Calories on menus

[Mamacita]

the interesting thing about good vs bad food is that Europeans who seemingly have little issues with obesity especially among kids is that they dont eat notoriously healthily either (besides maybe the med). The Germans certainly don’t. It’s mostly processed meat, bread and cheese from my experience. The noticeable difference I would say is that they have significantly (and from my own experiences of living there I mean significantly!!!) less fast food restaurants and take away outlets than we do.

I think it is changing now as well and obesity rates increasing in those countries. Years ago, take aways weren't as much of a thing in some countries, but they are now and you can definitely see a lot more really overweight people, including kids.

Obviously not every country will have the same diet but, while they eat a lot of processed meats etc like you said, I find there is a lot less deep fried stuff as well and also only one heavy meal per day, while e.g. in the UK people can easily have a fry up for breakfast, chips for lunch, and a takeaway for dinner. Also fruit and veg is really not as good as in some other countries in Europe

 

[gossiplovexx]

I wonder what the phycological difference between the calories being on food labels in the supermarket to restaurants?

I don't check calories in the supermarket but then I sat at Wagamas a few weeks ago feeling horrific for wanting a katsu curry and then eating one?

Maybe because they have always been on food labels but then on a menu they are unexpected?

 

[shadowcat5]

I think it is changing now as well and obesity rates increasing in those countries. Years ago, take aways weren't as much of a thing in some countries, but they are now and you can definitely see a lot more really overweight people, including kids.

Obviously not every country will have the same diet but, while they eat a lot of processed meats etc like you said, I find there is a lot less deep fried stuff as well and also only one heavy meal per day, while w.g. in the UK people can easily have a fry up for breakfast, chips for lunch, and a takeaway for dinner. Also fruit and veg is really not as good as in some other countries in Europe

I think it's slowly creeping but if I remember rightly (I did this as a presentation in uni) we were 3rd behind turkey and malta.

 

[ToxicPony]

I like that nutrition score idea!

I also liked using noom for calorie counting as it also tracks how many nutrient dense vs calorie dense foods you eat. It labels them red, yellow green and whereas anything is technically allowed, it gives you a proposed allowance of each, so eat as much green food as you like within daily calories, limit red food to say 300 cals a day.

Sort of a combination of calorie counting and a more scientific Slimming World I guess.

 

[shadowcat5]

I wonder what the phycological difference between the calories being on food labels in the supermarket to restaurants?

I don't check calories in the supermarket but then I sat at Wagamas a few weeks ago feeling horrific for wanting a katsu curry and then eating one?

Maybe because they have always been on food labels but then on a menu they are unexpected?

I think you could be right. Also in a supermarket it is one item unless it's a ready meal and usually a serving per x amount, whereas a menu is calories for a whole meal?

 

[ToxicPony]

I also play a mind game with myself where I will get a 500 calorie panini, then tell myself that taking off the 3 sliced tomatoes has definitely removed at least 150 of those.

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

I do think there needs to be more education on food and cooking in general.
The amount of people that think spag bol comes from a jar or curry comes from a ready meal or chips come from the freezer is shocking really.

I work with a 30 year old who only eats plain ham butties, crisps, waffles, chicken dippers & mcdonalds. She admits she can’t cook and is quite proud of it.

One of the best life skills is knowing how to cook. It doesn’t need to be complex, a simple curry, spag bol or roast dinner would suffice.

 

[philopastry75]

It seems to be mostly the combination of carbs and fat. The issue is, calories still determine whether you put on weight and fat has 9 kcal per gram versus 4 kcal for carbohydrates, so it's easier to eat a lot more calories through eating fat. But the combination of both makes food very palatable so easy to eat a lot of it.

Agree and maybe too much protein without reducing the carbs as well. Again, contrary to what the health industry tries to tell us, in the UK we consume more than our recommended values for protein and excess protein is converted and stored as fat in the body.

Nutrition is very interesting and I think an emerging science, I reckon we'll end up with personalised/ genetic nutrition eventually rather than the one size fits all thing we have going on now.

I do think there needs to be more education on food and cooking in general.
The amount of people that think spag bol comes from a jar or curry comes from a ready meal or chips come from the freezer is shocking really.

I work with a 30 year old who only eats plain ham butties, crisps, waffles, chicken dippers & mcdonalds. She admits she can’t cook and is quite proud of it.

One of the best life skills is knowing how to cook. It doesn’t need to be complex, a simple curry, spag bol or roast dinner would suffice.

I couldn't agree more, education is key here and it's just not happening. It should be from primary age, stuff on nutrition and also food preparation and cooking. It's an essential life skill. I grew up having jar pasta sauces and curries and I will on occasion have those but my husband cooked, his mum cooked and she taught him and he taught me. Now I'm the cook 90% of the time so it's not like I was incapable, I just hadn't learned how. If I'd met someone with an upbringing more like me then maybe I'd still be jar cooking, who knows. What I do know if that my school aged children ranging from year 10 to year 2 have been taught very little about healthy eating or food preparation and that's x 3 different schools.

