COVID-19 vaccine #5 and general vaccine conversation

[blueblueindigo]

So you're a COVID denier as well then, sure Jan

Sorry to barge in and be all "tattle police". but can we just stop? We've had months of this nonsense where we are all starting to turn on each other and be divisive 'pro vs anti" rather than for allowing for any nuance, and to actually place "fault" with those that have actual influence. We no longer seem to be criticising authority figures in governments, who completely politicised the vaccines and seem to focus only on the vaccine rather than general health aswell (look at Johnson's shame with free school meals in England, as if childhood nutrition also isn't greatly important to your immune system), then lets not forget we were told "masks don't work" and great PPE shortages leading to how many deaths?!

The point is, comments like yours are just an example of the public turning on each other, it allows for no critical analysis, it just makes people unwilling to hear or accept that others have different experiences and views, just in order to feel superior in whatever way.

The original "to vaccine or not vaccine" threat was meant to be a neutral space, but as others have pointed out, as soon as members spoke up in anyway about having anxiety or negative side effects, they were basically being gaslit and undermined. Some members on this threat are fully vaxxed, some are not, and that is their decision. All I know is that the scientific knowledge is constantly evolving, we never thought that "boosters" would be here, but now they are, just like we are seeing rising case numbers in some parts of the world, despite huge vaccine uptake, nor would we ever have thought that those that people went out and clapped for, are now derided as covid denier, anti vax whatnots because they are hesitant over this vaccine.

 

[Yoghurtpots]

No I am making a conclusion based on your actions lol

For a bunch who claim to be REALLY sceptical of the news, you really will defend drawing a conclusion between two events that have no suggested link

Your behaviour of doubling down and coming back to semantics and 'well technically I didn't say that' would be funny to me, if your actions only had consequences for you - but they don't, they have consequences for everyone, which is why ACTUAL EVIDENCE is really important, and you're prepared to die on this hill of defending literally fake news - like I said, GROSS behaviour

The vaccine doesn't stop the spread! How many times! Also for the people saying "I trust the science". A scientist can just as easily be bought as a politician. Which science do you trust? The mainstream science. 1000s of scientists have spoken out against it all. YouTube/insta/fb remove their content! They suppress the information so you don't have access to it. The whole point of science is to question the science. To label us for not listening to mainstream crooks is absurd. Look at the great Barrington declaration at how many scientists have signed that. Look at the 10s of 1000s of healthcare workers around the world walking out when they mandate this vaccine. These people are not "anti science", they are anti corruption! This whole thing is corrupt and I scratch my head that anyone can still not see what is going on!

 

[Purrrrrrr]

Thanks notgonnalie

Went off on one there but can't bloody stand bullies!

Just remember those same people are the ones who told us we were nuts when we said they would bring in vaccine passports. You can't argue with those who can't see what's going on in front of their noses. Pointless arguing and as for trying the guilt-tripping they learnt that from the government and media and that didn't work on us either. As for saying they dislike the government if that were true they would not be doing their work for them. These are the same people laughing at my posts when I show people have died from the vaccine then try to guilt me for posting about a child.


I believe we will be on the right side of history and we did our best to get people to see what's right under their noses. Let's give this another 6mths and come back to this thread for the told you sos until then just let them argue with themselves.
I think I'm the only full-on anti-vaxxer here? I am that way because exactly what you see being done now has been done for decades kids dying and no one will listen that so many die right after their vaccine that so many are injured when they get their vaccines.. Anti-vax for a very good reason and I am not ashamed of that, nor will I be shamed for it. There is one good thing that will come out of this absolute BS and that is the truth about vaccines.
Now for some blocking life is way to short to waste it on the blind

 

[Oohthedrama]

no it doesn’t. It just significantly reduces your chances

do you have the stats that back this up please? Genuine question

I'd need to see the proof where they monitored every single vaccinated person in the world before I'd believe that ,what we're seeing in countries with the highest vaccination rates doesn't correlate to those findings ,it's there in front of us.

some of the figures I’m seeing are extremely low when it comes to transmission, this hasn’t been the silver bullet it was marketed as, it might reduce the severity of illness in the elderly but to the younger population it’s not making a big difference

It HELPS to reduce the transmission. I don’t know why we keep focusing on the word ‘stop’ since we knew from the beginning that the vaccine was never going to be 100% effective. The vaccines helps to reduce transmission, it helps to prevent severe illness as well as death. Yes reinfections will occur as natural immunity does not last but the whole point of the vaccines, is that they protect against severe illness/death if you were to become infected.

