interesting and I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s points. Class in the UK always seems to be glossed over yet be one of the major reasons people seem to do well. I also think it’s interesting what someone said about how there is privilege in being from London which I 100% agree with too and have observed over and over again.

However what I do feel like whilst people feeling Dolly has had a massive head start etc is completely valid I do think the systems in place which have raised Dolly up benefit from us going after her as an individual. If we’re all busy critiquing the many authors and writers who are from elite backgrounds and what they should do differently then doesn’t the publishing industry themself get to continue as they are scot free. If this criticism was directed at the publishers and media companies which consistently keep the status quo maybe they would be forced to change their approach. May sound paranoid lol but I sometimes worried this type of thing is all part of the divide and conquer the media/government do. I also don’t know if we hold middle white male authors to the same standard which is worth thinking about.

Maybe a romantic idea but I believe people will always be able to relate to aspects of each others experiences regardless of class, background, race etc as ultimately we all share similar human experiences. Although there’s lots of things unrelatable about Dolly Alderton’s life and book and a lot of it has been done before I think the commentary on the complexity of female friendships dynamics alongside the shift that happens in your twenties around priorities is something new she’s brought to the table and is worth being told. These issues I would say transcend class, I’m not saying everyone will relate to it but I’m sure various people from all different financial backgrounds will if they’ve experienced codependent friendships.

As someone in their late 20s who is single and all their friends are settling down I found the book and some of the feelings she touches on very relatable and I’m glad she wrote this book and tv show, not to say it’s remarkable or even in the same league as something like I May Destroy You but personally I think it would be a shame if the memoir hadn’t been written as it’s articulated some experiences I’ve felt but not quite been able to put into words.

 

[cee-bee]

I like this interview from Dolly The (rather mean) comment in German underneath asks who this ‘old woman’ is. Probs from like a 20 year old but to be quite honest Dolly does look older than her years? Think it’s the drinking, she has that wizened, wrinkled wine face look. Guarantee she still drinks like she describes in her 20s and it’s catching up with her

gosh Dolly is such a cliché bless her ahaha

I know about a hundred middle class girls like her who make 60s/70s vintage their personality, usually have a 70s icon they aspire to (most chose Steve Nicks but Dolly’s is obvs Nico)
Collects band tshirts
Loves to think of themselves as wild and crazy because they’ve gone out on a Tuesday night

I don’t think she looks bad at all. She looks like a woman in her 30s to me. She has quite a masculine bone structure which maybe makes her seem a little older? She doesn’t look like someone (to me anyway) who is a hardcore drinker or drug abuser.

her skin is pretty dewy and clear, she doesn’t have that tell tale puffy face, she’s got a slim figure. No dark under eye circles. Maybe Dolly is exceptionally lucky that she can drink without much obvious physical effect but I’m inclined to believe she exaggerates a bit to create an image in her head that she’s some wild bohemian party girl and that’s why she’s perpetually single.

you just *know* Dolly has had that Mandela wall tapestry with fairy lights on her wall at some point

 

[SusanMorrow87]

I'm so glad I stumbled across this thread and the other one today! Really interesting reading and made me reflect on my own feelings about Dolly and Pandora, as a huge fan of THL. When that ended at the end of last year, I was really surprised, but in hindsight I think it was a good time to go (although not sure I agree that there had been a dip in quality in its last year)- must be a fair amount of pressure to always feel you have to keep up to date with the latest books/TV/podcasts/articles etc, and it sounds like the both wanted to do other things.

I do find Dolly the more relatable one, but it was the dynamic between the two of them that I enjoyed. And the threads here have made me think about how I actually do wish they were a bit more transparent in how the podcast made money, and in particular with Pandora, agree with comments on here that her lack of true acknowledgement of her huge wealth and privilege is disappointing. She is not obliged to show us her bank statements, but I find those "at home with" spreads in interiors magazines insanely boastful and distasteful. Shoving your wealth in people's faces is never going to be my cup of tea, but then again it's what the readership of those publications clearly like and would be very much in keeping with the types of people she considers to be her peers. However, by doing so, she invites this exact kind of criticism, that I don't think she's equipped to handle.

But overall I think they're two good-hearted and kind people, and THL kept me company on many a walk and commute over the last few years. I'm usually interested in their opinions and takes on things, but again this would apply more so to Dolly. I really enjoyed her column on the benefits afforded to her by going to a private school, for example; I don't think that Pandora is comfortable with this level of public insight into her own privilege. She reminds me of Charlotte in SATC, who is just not comfortable talking about money, but is very comfortable showing off how much of it she has.

Sorry didn't mean to ramble on! Great to have discovered somewhere to put these thoughts down, though! I am really loving the new Sentimental Garbage podcast on SATC, and the dynamic between Caroline and Dolly only highlights that the one between she and Pandora was maybe getting a little stale, as Pandora and Dolly seem quite different, and Caroline and Dolly seem to have more similar personalities.

I also like the fact that Caroline is Irish, as am I, and it's nice to see Dolly get on so well with someone who isn't from upper-class English publishing circles. Now, although I don't know much about Caroline's background, she hardly strikes me as a pleb either, but still!

I would give the new podcast 9.5 out of 10- I have to deduct half a point for Caroline's snort when laughing, as it really seems like an affectation. And agree they seem to love telling each other how great they are but that is literally exactly what I do with all of my very good friends, so it's funny!

 

[Spilttea]

Reminds me of that internet slogan/might have even been a thread somewhere “is it fashionable or is she just thin?”

Do think it’s easy to get away with looking slightly unkempt and boho when you are thin /slight the key word being thin.