 

[Blueballs]

If you're slim and you deliberately choose a mean you won't enjoy because it's healthier and spent the meal disappointed that of your own free will you chose to order something that you knew you wouldn't enjoy then I think it's time to take some personal responsibility.

 

[gossiplovexx]

If you're slim and you deliberately choose a mean you won't enjoy because it's healthier and spent the meal disappointed that of your own free will you chose to order something that you knew you wouldn't enjoy then I think it's time to take some personal responsibility.

Completely disagree. It’s more than just a personal thing otherwise you could say the same about people being obese?

 

[ToxicPony]

Completely disagree. It’s more than just a personal thing otherwise you could say the same about people being obese?

Also disagree, as it doesn't take into account all of the psychological pitfalls of diet culture that have been detailed on this thread.

Also, what is the point of the numbers on the menus unless to make people choose differently? Surely that was the entire intention.

 

[Mamacita]

Also disagree, as it doesn't take into account all of the psychological pitfalls of diet culture that have been detailed on this thread.

Also, what is the point of the numbers on the menus unless to make people choose differently? Surely that was the entire intention.

Yes it's to make people aware of what they're eating, but people still need to take personal responsibility. If you're not overweight then you're likely to be eating reasonable amount so one meal is not going to make much difference.

I see people mention diet culture so much but the bottom line is that obesity is a much bigger problem in society than diet culture

 

[philopastry75]

I see people mention diet culture so much but the bottom line is that obesity is a much bigger problem in society than diet culture

I don’t think these two things are exclusive of one another, I think one is a symptom of the other but like the chicken and egg debate- it’s difficult to determine which one came first. It’s no coincidence that as diet culture increases, obesity does too. Like I mentioned previously, a lot of what we’re seeing now is linked to the fallacy that fat is bad and makes you obese.

We call diseases linked to obesity metabolic syndrome and science is increasingly pointing towards these having a hormonal element. The cause of those hormonal imbalances isn’t just caused by too many calories, it’s where those calories are coming from. It’s like the tit saying that ‘a calorie is a calorie regardless of where it comes from’, it is so much more complicated than that.

 

[Mamacita]

I don’t think these two things are exclusive of one another, I think one is a symptom of the other but like the chicken and egg debate- it’s difficult to determine which one came first. It’s no coincidence that as diet culture increases, obesity does too. Like I mentioned previously, a lot of what we’re seeing now is linked to the fallacy that fat is bad and makes you obese.

We call diseases linked to obesity metabolic syndrome and science is increasingly pointing towards these having a hormonal element. The cause of those hormonal imbalances isn’t just caused by too many calories, it’s where those calories are coming from. It’s like the tit saying that ‘a calorie is a calorie regardless of where it comes from’, it is so much more complicated than that.

Sorry but completely disagree. I would like to see what evidence is pointing to that. Because the fact is that calories in calories out is always correct and that obesity is coinciding with the availability of highly processed, highly palatable foods. Agree it's complicated and agree it matters for health where calories are coming from, but calories still determine whether someone will lose or put on weight.

Not sure what you're suggesting by saying that as diet culture increases so does obesity.

 

[emm]

Nutrition is very interesting and I think an emerging science, I reckon we'll end up with personalised/ genetic nutrition eventually rather than the one size fits all thing we have going on now.


I couldn't agree more, education is key here and it's just not happening. It should be from primary age, stuff on nutrition and also food preparation and cooking. It's an essential life skill. I grew up having jar pasta sauces and curries and I will on occasion have those but my husband cooked, his mum cooked and she taught him and he taught me. Now I'm the cook 90% of the time so it's not like I was incapable, I just hadn't learned how. If I'd met someone with an upbringing more like me then maybe I'd still be jar cooking, who knows. What I do know if that my school aged children ranging from year 10 to year 2 have been taught very little about healthy eating or food preparation and that's x 3 different schools.

Exactly, basic cooking is much more of a lifeskill than compulsory maths I would say . I have always liked cooking so kind of taught myself, but i was shocked when I went to uni for the first time how many people couldn't even boil and egg much less make a meal. We did cooking at school but didn't learn anything useful imo, we learned to make choux pastry but not a basic pasta sauce for example.

About the calories on menus thing, someone I know was talking to friends in the hospitality industry adn at the beginning of this they noticed certain high calorie things weren't selling, so they apparently put certain things on the menu with even higher calorie ones to make it seem less in comparison

 

[philopastry75]

Sorry but completely disagree. I would like to see what evidence is pointing to that. Because the fact is that calories in calories out is always correct and that obesity is coinciding with the availability of highly processed, highly palatable foods. Agree it's complicated and agree it matters for health where calories are coming from, but calories still determine whether someone will lose or put on weight.

