Afghanistan

[Underthetabletop]

I honestly can’t believe the contrast between us and uk politics.
we are tearing strips off the foreign sec for not coming home off holiday and the defence sec for his handling of things, but the US Vice President is doing a trade tour thing around Asia, visiting places like China and Vietnam. They have known this deadline was coming since before they got in, so why this was pressing now when she should have been involved left right and centre, I don’t know.
unless the Americans were so arrogant to think they they would all be waved off with banners and song, and no issues at all…..

 

[Yel]

The ex services MP (forget his name) made quite a good point just on lbc re pen and the animals. He said the problem has never been about space in aircraft but it's about the public resources needed to get to the point of boarding the plane. Mod resources have been used to get them there at the cost of not helping the interpreters and their families who are now sitting ducks. An interpreter said "why is the life of my 5 year old son worth less than a dog?"

Twitter mobs and blue tickers can be so problematic.

 

[NeverEnough]

I suspect the same and wonder why they haven't put up Kamala as a candidate.

Because she was a black woman as supposed to a white man? This is really sad.

I don't think she has what it got to be president, the video of her answering questions didn't come across well.
She has a nervous laugh, is very "American" in the way she responds to questions and phrases things (makes it hard to relate to her for me as a European) and I just don't think she has a lot of charisma.

Kamala did enter the democratic primaries but didn’t get very far. Her best moment was creating the briefly prominent slogan “That girl was me”, ironically enough during a heated debate with Biden. I thought the Left were above such slogans (ie Get Brexit Done drove them nutty) but I’ve long since given up trying to figure the infinite complexity of political doublethink these days. She dropped out after a few states declared due to lack of funds and lack of support. When Biden announced that his running mate would be female, effectively ruling out 50% of the population for the job of VP, I pretty much knew what was coming, either Kamala or Fake Pocahontas.

 

[Merpedy]

I honestly can’t believe the contrast between us and uk politics.
we are tearing strips off the foreign sec for not coming home off holiday and the defence sec for his handling of things, but the US Vice President is doing a trade tour thing around Asia, visiting places like China and Vietnam. They have known this deadline was coming since before they got in, so why this was pressing now when she should have been involved left right and centre, I don’t know.
unless the Americans were so arrogant to think they they would all be waved off with banners and song, and no issues at all…..

Tbf, I don’t think Harris has much to do with Afghanistan anyway (see below). Plus, the Asia trip is apparently to give reassurance to those countries that the US remains a good ally in the region (again China presumably), which given the crisis in Afghanistan is actually pretty important now. From what I understand, a huge part of her job is to be representing Biden while he’s busy doing something else, and that’s exactly what she is doing

The thing with America that is so different from the UK, is that the American constitution names the president as a Commander-In-Chief. That’s a vital link to the military and basically means that the President is the one who has to answer if there is a military involved

 

[kev1974]

The ex services MP (forget his name) made quite a good point just on lbc re pen and the animals. He said the problem has never been about space in aircraft but it's about the public resources needed to get to the point of boarding the plane. Mod resources have been used to get them there at the cost of not helping the interpreters and their families who are now sitting ducks. An interpreter said "why is the life of my 5 year old son worth less than a dog?"

Twitter mobs and blue tickers can be so problematic.

What I've been saying in this very thread several times ... was always about limited flight slots, apron space, fuel, ground crew, and a whole list of other things that are in short supply. Great that he and his menagerie of stray animals are out but I'm still pretty angry about the people and children that weren't lucky enough to have the twitter warriors and celebrities shouting on their behalf, so didn't get these resources spent on them, and will now be abandoned to face the bloodbath.

Fairly shameful priorities tbh. And it doesn't even scratch the surface of all the other stray animals that roam the streets over there so really what was the point?

The number of people that the gov and military have managed to get out to safety is actually an amazing achievement, but if they hadn't had to spend so much time and resource dealing with Paul Farthing it might have been a couple of planes more. So whatever he ends up doing with the menagerie of rescued animals next had better be bloody worthwhile.

 

[Yel]

Pen saying that other people can use the plane he's managed to get funding for is a bit meaningless. Other people don't have the media attention in order to get through to the airport.

