Armie Hammer - so many kinks, so little time

[thegirlscout]

These are so horrendous just to warn you. But this feels so wrong that it should be illegal? He’s not even denying it and it’s been a few days so I would hazard a guess that this is all true...

 

[PeteM]

Stop, Hammer. Time.

 

[greenvelvet]

There's a really good podcast episode by Lalalaletmeexplain with Eve from We Can't Consent to This which discusses exactly this issue - where violent sexual behaviour is wrapped up in cotton wool and disguised as kinky behaviour. BIG trigger warning for violence - WCCT was started in light of the Natalie Connolly case - a 26 y/o mum* who was killed by her multi-millionaire property-developer boyfriend. He claimed successfully that her death was a result of a "BDSM sex game gone wrong". She had 40 injuries, including serious internal trauma (such as vaginal and arterial bleeding), a fractured eye socket and bleach sprayed all over her face. When he called the police to report her death, he said "she's as dead as a donut" - but not before walking down the stairs, stepping over her body, having breakfast and cleaning his car. And he got 3 years and 8 months for manslaughter... 45% of cases like this where men use the rough sex defense do so successfully. The podcast is available for free on Spotify, Soundcloud and Apple Podcasts

For this reason I CBA when people's first response to violence in sex is to complain about kink-shaming. I like a bit of consensual this and that but I would have to be smoking crack to think that me feeling "shamed" has got anywhere near as much importance as someone dying like this and the culprit getting away with it. Complaining about feeling shamed is not an appropriate response to calls to make a potentially lethal dynamic safe. Hopefully nobody tries to use that argument with this Armie Hammer cannibalism and rape stuff

*her being a young mum of a young kid doesn't make this more morally wrong, it's just that young mums are treated with more respect than say sex workers or generic 'sidechicks', so if a court accepted that she was into it, God knows what they'd accept if it happened to women they view with less sympathy

 

[The Devils Arse]

Hardly offensive, when the actually disturbing things are so much worse than that simple word!!


I read some tea on LSA and apparently Elizabeth would contact his whores often and block them on his channels and sometimes pretend she's him breaking up with them. No clue how accurate, but was interesting.

Please don't call these women whores. From what has been said so far they have been manipulated emotionally and physically abused by this cretin. Yes they shouldn't have got involved with a married man, but he's the married one.

 

[Very traditional]

Jesus Christ! He's finished, there's no coming back from this (and there shouldn't be!)

 

[vikka]

I don't know any of you personally or beyond your posts here, but I am sincerely glad you all managed to escape your abusers, grow stronger and/or shut the door at the right time (your stories were all varying degrees of this).

Further, to all members here, contributors and anonymous readers, I really really hope you find the strength to ditch your abusive bastards, they are not worth your time and not worthy of you.
You can and will do better.

Better to be single, but happy and content, than together with an abusive fck and miserable and depressed as hell and in pain.

 

[Falkor]

Has anyone been unnerved while reading all this that they have seen some of these traits in someone they know/once knew?

Yes, my ex-husband. He mentioned something about being a 'Master' right at the beginning of our relationship, I shrugged it off and said I wasn't into that, and thought that was the end of it. But once we got married, after living together for three years, he became more and more controlling and I got more and more worn down by it, until I hit 30, had a bit of an epiphany, and told him I wanted a divorce. Which did not go down well, but I got rid of the bugger eventually. After we split up he went full-on BDSM lifestyle. One of our mutual friends once contacted me in horror to say he'd put a 'seeking' advert up on FetLife looking for a maschoistic submissive that contained the words 'You will need to ensure you have someone to take care of you for a few days after you leave. The only thing I can promise you is that you won't be hospitalised.' I heard last year he'd died of a heart attack at 55 and I can't say I was sorry.

 

[ManicMayz]

The rebranding of sexual violence as "kink" and loving, pleasurable sex as "vanilla" disgusts me. It's so nefarious. So manipulative.
Wanting to rape, to maim, to cause suffering, pain and fear is not a kink. Kink shaming? Desiring those things should make you ashamed and that shame should make you reassess and get help before you fucking hurt someone.

 

[Codswallop]

Am I the only one who has zero time for the 'don't kink shame' argument - not just here but in general. Too many men use it as an excuse to hurt women. Hammer is an abuser.