THIS!!!!!
So why are people losing their jobs because they chose not to take the vaccine,
If they decide to take a chance and have the virus over the vaccine that’s their choice. This vaccine does not do enough to make it ok to have so many facing unemployment or being forced into taking a drug they aren’t comfortable with.
NZ are actually crazy.

vaccines are amazing, but this one is far too new to be making such extreme demands on the public.

 

[Freedomofspeech89]

Unfortunately we're living through a time where we can no longer trust the media to be honest. This is why these stories are speculated about. I remember when that poor bbc radio host Lisa Shaw died and someone mentioned it on here and got attacked. Then it turned out she did die from the vaccine. The same goes for the footballer who collapsed on the pitch. Now has myocarditis. Lisa Shaws death was only put down as the vaccine because her family demanded a private post mortem. The bbc even tried to cover it up but it was her husband who demanded it get reported. My partners school friend died after the vaccine but no one would relate it to the vaccine and so his death was just put down as unknown. He was only 35!! People are naturally going to speculate when we live in such dishonest times.

 

[Lisdiz]

Am I allowed to ask why the thread title has changed?
It’s annoying that the one place we had to converse with each other over an issue we have been concerned about is constantly derailed by people who have opposing views and wish to do nothing but act superior, derail and mock.
We get enough threats placed upon us on the daily……

 

[Cupcakemum]

I find it really unfair that this thread claims to be general vaccine talk when it is so clear these views are not welcome.

The thing is the thread was made because you dare not say that you didn't want the jab or had worries about it anywhere else on tattle, it was then merged with general vaccine chat.

Almost everyone would start their sentence here before it was merged with "I'm not anti vax, I've had all my inoculations and so have my kids".
Not one person got jumped on for taking their normal jabs. Not one person has got jumped on for being on here admitting that they've had covid jabs either, it's a respected choice.

Unfortunately the same can't always be said the other way round. It's quite clear that if you are hesitant, or just don't want the covid jab then you're called anti vax, when that really isn't true at all.

 

[VoodooChile]

"Apartheid isn't offensive" and them going straight to the holocaust comparisons very nice.

Telling people they have to have a vaccine in order to fully participate in society or live a full life is what exactly? They are being compared for a good reason, only this time the apartheid is not based on race or religion, but people’s ability to maintain bodily autonomy. For a new vaccine that will not stop you catching or spreading COVID. I’d liken it to rape actually, or sexual abuse by an employer - sleep with the boss every few months or we’ll sack you. Well I’m offended by anyone who thinks they get to decide what medical procedures I have to take. If the no jab, no job mandate comes in here, are you comfortable with that? Do you have a red line? Jacinda Arden has just happily declared she’s creating a two tier society. If you’re happy with that then that tells me all I need to know.

 

[Motherofpugs]

If I’m ever in ICU I don’t think I would care less whether a vaccinated or unvaccinated nurse was trying to save my life. Think I would care more if the ICU was understaffed and the standard of care was poorer as a result. Less likely to have your life saved then.

I remember the days when someone trying to save your life would be branded a hero. We even used to do a weekly clapping ritual for them How things have changed.

 

[Oohthedrama]

You'd hope there weren't ANY unvaccinated people working in intensive care

i respect your stance on this, however knowing the chances of passing on the virus don’t drop dramatically with the vaccine I’d argue it really makes no difference, hygiene protocols should be enough to protect both patient and staff, and I’d rather a nurse who loves their job and does it to their absolute best (who hasn’t been jabbed) to a baby monitor looking in on my loved one if they find themselves in ICU.

 

[Elizaaaaa]

Ooh this was difficult to wade through, and if I clicked on this new thread as a first time reader I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable coming back. Which is a shame because having lurked/occasionally posted since #1, I know this isn't the usual tone and I've always found this group really supportive.

Just wanted to put that out there and hope any new-ish readers who come here as they relate to the thread title make it to page 6 and aren't put off!

I was wondering about @ChineseAlan too - isn't it funny how you come to feel you really know and care for people here. That's the part that keeps me going sometimes, the empathy, concern and interest lots of us show in one another.