Don't blame him at all for wanting to look after the animals and his friends, but it does come down to another situation of those in power and influence getting ahead at the cost of others.

What I've been saying in this very thread several times ... was always about limited flight slots, apron space, fuel, ground crew, and a whole list of other things that are in short supply. Great that he and his menagerie of stray animals are out but I'm still pretty angry about the people and children that weren't lucky enough to have the twitter warriors and celebrities shouting on their behalf, so didn't get these resources spent on them, and will now be abandoned to face the bloodbath.

Yep I've said it myself several times on this thread also but the situation has changed in the last day where now the airport has the capacity as many countries have stopped but there's still not capacity elsewhere. Worth reiterating especially with the quote from one of those left behind by it all.

 

[thegirlscout]

On Talk Radio last night they said Pen's plane had been organised and paid for by an un-named wealthy benefactor.

Maybe that person has also financed others but because of Pen's high profile he's the one getting the coverage because the Animal rights activists can get press interviews on radio and telly etc because they are often high profile celebs like Peter Egan and Ricky Gervais.

We'll find out more as people get out of that hell hole.

I’ve seen on Twitter that there were other charter flights. Some where charging the earth to get on

 

[Merpedy]

Tbf, the fact that he left the country on one (if not) the final days and that processing of new people has been more or less halted to an extent means that as many resources wouldn’t have been taken away if this has happened earlier. It nearly did but was stopped, nor were they actually guaranteed to get out of the country as soon as they got in because Americans are deciding where the resources go

The issues are valid but with the way it worked out it probably means that there was less impact than there could have been

 

[bubbadabut]

The number of people that the gov and military have managed to get out to safety is actually an amazing achievement, but if they hadn't had to spend so much time and resource dealing with Paul Farthing it might have been a couple of planes more. So whatever he ends up doing with the menagerie of rescued animals next had better be bloody worthwhile.

Strictly, perhaps? I'm a Celeb?

It's like someone turning up at the Panama Canal in their private yacht and moaning because the officials won't just let them through. Why can't the registered tankers with their paperwork and allocated slots be made to wait?!

 

[Underthetabletop]

What I've been saying in this very thread several times ... was always about limited flight slots, apron space, fuel, ground crew, and a whole list of other things that are in short supply. Great that he and his menagerie of stray animals are out but I'm still pretty angry about the people and children that weren't lucky enough to have the twitter warriors and celebrities shouting on their behalf, so didn't get these resources spent on them, and will now be abandoned to face the bloodbath.

Fairly shameful priorities tbh. And it doesn't even scratch the surface of all the other stray animals that roam the streets over there so really what was the point?

The number of people that the gov and military have managed to get out to safety is actually an amazing achievement, but if they hadn't had to spend so much time and resource dealing with Paul Farthing it might have been a couple of planes more. So whatever he ends up doing with the menagerie of rescued animals next had better be bloody worthwhile.

There’s been a few of us who have all said that. It’s like idea that Ben Wallace was saying they were pushing in. He wasn’t. But why he was technically saying was that he couldn’t let Pens people go ahead of people who were already processed. Which was true, he fast tracked their stuff and being with him would have got them ahead of people queuing outside, dolled up with a going by a private plane.
the problem is, people commenting on this probably don’t have a clue about the logistics, they probably have enough on going to sodding tesco!
And putting crates on a plane takes more time, people can walk. I saw the car argument a few times, a car takes 20 seconds to get up on a plane. You can’t load 50 dogs in that time, and anyone with a heart would take time to ensure the animals aren’t traumatised.
I saw one woman in Twitter telling the American women to ‘tell’ the army they were going. It’s not like the local cafe woman were you can shout at the young lass serving to get what you want. It’s the military…..

it’s the one thing I hate about social media, anyone can have an opinion about anything, and whilst I don’t think opinions are for the rich and educated, there’s time it’s better not to offer one. Especially when people there are saying they feel like their child isn’t worth the same as a rescue dog I can’t imagine how it must be to even think that

Strictly, perhaps? I'm a Celeb?