 

[PepsiCherry]

is anyone else into kink here? bc I definitely think his messages were extreme but there’s a lot of people who would be into that and idk... I guess assuming it’s all consensual it doesn’t really seem that bad to me?

Cannibalism and wanting to physically hurt someone like that (not like its a spank etc !!) is not a fkn kink.

 

[tarotbaby]

I am going to get flayed alive for this comment but here goes... I work as a social worker in a pretty deprived area that sees a lot of violence, sexual assault etc. I hear a lot of, what turn out to be true accusations. I hear a lot of, what turn out to be false accusations. I’ve been doing this for almost 25 years so you learn the ‘tells’ of false accusations. There are Armie victims I believe and victims I don’t. One in particular has ticked 80% of the false allegation boxes. A lot of the statements we see are written down, so wording, phrasing etc is important. We see patterns again and again.

I do believe that some of the people posting allegations are not true...what we find, especially working with young people, is that the attention a true accuser garners, results in false accusers wanting the same attention. This happens A LOT, with siblings, friends, people who read about incidents in the media. Historic case studies of ‘good looking’ murderers shows us that false tip offs, false accusations are common and only serve to distract police from the case.

I believe that this man is very dangerous. I don’t believe ALL these accusers are genuine. Unfortunately, and I have seen this happen in real life, offline, the guilty person KNOWS exactly who with, where and when the true incidents happened. He KNOWS which ones are not true and the untrue ones that can’t be proven, in a lot of cases will unravel and undermine the legal case against the guilty party. It is one of the most frustrating things I see in my job.

Lastly, be wary of anyone posting anonymously online. A lot of people are comparing this to the Harvey Weinstein case...the glaring difference is the anonymity of the accusers. This didn’t happen with Weinstein accusations. Which is odd because he was infinitely more powerful than AH.

For this case to go anywhere, these women need to press charges. The accuser number is not insignificant, so their case would be strong, especially with all the evidence they have. It throws up some red flags to me, that nobody, not one of these people have filed a police report about any of it, and only one person is using their real name. Even in the Weinstein case with payouts and NDAs, the vocal accusers filed police reports.

I see comments of people frustrated that the media haven’t commented much (other than the Paige stories) regarding the AH situation and instead are posting about him being dropped from films. It’s because they can’t. It’s dangerous for them to post unsubstantiated stories from anonymous people on the internet as they would get sued immediately. It’s the same with non-famous people too. As soon as police reports are made, the papers will write about it and it will make progress.

 

[Silverback]

To those saying that these girls are just hurt ex’s- NO. Just no.

Have you ever been in an abusive relationship? The other person break you down and manipulate you and confuse your brain until you end up a compliant empty shell.

Why did I stay with my ex for another 6 months after he raped me? Because he manipulated me into thinking everything was my fault. Why did I stay with him for a total of three years despite him constantly making fun of me, being cruel and cheating on me? Because he made me feel I was being unreasonable and making a fuss about nothing.

and when that relationship finally ended and I saw it all for what it was I was raging, furious at him for how he had treated me and the injustice of it all. I see so much of that in Effie- the desperation to be heard and believed.

so please pause and save your judgement. Be kind.

 

[PepsiCherry]

Trigger warning abusibe relationship ******

This is all horrific. Horrific.

From 19 to 23 I was in an abusive relationship. Heavily abusive. I was a confident girl before I met him.
After we broke up ( I didn't before cause he said he would kill me. He cheated), it took me 10 months to tell my GP I felt depressed.

At 27 I finally reached boiling point. I rang a colleague in the hospital I work in and she assessed me. I went to my GP later that day and entered a psychiatric hospital for 12 weeks. I was so blessed my parents have money and looked after it. It changed my life. It is bizzare feeling like me again. I dont know what that is but it's nice.

My abuser ruined my life. I had a boyfriend since then for 2 years and was never comfy. I haven't had penetrative sex since we broke up when I was 23. I just can't. I'm actually starting sex therapy next week and I am dreading it. But at the same time its the last "piece to be sorted" in a way. I can trust people thankfully though.

He tore bits slowly from me and now they're coming back. He now owns no pieces of me.

This was a normal 23 year old lad. Not a Hollywood actor. Can't imagine what those girls are going through and all I feel for them is pure rage.