I don't like the personal attacks and name-calling based on a person's views or thoughts. It's unlikely we will always be right all of the time, but also we can interpret things differently, or make judgements based on our feelings rather than information. Does that make us wrong? I don't think so.

I'd agree it is unusual for a child's death to be front page news without there being either details the media know will gain interest. I can't think of the word to explain it - but a violent attack/horrible tragedy are usual headline grabbing stories aren't they? The whole point of a front page is to sell and get people speculating, regardless of your personal opinions of the story, I think it's clear it worked! My view is the papers know these questions will be asked and either know or suspect more details will come to light that will make it a bigger story, than the sad death of a child.

(Not attempting to minimise this child's death in any way, there's no way to say a "normal death" without sounding heartless, is uneventful a better word? I just mean sometimes people pass away with no obvious rhyme or reason, it's devastating for those involved and always terribly sad, but equally I don't think we expect that every single person can be born and live for a particular amount of time.)

 

[Purrrrrrr]

The fact checker links are reliable sources of information that counteract some of the wild and crazy theories being put forward here. As everyone keeps saying and as it says at the top of the page. This is not an anti vax thread. So I'm just making sure that's occasionally true.

It was never an anti-vax thread it was for those not taking the covid vaccine. I have no idea why it was changed as many people had invested in this thread. now we have people coming in trying to control what we talk about. You never say anything of worth you just goat and bait.

 

[Notgonnalie]

I spoke to someone today and they said they hadn’t had the vaccine yet and they realised today that they’re no longer unsure about whether they want it or not, they hadn’t booked to get it before now and they were just on the fence about whether they felt it was the right thing for them. She said she has felt so isolated and shit over the past 2 years that if covid killed her she wouldn’t really care because covid has taken so much of her life already. I can’t stop thinking about her. She promised she wasn’t feeling suicidal or anything she more just felt a lightbulb moment that she feels confident now in not wanting the vaccine. I’m not sure why I’m posting this but it just really hit me in a way too, we really have all lost something to covid. I am confident I don’t want the vaccine either.

 

[Yoghurtpots]

Nope, no intention of trying to convince you to get it - even though I think you should - but you're determined to use UNRELATED NEWS to justify your choices, that is literally the long and short of it, and that's why I am still here, and that's why you don't have anything to say about that, just misdirection and buzzwords

I just think it's disgusting to twist tragedy for your own, unrelated agenda and that's it really

And no I haven't 'embarrassed myself' that's literally how vaccines work but whatever

I am 33 with no health issues
Approximately 4 people my age died within 14 months (March 2020-May2021)
That is roughly 1 person every 3.5 months
I have already had covid, I have antibodies and then I will have my t-cell immunity.
Sars cov 1 was 80% identical to sars cov 2 (c19), when they tracked them down in 2020, every single one of them still had t-cell immunity. 17 years later.
There have been around 1700 vaccine deaths and over 1 million vaccine injuries in the UK so far, some say more, some say less. That is the government data though and all we have to go on.
Roughly one in 48 will have some form of adverse reaction ranging from mild to severe. Its Russian roulette.
The vaccines are experimental, mrna is new technology never been approved and neither has a coronavirus vaccine. A coronavirus is a common cold. They have never had a coronavirus vaccine approved. They tried doing one for sars cov 1 and all the animals died due to antibody dependent enhancement (ADE).
There is NO LONG TERM DATA. It could make me live forever or it could affect my brain in 2 years like the swine flu jab. It could cause a multitude of problems. Who knows.

Now for me, someone with a statistically zero chance of dying from covid, it would make no sense for me to take this vaccine. Sure some people take the risk because the minuscule chance of them dying is too much for them bare, just like some people are afraid of flying even though their chances of crashing are extremely rare. These people are usually deemed to be paranoid or anxious.
There is no good reason for me to take this vaccine. You want to know why people are refusing this vaccine well there you have it. Not everyone here is anti vax. They have declined this vax and they have every right to make that decision. Soon we will be banned from entering places because we haven't taken it and we will still not take it. There is no reason for me to take it and no amount of them threatening me will change my mind.

