Thomas Cook

[emmer_moans]

I don't understand why these huge holiday companies operate to the bottom line all the time. How can you run out of money so quick, do they not ensure they have enough reserve ? Is it greed in offering too many holidays that they can't fulfil? This seems to happen every year.

 

[Serious_Susan]

They're trying to sell it as cheaper to bail out than to fund flying back everyone, but I think that's misleading.

Completely agree that this is misleading. It’s not a case of £200m or £600m as all passengers are covered by ATOL

 

[Web30]

Hope this helps someone!

 

[Yel]

I cannot see why Thos Cook holidaymakers and jobs should not be saved at this stage.

Comparing it to companies that are vital for infrastructure, security and business isn't the best match.

It's an outdated business model and has had ample time to modernise but hasn't.

A fair comparison I think is Woolworths, it was just outdated and poorly run. Online and Wilko took its market.

No I don't think the banks should have been bailed either in the way they were in the uk, but that's another post.

This 200m bailout would just be the first. Better to let it go imo, all people on holiday will get flown back regardless of if it's package protected under atol or not.

We could see Mr and Mrs Average of the UK priced out of abroad holidays completely. It's sad times for the younger generation all round

I totally agree with what you are saying about millennials, they have been totally screwed over and many still don't realise just how bleak their future will be.

But for holidays I don't think this will really affect them, the idea of going to somewhere on the highstreet and booking a holiday with a person on a computer is totally alien to almost everyone under 30. The package holiday won't be going anywhere, the only long term change is it won't exist on the high street imo.

 

[eSsExBiRd]

I’ve just priced up where I went this year as a package for the same week next Aug - £2259 AI, transfers and baggage included.

DIY:
Flight only £1596 including bags
Hotel £1679 (via booking.com, cheapest option at the time of checking)......need I say more

 

[Yel]

They're trying to sell it as cheaper to bail out than to fund flying back everyone, but I think that's misleading.

Completely agree that this is misleading. It’s not a case of £200m or £600m as all passengers are covered by ATOL

I think there's "only" 16m in the atol funds and the government has to stump up the rest. But still don't trust the claims it's cheaper long term to bail them out. Don't know enough about it really thought.

 

[Tublet83]

 

[Tublet83]

I thought bankruptcy was just usa
Are they not same company as tui now?

Direct competition with Tui

 

[HowLongOhLord]

I book packages still but only after checking out the price of doing it directly. This year my holiday was several hundred pounds cheaper than diy via Jet2 plus there’s the extra protection of ABTA/ATOL (not all Flight only bookings are covered by ATOL) and a Rep who we actually did need for assistance when we were away and she was an absolute lifesaver.

Remarkable. Can you fill in on the comparative prices, please?

For myself, I can only say that if I research flights and hotels for myself, that I never feel i am out of pocket compared to a package,, but then I have no desire to travel to Magaluf (at least, in season) nor Aya Napa, nor Ibiza, nor other hell holes which young Brits seek to infest

I’m very strongly a remainer.

But I don’t think your opinion on brexit affects whether you book a package holiday, and I’m not sure it’s a confidence thing either. It can be cheaper, and there are hotels you can only book through travel agents. We book cruises through a travel agent because it costs the same as booking direct but the nice human being in the shop will deal with any changes or problems rather than having to wait hours on the phone to talk to someone over a bad line. If you’re booking as a group it can be a lot easier to have one all in price for people rather than lots of separate charges to admin. And some people (busy lives, kiddies) just don’t enjoy doing the research and would rather the travel agent did it for them.

Lots of reasons to use a travel agent regardless of whether you want to remain in the European Union or not

Cruises!

I daresay there should be a separate thread for this subject?

What does a cruiser enjoy exactly about another country;s culture? A quick dip of the toe in the water at the shallow end of the pool before moving quickly on? Outbreaks of norovirus? Overcharged 'excursions' which you could manage by yourself via a taxi at a cheaper price?

 

[Stealth1902]

I think that unfortunately its gone too far and they will go into administration.

 

[fireflies]

I thought bankruptcy was just usa
Are they not same company as tui now?

 

[eSsExBiRd]

I thought you had made a bull point there, until I recalled British Airways and the subsidy of the Arts and the BBC - all at one point publicly funded



A fair comparison may be Woolworths, I agree, but certainly not online retailers like Amazon. I do not class a high street business as ;outdated; unless and until online retailers like Amazon are taxed as as hard as their high street equivalents and sell on a level playing field. And the reason I say that without any remorse, is because not only are online retailers decimating our high street shops and sucking the life blood out of our high streets, but also most importantly, because high street businesses are taxed - and those taxes help pay for our local services and central gov. Whereas the wheeler-dealers like Amazon pay disproportionately a very low level of tax, while hollowing out our high street retailers.

You want social care? Or good local schools? Or police on the street? Amazon is not your friend. One small example: there is an IT specialist who works for Amazon, based in Seattle. He has been called over for short term assignments in Greece and Germany. He is by no means the world;s answer to IT. Amazon simply choose to use him and fly him across to Europe. He fixes the problem and flies back to N America which he much prefers. The mugs in Europe pay for this shyte.