It's like someone turning up at the Panama Canal in their private yacht and moaning because the officials won't let them through. Why can't the registered tankers with their paperwork and allocated slots wait?

Next it will be that his wife can’t get over with immigration regulations and want a special bypass for her because we did it for Afghan people. He seems a kind bloke for animals, but I get the feeling he is a typical white middle class bloke and he will get what he wants when he wants it

 

[Yel]

Strictly, perhaps? I'm a Celeb?

He'll soon be crossing the 100k followers mark, he'll be needing some foil balloons!

Sorry for joking on a serious thread, but I can see him getting his own thread on tattle. He does seem like a good guy trying to do his best, but fame and social media can make the rot set in.

 

[Rita Chevrolet]

I’ve seen on Twitter that there were other charter flights. Some where charging the earth to get on

Pen had a fundraiser - I contributed - it was not one rich benefactor.

So then IF Pen's team can order a charter aircraft for their evacuation how come the various govts could not manage it then?? Pen had I believe 170 spare seats on his flight which he gave to the authorities to fill will those also waiting to get out - his animals were in the hold where they would always travel so not using the seats in the cabin, however this entire issue was created because Pen would not leave his loyal staff behind to face uncertain futures, he was especially concerned because in these families there were young teenage girls whom would certainly become fodder for the 'Jihadi Bride" outrage so he was held back twice over niggling in the visa applications for his people. If he didn't care he would have just abandoned them all to save his own skin wouldn't he?

Have you also seen the team of US Veterans operating undercover out there taking vulnerable women & children through the fences and on to rescue? They are doing this without the "permission" of Biden or anybody else - they are doing it because they care enough to risk their own lives in doing so; They are Heroes

 

[Merpedy]

I’m interested, and slightly worried, to see what happens to the animals that have been rescued. As I understand they will be put into a shelter?

Shelters can struggle to adopt animals out as it is, and while I’m sure their history will draw people, I can still see a few not being very successful. If they were to be put down or spend the rest of their time in a shelter, I don’t think many people would be very happy

 

[Underthetabletop]

Pen had a fundraiser - I contributed - it was not one rich benefactor.

So then IF Pen's team can order a charter aircraft for their evacuation how come the various govts could not manage it then?? Pen had I believe 170 spare seats on his flight which he gave to the authorities to fill will those also waiting to get out - his animals were in the hold where they would always travel so not using the seats in the cabin, however this entire issue was created because Pen would not leave his loyal staff behind to face uncertain futures, he was especially concerned because in these families there were young teenage girls whom would certainly become fodder for the 'Jihadi Bride" outrage so he was held back twice over niggling in the visa applications for his people. If he didn't care he would have just abandoned them all to save his own skin wouldn't he?

Have you also seen the team of US Veterans operating undercover out there taking vulnerable women & children through the fences and on to rescue? They are doing this without the "permission" of Biden or anybody else - they are doing it because they care enough to risk their own lives in doing so; They are Heroes

But Rita, again, it’s not about the numbers. It’s about the time taken to load the animals, it’s about the loss of an airway slot that could hold a massive military plane. This is what people weren’t getting. I couldn’t care less who funded it or what was happening, but if the army are helping to load crates of animals they are not doing security checks on the people who could have got on the plane.
Then the slot would be over extended if they started these checks and it was cause an international incident. Planes were going in and out in 30 minutes, they didn’t have time to hover and it they did, they might get shot at or blown out of the sky.
What about this can people NOT get!

 

[Rita Chevrolet]

I read that there are already things done to ensure the well-being and safety of the animals. A lot are already pre-adopted, possibly they were dogs adopted by serving service personnel who wanted to take them Home with them which is exactly why NOWZAD was set up to being with - to reunite service personnel with the dogs they adopted in Afghanistan; They will undoubtedly be off to be with their adoptive families asap but I doubt there will be any issues with the rest finding good homes after all this

 

[Underthetabletop]

I’m interested, and slightly worried, to see what happens to the animals that have been rescued. As I understand they will be put into a shelter?