This case and the similar stories shared here are so upsetting. I was listening to a podcast on a famous murder in Ireland and it made me think of this. It's the murder of Elaine O'Hara if anyone wants to look it up. She met a wealthy married architect on a BDSM site. He was into stabbing, like it sexually aroused him. Anyway without going into too much detail because it's so devastatingly sad, he ended up murdering her and he went to an awful lot of effort to hide her body and played happy normal husband with his wife and kids for years afterwards. The wife said in court their sex life wasn't abnormal at all, she had no idea what he was really like. Just struck a few cords with this.

Even if AM didn't go that far with these women, he was obviously out of control and did not give a fuck about their wellbeing. I think BDSM and even rape play is fine if you're into it and everyone's 100% on board but there's a duty of care that has to be respected. He obviously didn't care about anyone but himself.

I really hope Ronan Farrow is looking into it. It deserves serious investigation. Post-MeToo, there's no excuses now.

And like Armie, Graham went after her cause she was mentally very unwell. All she wanted was a boyfriend and to be loved. Literally the only thing that was on the news at the time here and it was on the BBC, Sky News everyday around when he was convicted.

 

[Moobiemoo]

This isn’t BDSM it’s abuse dressed up as a kink, many women have died at the hands of men under the guise of BDSM when it’s pure rape and murder fantasy gone too far. It is really hard to comprehend how women (and men) can get this far sucked in but he’s invested a lot of time into these ‘kittens’ controlling them and isolating them, usually young women who are exploring BDSM themselves and initially don’t realise that he’s not even following it until they are very scared of him and have been hurt and financially ruined - I don’t know why it makes it more sick, but it kind of does. He is so rich but demanded they pay out all their money on flights hotels and apartments, to then not show up! Total humiliation

I do not fancy him but visually he is obviously physically attractive, he’s 6’5, good body, blue eyes and movie star looks, some kind of charming demeanour, probably quite authoritative with a deep voice - if aged 19 or 20 this drop dead looker off a movie star showed interest in you and seemed nice it makes sense

 

[Moobiemoo]

Yes they fall into it for lots of reasons.

I have been in an abusive relationship (not to this degree) but I was on the outside a sensible normal person reasonably successful but years of low level neglect and physical abuse from my parents as a child meant that I was more attracted to men who were unpleasant. My barriers were down and I didn’t understand it was abuse until I was nearly broken. You think it is love. Movies and TV doesn’t help. Nor social media, all the things you see growing up about relationships is confusing, if you don’t see it modelled or it’s never talked about what is healthy or normal, you will not know until it’s too late and you have found out the hard way. Therapy taught me I didn’t love or value myself as no one else had so I didn’t know what it was. It doesn’t just happen to you. You aren’t born knowing your full self worth to hang onto it for life, it’s taught and shown to you. And sometimes it isn’t... and sometimes it’s taken away from you on purpose

If you ever read the shark tank analogy it’s correct... men who are predators (the shark) will walk around rattling the bars of shark cages. Women (or men) who have good self esteem and self worth have strong cages, these predators back off as no point - their cages are well maintained and sturdy. They go up to them in a bar or on a DM and the woman (or man) gets a bad vibe and doesn’t reciprocate interest.

But then they find one that’s all rusty and in poor condition, they rattle it and see that the contents are easily accessible...
predators like AH have been rattling many cages and swooping in on these women using his dazzling looks and dashing charm. Then when he has them hooked into his ego, he slowly abused them more and more. Now he’s out of control because it worked so well he doesn’t really have to try to impress these girls anymore, he’s got them to be his ‘slaves’ and do anything

Push-pull is his tactic. Love bomb and withdraw. Will leave you thinking you did something wrong, desperate for him to come back to you. You hate him but can’t bear he’s left you..

 

[vikka]

The only reason I think there may be more to it than that is that his reps have dumped him. They must know some shit is about to hit the fan, as his family are very rich and powerful.
Also, I don't think it was disputed that it was consensual. The problem for me is that he was trawling his young fandom for girls when he had a duty of care as an older man and a famous person who they thought they knew. Its bad enough if he was getting them into 'normal' sex acts, but to get them into violent BDSM when they had limited sexual experiences and weren't in the BDSM community is problematic to say the least.

And when he went beyond agreed upon points and they were left scarred physically and psychologically and needed medical care.

You just can't call this "kink gone wrong".