Not sure what you're suggesting by saying that as diet culture increases so does obesity.

I’m said they were directly linked.

I’ll dig out some recent studies and reviews when I’m on the laptop and can access journal libraries and share.

 

[shadowcat5]

Yes it's to make people aware of what they're eating, but people still need to take personal responsibility. If you're not overweight then you're likely to be eating reasonable amount so one meal is not going to make much difference.

I see people mention diet culture so much but the bottom line is that obesity is a much bigger problem in society than diet culture

i think they’re one of the same problem. obesity is major problem in terms of stress on the NHS and healthy related issues but ultimately, both that and diet culture involve an unhealthy relationship with food which imo is causing the obesity problem.
There is evidence to suggest that those who crash diet end up more overweight in the long term. I don’t think it’s accurate to say that every obese person hasn’t tried some sort of diet and has just shovelled food into their mouth without a care.

I personally think we have a terrible relationship with food in this country along with a ton of other issues and whether that’s diet culture or obesity, we as a society imo should look at the sources of the problem. I’m no scientist, behavioural expert or government official so my opinion has very little credibility but I personally think that whilst calories on the menu is great, it’s essentially a finger plaster over a busted up damn in the grand scheme.

 

[emm]

Sorry but completely disagree. I would like to see what evidence is pointing to that. Because the fact is that calories in calories out is always correct and that obesity is coinciding with the availability of highly processed, highly palatable foods. Agree it's complicated and agree it matters for health where calories are coming from, but calories still determine whether someone will lose or put on weight.

Not sure what you're suggesting by saying that as diet culture increases so does obesity.

I think there is lots of evidence that diet culture from the 1980s started to promote low fat as good, then often taking out fat and raising sugar in things like yoghurt instead, which has been a total disaster for nutrition generally

i think they’re one of the same problem. obesity is major problem in terms of stress on the NHS and healthy related issues but ultimately, both that and diet culture involve an unhealthy relationship with food which imo is causing the obesity problem.
There is evidence to suggest that those who crash diet end up more overweight in the long term. I don’t think it’s accurate to say that every obese person hasn’t tried some sort of diet and has just shovelled food into their mouth without a care.

I personally think we have a terrible relationship with food in this country along with a ton of other issues and whether that’s diet culture or obesity, we as a society imo should look at the sources of the problem. I’m no scientist, behavioural expert or government official so my opinion has very little credibility but I personally think that whilst calories on the menu is great, it’s essentially a finger plaster over a busted up damn in the grand scheme.

agreed, I also think healthier food needs to be subsidised somehow, one of the things I noticed when I first lived in other countries in continental europe was how cheap vegetables and fruit were compared to here. Obviously that is because they are laregly local in warmer countries but something needs to be done to make healthier food more affordable

 

[Mamacita]

I think there is lots of evidence that diet culture from the 1980s started to promote low fat as good, then often taking out fat and raising sugar in things like yoghurt instead, which has been a total disaster for nutrition generally


agreed, I also think healthier food needs to be subsidised somehow, one of the things I noticed when I first lived in other countries in continental europe was how cheap vegetables and fruit were compared to here. Obviously that is because they are laregly local in warmer countries but something needs to be done to make healthier food more affordable

I agree that everything low fat is not the best, but the yoghurt thing is a myth imo. I've been comparing nutrition labels for years and don't actually see many low fat yoghurts etc that are higher in sugar. Ultimately fat has so many more calories than protein or carbs so it's just easier to eat way more by eating fat. As I mentioned before, it's the combination of fat and carbs that seems to be the worst. Think about all the tasty food that it's so easy to eat too much of: chocolate, ice cream, pizza, crisps, chips- all combination of fat and carbs.

Carbs on their own are medium tasty. Add fat and so easy to eat a ton of it

 

[emm]

I agree that everything low fat is not the best, but the yoghurt thing is a myth imo. I've been comparing nutrition labels for years and don't actually see many low fat yoghurts etc that are higher in sugar. Ultimately fat has so many more calories than protein or carbs so it's just easier to eat way more by eating fat. As I mentioned before, it's the combination of fat and carbs that seems to be the worst. Think about all the tasty food that it's so easy to eat too much of: chocolate, ice cream, pizza, crisps, chips- all combination of fat and carbs.

Carbs on their own are medium tasty. Add fat and so easy to eat a ton of it

It has changed because people are more aware of it now, I cannot eat yoghurt now as I cannot eat dairy but when I did eat greek yooghurt the lower fat ones had higher sugar contents. Also it is proven that fat and protein fill you up whereas sugar and just carbs don't. Obviously eating loads of fried food etc isn't the same as eating full fat milk or cheese though.

As has been said though it is really complicated. Not sure it has been mentioned, but in Dutch schools they have weigh ins regularly for students at school and if they are overwweight a nutritionist will go to their hosuse to talk to the parents, what do we think about this?