People saying why didn’t they just get her sectioned obviously have no idea how difficult that is. In A&E I’ve seen many people in crisis, who have tried to take their own lives and 99% of them are sent home with community follow up (which is normally a phone call from a mental health worker).
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They assessed her in the hospital as no risk to herself or others. She told them she didn’t have suicidal ideation. Her family and friends tried to get her to get help but she refused it.
She had made several ‘attempts on her life’ from the time she was a teenager but as she didn’t ever try really hard (she ended up in A&E multiple times but never did herself any lasting damage), I’d imagine no one thought she‘d ever really go through with it.
I know people who have tried to overdose and have lifelong damage from it.
She had made several ‘attempts on her life’ from the time she was a teenager but as she didn’t ever try really hard (she ended up in A&E multiple times but never did herself any lasting damage), I’d imagine no one thought she‘d ever really go through with it.
I know people who have tried to overdose and have lifelong damage from it.
Sorry I didn’t mean to question that intention of what she actually said, I don’t doubt it was intended to manipulate if true. I meant that it’s another big flaw in her mum’s argument as she argues the bail conditions banning her from contacting him contributed to her decline. But she was contacting him anyway so that was clearly a lie?
I am very sorry that you have experienced such trauma by the way
sending love xx
It was around the time of her inquest. I can't give you a direct link but it definitely exists because I read it. I'll admit I was quite surprised as I'd expected her to have taken something.
I've been the family member desperately pleading for help in A&E to keep a relative alive because we were exhausted trying to manage it ourselves. Your post describes our experience. Although at least the Crisis Team did do a home visit couple of days later (they were very good).
Caroline had the luxury though of many private clinics/hospitals to choose from in London.
ive lit called samaritans many times and told my hospital dr my feelings and not once had a follow up call/appt with any medical people
As several people have experienced, it's hard to impossible to get help when the person in difficulty is screaming out for it. From what I can tell, Caroline wasn't really engaging despite having struggled for years. She'd told the police she had no history of mental health problems, was seeing someone for her 'issues with relationships', but not her general mental health and continued to drink and possibly take substances.
This is exactly what people mean when they say that (in most cases) nobody else is responsible when someone takes their own life. Depression/suicidal ideation is a horrible hole to climb out of and it's hard but ultimately, nobody but the person experiencing it can do it. All their family and friends can do is offer support, and no matter how hard they try, sometimes that's not enough.
By the way, believing that Caroline was guilty of domestic violence doesn't equate to not thinking her death was a tragedy, because it really was. I just think it's extremely unfair to blame her partner for calling the police - he did the right thing, and nobody regardless of gender should be encouraged to believe that they should hide abuse because doing otherwise might cause harm to the abuser. That's how people end up seriously hurt or dead.
This is exactly what people mean when they say that (in most cases) nobody else is responsible when someone takes their own life. Depression/suicidal ideation is a horrible hole to climb out of and it's hard but ultimately, nobody but the person experiencing it can do it. All their family and friends can do is offer support, and no matter how hard they try, sometimes that's not enough.
By the way, believing that Caroline was guilty of domestic violence doesn't equate to not thinking her death was a tragedy, because it really was. I just think it's extremely unfair to blame her partner for calling the police - he did the right thing, and nobody regardless of gender should be encouraged to believe that they should hide abuse because doing otherwise might cause harm to the abuser. That's how people end up seriously hurt or dead.
This is what I don’t understand when I worked in supported housing and someone tried to commit suicide they were automatically taken to a secure unit at the local hospital and assessed.
Things have changed since then, sadly.
I think it also depends on the trust. It's a postcode lottery on what help you receive due to so many being oversubscribed.
Yeah, but the assessment doesn't always mean someone will end up sectioned, which most of the time is a good thing. It *shouldn't* be really easy to section someone - I just think the balance has swung too far in the opposite direction now, where people who really desperately need help can't get it.
The threshold is wildly high in some trusts now unfortunately. The last one i worked in during covid it had risen to 3 'credible' attempts before being sectioned, and someone phoning the crisis line was looking at weeks for a virtual app/phone call.
Thats irrelevant tho.. you could, would, should but... if your mind is so fragile... Can you?
I’m well aware of how it works due to personal experience thank you. I’m not sure how pointing out catastrophic failures in the system = not understanding how it works. The entire system is designed to fail and we can recognise that fact whilst also recognising that she should have been sectioned. Caroline is one of thousands/millions failed by the system. Clearly her psych assessment was entirely wrong, and I’m sure the same goes for many that you have seen in your A&E department. Just because it’s common doesn’t make it right.
And this goes to show exactly how the system is designed to fail people. If you’ve slit your wrists you’re clearly at risk of harming yourself, regardless of what you tell them. If you’ve assaulted someone, you’re clearly at risk of harming others. The idea of “oh they won’t go through with it” is exactly why so many die every single day. It’s devastating and it’s a real pandemic but no one wants to actually talk about it, they just post #bekind on mental health day and move on.
Look how many of us on this thread alone have the same experience. It’s horrific. You’re not alone
I think it’s really hard for really limited MH resources. Bluntly if you’ve ’tried‘ multiple times but haven’t succeeded then you’re into boy who cried wolf territory. If you’ve got resource for supporting one person and you’ve got a choice between one who has made one very serious, nearly successful attempt vs someone who’s made numerous not very serious ones, it’s pretty easy to see where you’re going to direct resource. And there may also have been a bit of ‘well you can afford to get help so why they hell aren’t you going on’. I’m not saying it’s right but NHS resources are stretched to breaking point. Arguably in the part of London where she lives (where I used to live), there will have been people in much greater crisis than her that evening.
When I tried to commit suicide I was left sitting in the waiting room at A&E alone, after 4 hours of sitting there I went to the reception and said I’m leaving, they said ok and let me, no questions asked. My sis in law was waiting for me at home (my neighbour had found me and called the ambulance) and had she not been there I would defo made another attempt. No one followed up with me after. I’m on an antidepressant now which works for me and I have made huge changes in my life, still struggle at times but yeah, that was my experience.
I think any attempt on your own life should be treated as “serious” though I do understand your point of prioritising and agree with you. The NHS is overwhelmed we all know it, it’s just beyond inhumane that people have to lose their lives over it -not just through suicide but disease too.