I mean jeez people get into relationships, one of them turns out to be a POS abuser but hooks the victim in. Is that also "nothing to really see, they were voluntarily together with the POS, it's just communication/relationship gone wrong".

He belittled them, gaslit them, etc.
If that is a mere "kink gone wrong"... yikes.
Murder victims have been said to just be victims of "kink gone wrong".

How can it even go wrong with safewords and aftercare?
Just no.

 

[Hannah199220]

Tbh Depp didn't have a history of abuse as far as I gathered, whereas Amber did with previous partners, was arrested etc.
They were vile to each other, thoroughly toxic relationship.
This is one instance though where I can see why Amber received more blame by fans than Depp.
Depp's career took more of a hit than Amber's, even though (afaik) Depp has no history prior but Amber was known for such behaviour (i.e. domestic abuse).

Don’t want to derail the thread but I’m a lawyer in the UK and...want to clarify a few things. 1) Amber’s ex partner came forward saying that Amber should have never had a domestic violence act filed against her and the police at the time were being very homophobic. The ex also stated that while they had heated arguments Amber was never physically, emotionally or financially abusive towards her or anyone else she knew.
2) Even if Amber did...this doesn’t somehow absolve Depp of wrongdoing/abuse. Even if Amber was a complete bitch this doesn’t absolve Depp of physical abuse. In a way, this is a form of victim blaming: she bought out the worst in him. Perhaps they both did, but again, doesn’t mean she deserved being strangled in her own home. No one deserves that.
3) Simply because you haven’t been abusive towards a partner in the past, or you have hidden abusive behaviour better, again doesn’t clear you of present wrongdoing. Yes it is used for a character witness defence but it’s not proof in the slightest. For comparison but how ridiculous this statement is, “he never murdered anyone before”... it just doesn’t fly.

I’ve found the trial of Amber Heard by the public very telling of how we automatically disbelieve victim statements, or ask questions like “well what was she wearing?”... Whether she is a good person, a nice person, or how much she drank, shouldn’t matter: if he hit her he hit her.

 

[Chinese_whispers]

He also got rid of safe words and wouldn’t allow them so just did what he wanted to them

this is exactly why people should stop calling what he’s into BDSM. That’s NOT what it is. BDSM has a structure in place. You have code words, boundaries and trust. He’s just a tiny man with a big ego who likes to hurt people.

 

[Bloody orange Hell]

This is what I mean - the minute a woman marries someone who has a lot of money/ a job - she’s a gold digger according to the fans - regardless of whether they have their own career and money

When I asked for a divorce after 17yrs of marriage my ex went into a tailspin about me fleecing him and doing well out of him. His friends enabled and encouraged that narrative. Crazy middle-aged woman wants freedom to fuck and shop with her poor hard-done-by ex’s money.

I pointed out in mediation that when we met, and married, I brought £500k to the table and he brought £30k, that I had given up my equally well paying career (with more security) on his request to be a SAHM, so if anyone did well it was him. He just blustered and ignored me. He actually BELIEVED his self pitying version. He encouraged others to believe it. He still believes it. Despite the evidence. I think it is so engrained into society that women are gold diggers. That we fleece men in divorces. My ex got 50% of everything. Even though I can’t get a job and I have the kids for the majority of the time. But he is older so they judged his work options were low. It was incredibly annoying but fair I suppose. What angers me was everyone thinking I made money out of him.

Btw I’m not boasting about the money. Just illustrating the point. I had it because my dad was badly injured in a car accident at 50yrs old which left him with (unbeknownst to any of us) serious life-limiting injuries. (He did in fact die in the time scale the doctors gave him. We found all the medical letters and reports after he died) He sued and eventually got a large insurance payout because he couldn’t work and had to turn down his dream research job he’d just got, and his lifespan was only predicted to be 5-10yrs. The money was my inheritance and obviously got eaten up in a house and divorce. I’m not financially comfortable like I used to be thanks to my pesky kids. I’d tell any woman not to give up her job entirely. It was the biggest mistake of my life agreeing to his request.

Anyway. Back to gossip.

 

[Moobiemoo]

I also had trouble sleeping and yes it made me unnerved

They aren’t whores. They were vulnerable young women. Like my daughters age
He clearly told them that their marriage was over/sham/heading for divorce - that is cheater handbook 101!!!
He even talks about it in his messages