 

[xspace]

To reach my decision about covid jab, I considered 3 very important things:
1) My personal risks (no need to say, you can't predict the outcome, that's is obvious, but what I can predict is the POSSIBILITY of being hospitalized or dying)
2) Effectiveness of the jab and how it changes with time
3) Safety of the jab (short and long term)

I am pretty sure, almost everyone if not everyone here considered all that, there is been a lot of talking and discussions about it in the past 4 threads. Some pro-jab people jumped in and provided fair points for one area or another, still not sure what they are doing on this thread, but if they are respectful, it doesn't bother me. However, I seriously don't understand some people jumping in just to try to insult and silence us without providing anything. No discussion, just name calling and shaming if we hold different views, if these things worked on us we all would've been jabbed already

 

[Mbouzer]

If I’m ever in ICU I don’t think I would care less whether a vaccinated or unvaccinated nurse was trying to save my life. Think I would care more if the ICU was understaffed and the standard of care was poorer as a result. Less likely to have your life saved then.

I remember the days when someone trying to save your life would be branded a hero. We even used to do a weekly clapping ritual for them How things have changed.

I worked during the first lockdown in healthcare, patient facing, unvaccinated and up until I was 37 weeks pregnant and people were quite happy to receive care, didn’t bat an eyelid infact, quite happy to hide at home while we kept services running. Remember this was during the first wave when the virus was the most deadly. But now I’m dirty and unvaccinated? It just doesn’t make sense how people can change their way of thinking suddenly especially when we have the data now to show the vaccine does not stop you from catching and transmitting the disease. Its only beneficial for the person receiving it, nobody else.

 

[Brigitjonesbuttcheek]

So if they restrict only the unvaccinated, and cases continue to rise, what then? Who will they blame?
Will they lock down the vaccinated?

I just feel like where does it ends. At some point they're gonna have to just say fuck it, lets just create infrastructure to deal with the sick and then let everyone else get on with their lives.

It feels to me that world leaders can't just accept the tactic they used didn't work, the vaccine doesn't really work as well as wanted. They keep pushing down this road instead of admitting they were wrong and trying something else.

 

[blueblueindigo]

Look if y'all are perfectly happy using the death of a girl to further your anti COVID vax cause - even though there's no evidence or even suggestion that they're linked AT ALL - then I clearly can't make you see why that is wrong

But what I am allowed to do is tell you it's wrong, and try REALLY hard to explain why, so hopefully anyone lurking will be able to see at least one person try to cut through your wild accusations and not get swept up in the hysterical posts

If you post bullshit, you may have to defend it - who knew that actions have consequences eh!

I haven't seen that post, sorry, but I do question why a child's death is in the media at all? I'm just trying to see the bigger picture and how this "us vs them" mentality has increasingly thrived on social media in regards to the vaccine. On reddit for example, you have members literally celebrate and mock those who have died of Covid and haven't been vaccinated.

The point is, this thread is a seemingly safe space for members to discuss their experiences with the vaccine that weren't positive, hesitancy alongside outright refusal. This wasn't allowed in the "main" thread, and since then there is an "anti conspiracy" thread where people can post that they think anyone who isn't comfortable yet with this vaccine must be some "Bill Gates is going to plant a micro-chip in my body and the government is pro- eugenics" type. On the main covid thread I've seen so many posts of people saying that they won't follow restrictions now they have had the vaccine, despite this still posing risk, so many people jetting off on holiday... where is the name-calling and vitriol for that (not that there should be, but it's a bit hypocritical)

 

[Cupcakemum]

Calling it apartheid is deeply offensive to victims of actual racism and apartheid.

Apartheid is just a word. It's literally meaning is 'to separate'. You can have any kind of Apartheid - this is medical apartheid

 

[Purrrrrrr]

Haha ok. Well actually this one IS experimental and YOU are the lab rat. mRNA technology has never been used before in humans and a coronavirus vaccine has never been given either! So in the strongest sense of the word, it IS an experiment. Keep believing the government and fact checkers who are paid by the pharma industry to tell you that its not. Or actually, use your own brain and think for yourself. Lets just hope there are no long term complications for you, you know because you are taking a new drug that there is no long term data on.

People keep saying it's not experimental so they must also be saying they knew what was going to happen to womens' periods, men's libido and testes, that other people were going to die from clots, bad hearts etc

IMO They are so angry at us because they got fooled into taking a vaccine that was never needed and that no one knows what the long term effects will be.