Shelters can struggle to adopt animals out as it is, and while I’m sure their history will draw people, I can still see a few not being very successful. If they were to be put down or spend the rest of their time in a shelter, I don’t think many people would be very happy

I don’t think they will go anywhere, they will be too traumatised from that experience, and if people can’t cope with lockdown pedigree puppies they couldn’t deal with these dogs.

 

[Rita Chevrolet]

But Rita, again, it’s not about the numbers. It’s about the time taken to load the animals, it’s about the loss of an airway slot that could hold a massive military plane. This is what people weren’t getting. I couldn’t care less who funded it or what was happening, but if the army are helping to load crates of animals they are not doing security checks on the people who could have got on the plane.
Then the slot would be over extended if they started these checks and it was cause an international incident. Planes were going in and out in 30 minutes, they didn’t have time to hover and it they did, they might get shot at or blown out of the sky.
What about this can people NOT get!

They would use exactly the same loading criteria for crates of documents, computers, some car or whatever - it all has to be weighed and safely placed to balance the plane. I refuse to dispute your post BUT Pen should have been out of there weeks ago were it not for the govt deciding at the last minute to quibble over his staff's visas etc and they have bloody-well known about this deadline for a very long time so its hardly a case of not knowing what was happenning, or the chaos that would ensue as the deadline drew near It has been badly mismanaged

UPDATE - the taliban stopped Pen's staff & their families going with him so he is understandbly bereft now but despite that they sent him onwards to continue the journey with the hope the UK govt can secure passage for them via the taliban. Now if there had'nt been the rooster-up days ago with Visas etc ALL the group would have been out of there safely

 

[Smashbox]

I suspect the same and wonder why they haven't put up Kamala as a candidate.

Because she was a black woman as supposed to a white man? This is really sad.

I don't think she has what it got to be president, the video of her answering questions didn't come across well.
She has a nervous laugh, is very "American" in the way she responds to questions and phrases things (makes it hard to relate to her for me as a European) and I just don't think she has a lot of charisma.

Look how awful Kamala did in the primary’s and you’ll see why she wasn’t put up.

 

[Underthetabletop]

They would use exactly the same loading criteria for crates of documents, computers, some car or whatever - it all has to be weighed and safely placed to balance the plane. I refuse to dispute your post BUT Pen should have been out of there weeks ago were it not for the govt deciding at the last minute to quibble over his staff's visas etc and they have bloody-well known about this deadline for a very long time so its hardly a case of not knowing what was happenning, or the chaos that would ensue as the deadline drew near It has been badly mismanaged

UPDATE - the taliban stopped Pen's staff & their families going with him so he is understandbly bereft now but despite that they sent him onwards to continue the journey with the hope the UK govt can secure passage for them via the taliban. Now if there had'nt been the rooster-up days ago with Visas etc ALL the group would have been out of there safely

You refuse to dispute my post? I’m not talking about the weighing and working out space, all that is done before. I’m talking about the time and manpower it would take to do this, compared to loading people. Read the article by Stuart Ramsey to see what people had to go through on a tight timescale. And if every hand was on deck to clear the animals, how could they be doing security checks on people etc? And I’m going to be honest now, he probably wasn’t the governments main priority despite everything going off
i give up on this matter tbh, but just remember that Pen isn’t a military expert coordinator and there will have been things he wasn’t party to in discussions about getting him out, thing we ALL may never know and so we have to balance everything we see and read.
And tbh, my thoughts are more about the devastation left behind, what impact that will have on the people, and about how we got into this situation in the first place due to rich men holding all the power over a state that wasn’t prepared or ready for this, even when history said this will never work.

 

[Merpedy]

UPDATE - the taliban stopped Pen's staff & their families going with him

From what I understand, the Taliban is working under America’s orders on visas and what not at the gates. Because they didn’t have the documents now required by the US, the Taliban couldn’t actually let them pass

A lot of people will be in the same boat and I really hope that the blame isn’t just deflected to the Taliban. Though at the same time, at this point it was probably a necessary thing to do so they could focus on processing the prioritised people. It’s effectively US’ way of saying that the gates are closed to the majority of people