The subject is large, I agree. But it is socially irresponsible for you to waft it off like a pesky fly, while justifying the sinking of a much smaller UK business like Thos Cook,



Do you live in Paris and hope the population eat cake?



Others on this thread may disagree with you, albeit they disagree with me



If you enjoy places like Aya Napa or Ibiza in high season with its bubble baths, or whatever they are, , then it is for me to disabuse you of such high pleasures. By all means carry on.

It is just not for me, and never has been. I would sooner sleep on the roof of an Athens hotel, or on an Aegean beach,. but I daresay you would think I was on some form gf Outward Bound.

You assume a lot but I can assure your you’re very far from your assumption when it comes to my break choices

 

[Serious_Susan]

So today seems to be make or break for them, what does everyone think is going to happen?

 

[Tricham]

I think it's gonna be bad news. Sucks for me as I have a holiday booked for 2020 - but of course, sucks more for their employees.

 

[HowLongOhLord]

Not the news I was hoping for this morning Genuinely gutted that such an icon to the U.K. travel industry has gone, just like that. The effect of this will be felt throughout the world from the holiday, staff both here and overseas and those hotels who depend on TC (and solely sell/belong to the group) who employ local staff. A sad day for all concerned.

Yes. The company was nationalised in 1948 and as I have argued throughout this thread, the 1972 privatisation could and should have been reversed, The German arm of the company - Kondor - is still flying its panes today with German government support, whereas the Tories have allowed the UK operation to collapse. I fully accept that the company has not fared well under privatisation, but there was a more gentle way to handle all of this.

 

[HowLongOhLord]

Long days in places I could never afford or have enough annual leave to visit for longer, and discovering the places we do want to visit for longer. Long walks through beautiful places, visiting as many historic places or tourist attractions as we want. Never do excursions unless the place we want to visit is too far inland to manage alone.
Lunch somewhere local.

Get back on board and all our food is included, waiter service drinks at good prices, a lovely cabin where we don’t have to pack/ unpack between different Capital cities or even different countries. An onboard spa. High quality entertainment every night.

We can travel with family who have different interests and all do our own thing and meet when we want to. Especially those with mobility issues. The best of both worlds- sea days to be in a “resort” having drinks brought to you, or playing board games or reading a book in a bar overlooking the ocean, port days to explore as much or as little as you wish.

When we went to Barcelona for a long weekend a few years ago I hated it. We couldn’t find anywhere nice and authentic we could afford to eat, it was the wrong time of year and we’d been made to feel very anxious about pickpockets. This year we stopped there on a cruise and I loved it. Left anything valuable in our cabin, got a taxi to Sagrada Familia, spent 3 hours there then spent 8 hours wandering back to the ship via sights, shops, the food market. I have good memories of it now and I never would have gone back otherwise.

The only place I’ve ever caught norovirus was a luxury all inclusive in Greece. Anywhere where there’s lots of people it’s a risk.

Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it, and maybe come down off your high horse a bit because your post came across really nasty.

You should offer your post to a cruise line - they may pay you well for such an endorsement.

I apologise if my words were inapposite. The sentiment is not.

Cruises are for dipping your toe tentatively in the water of other cultures If all you want is a mezze, then fine. If you want a little more, then a cruise , as far as I can judge, will never cut it, Equally, those who briefly sojourn in places like Krakow, or Amsterdam, or Temple Bar, blind drunk, on a stag weekend can hardly be said to have really started to understand a country's culture.

e.g. I know people who went on a cruise to Japan earlier this year: They never went on a bullet train- how could they? They never got near the summit of Mount Fuji or tested the bathing houses; the amount of time they spent in a place like Kyoto was minimal. That;'s for starters.

They would never have understood there are differences between East and West Nihon. etc etc

Cruises are fine for those who want to remain comparatively innoculated from real life in another shore, whilst pretending they have really experienced that country.

I’ve just priced up where I went this year as a package for the same week next Aug - £2259 AI, transfers and baggage included.

DIY:
Flight only £1596 including bags
Hotel £1679 (via booking.com, cheapest option at the time of checking)......need I say more

OMG......Say No More (((shudders))) Are you from Purley?

[/center[​

 

[HowLongOhLord]

Comparing it to companies that are vital for infrastructure, security and business isn't the best match.

I thought you had made a bull point there, until I recalled British Airways and the subsidy of the Arts and the BBC - all at one point publicly funded

It's an outdated business model and has had ample time to modernise but hasn't.

A fair comparison I think is Woolworths, it was just outdated and poorly run. Online and Wilko took its market.

A fair comparison may be Woolworths, I agree, but certainly not online retailers like Amazon. I do not class a high street business as ;outdated; unless and until online retailers like Amazon are taxed as as hard as their high street equivalents and sell on a level playing field. And the reason I say that without any remorse, is because not only are online retailers decimating our high street shops and sucking the life blood out of our high streets, but also most importantly, because high street businesses are taxed - and those taxes help pay for our local services and central gov. Whereas the wheeler-dealers like Amazon pay disproportionately a very low level of tax, while hollowing out our high street retailers.

You want social care? Or good local schools? Or police on the street? Amazon is not your friend. One small example: there is an IT specialist who works for Amazon, based in Seattle. He has been called over for short term assignments in Greece and Germany. He is by no means the world;s answer to IT. Amazon simply choose to use him and fly him across to Europe. He fixes the problem and flies back to N America which he much prefers. The mugs in Europe pay for this shyte.

No I don't think the banks should have been bailed either in the way they were in the uk, but that's another post.

The subject is large, I agree. But it is socially irresponsible for you to waft it off like a pesky fly, while justifying the sinking of a much smaller UK business like Thos Cook,

This 200m bailout would just be the first. Better to let it go imo, all people on holiday will get flown back regardless of if it's package protected under atol or not.

Do you live in Paris and hope the population eat cake?

I totally agree with what you are saying about millennials, they have been totally screwed over and many still don't realise just how bleak their future will be.

But for holidays I don't think this will really affect them, the idea of going to somewhere on the highstreet and booking a holiday with a person on a computer is totally alien to almost everyone under 30. The package holiday won't be going anywhere, the only long term change is it won't exist on the high street imo.

Others on this thread may disagree with you, albeit they disagree with me

Just because you’ve not doesn’t mean others haven’t Trust me, like for like booking separate for the holiday in August at the time I booked (10 months in advance) was dearer once baggage, transfers, the same flights and hotel were taken into consideration. And no, I didn’t travel to one of those “hell holes” (snobby much!) quoted.

If you enjoy places like Aya Napa or Ibiza in high season with its bubble baths, or whatever they are, , then it is for me to disabuse you of such high pleasures. By all means carry on.

It is just not for me, and never has been. I would sooner sleep on the roof of an Athens hotel, or on an Aegean beach,. but I daresay you would think I was on some form gf Outward Bound.

 

[HowLongOhLord]

I really hope they don't get a bailout, not that I want anyone to lose their job but it's just bandaid money and it's not the government's responsibility to bail out private companies that haven't kept up with the times. That's not capitalism.

With the public debt and how much services are underfunded it would be a huge disservice to everyone.

They're trying to sell it as cheaper to bail out than to fund flying back everyone, but I think that's misleading.

I think there's "only" 16m in the atol funds and the government has to stump up the rest. But still don't trust the claims it's cheaper long term to bail them out. Don't know enough about it really thought.

If you are going to make this sort of argument, then you must deal also with the Banking crisis of 2008, where British banks and former building societies which had become quasi banks, were effectively nationalised and bailed out by the government of the day.

If we took your reasoning, then many of those banks would have been hung out to dry, with Heaven only knows what consequences for the economy and jobs and social order. As it was, the government poured in large amounts of capital and permitted quantitive easing ( graduated Inflation in your terms and mine). The banks were saved. despite the fact that their Directors and employees had behaved irresponsibly, awarding themselves huge bonii on the back of utterly irresponsible lending decisions. Really bad examples include the RBS/Nat West group.

So now we have Thos Cook. The travel agency business has been palpably hurt by online bookings for years. If this company goes down the pan, then at the very least there will have to be a taxpayer funded bailout to get the people home. If however, the company is given a limited bailout, then it can reduce in size, and either sell off, or eventually collapse at a much lower level of intensity.

Here is a list of former nationalised industries of the UK. Under the Thatcher government of the 1980s: many of these were privatised,., including British Ariways. Some had been nationalised under Attlee e.g. coal, rail, utilities. Some had been already nationalised from the start e.g.Post Office/telephones; and critically, some had been taken into nationalisation to save jobs and the industry e.g. British Airways; Rolls Royce; Jaguar; British Leyland

So set against the 2008 bail out of the banks, which are now mostly restored to private ownership (apart from Nat West), I cannot see why Thos Cook holidaymakers and jobs should not be saved at this stage.

Last, please review the situation of British Steel in Scunthorpe, which the Tories are ignoring. This is considered to be a strategic industry. It is proposed that it be bought by a Turkish Army pension fund Is this the depths to which Tories stoop in order to follow a free market philosophy?

Strewth!

 

[HowLongOhLord]

Jesus some people just want to go on holiday for a bit of sun and some grub.

Culture vultures eh.

Gobble gobble and no

 

[bubbletea123]

Once businesses work to undercut each other on price, it is simply a race down into the vortex. UK Competition Law introduced by Thatcher just requires competition. It does not care whether quality standards are lowered: it simply demands that you compete. Inevitably ans inexorably, this leads to the survival of the fittest (sic) and only a few (if that manyy) are left standing: at that point, monopolies emerge, and once you have something approaching a monopoly, you can fix your price to your hearts content ( because there is no competition left to undercut you)



And many do. But many lack the confidence to do so - I hesitate to suggest that they may be of Brexiteer mentality, but that is where I wquld place my bet

Which part are you referring to as Brexit mentality?