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pommynoir

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Following the recent Louis Theroux documentary there seems to be a lot more discussion around so-called “toxic” male influencers and the wider manosphere. I thought it might be interesting to start a thread to talk about the show itself, as well as the broader culture and ideas surrounding the manosphere more generally
 
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Blueblue123

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What's sad is as well as absent fathers (I think someone actually put together a graphic showing most of the men in the programme had bad relationships with their dads), men's need for community, friendship and belonging has created this toxic "manosphere".

A lot of them want direction and someone to talk to, but it's more acceptable for a man to desire a girlfriend than it is friends, so they take all their frustrations out on women and being single.

I had an in depth conversation with a male friend about the "male loneliness epidemic" and challenged him on the point that men might be lonelier (aren't we all?) but why does it always come down to not having a girlfriend when many also don't have friends or good relationships with their family?
 
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gem7117

Chatty Member
I’m sick of hearing about it now to be honest. Lonely women have always been laughed at and called cat ladies - nobody cares about a female loneliness epidemic because we don’t turn into violent incels.

Women have been talking about these issues and male VAWG for years, and now Stephen Graham and Louis Theroux (don’t get me wrong, I love them both) have mentioned it, it’s all over the news and on the school curriculum.

Men are lonely, we get it. Go to therapy and leave women out of it. It’s only come to light because women are raising their standards and refusing to engage with losers and they have realised they don’t like it.
this is absolutely a fact. So spot on and most don’t see it.
 
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Tunacanoe

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I think alot of the rise of incels and this manosphere along with increasing violence against women is due to the fact that men now feel demasculated by women, most women are now better educated than men and independent and the majority no longer need to depend on a man. This is men trying to reassert their dominance because they feel threatened by women.
 
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rosieflowers

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I do agree this is a factor, but I also believe too many men (whether consciously or subconsciously) blame women for their feeling emasculated when in actual fact the real culprits are economic turbulence and capitalism.

I think about all of the positive masculine traits I see in the good men in my life (past and present) and it’s all the things like ‘providing for your family’ and ‘teaching the next generation life skills’. We now face an economic crisis whereby too many men cannot solely provide for their families anymore and a woman’s work is no longer a choice and bonus salary but a necessity. Capitalism has restructured our priorities, and I can’t think of many young men with practical skills I could call upon to help hang a shelf or change a tyre anymore (let alone teach their own kids how) and so I’d either YouTube how to do it myself or call a “proper dad”.

I feel like women have levelled up through the generations and found strength in redefining femininity. We can earn our own money, we can hang our own shelves, we can wear trousers, we can do all of this whilst still carrying and raising babies and managing a home, and meanwhile too many men have regressed back to being emotionally stunted cavemen who refuse to redefine their masculinity and still see it as some pissing contest. With progression of women’s rights, the world could have benefited, but instead of working with women, too many men are choosing to work against them. They seem to want a trad wife, but economic turbulence and capitalism won’t allow them to be a trad husband, and so then they blame LeFtiEs aNd FeMiNiStS instead of billionaires, unrealistic lifestyle influencers and… themselves. It’s time to accept that “trad” doesn’t work anymore, pull together, and grow level the fuck up.

I want “masculine pride” to mean more dads on school runs, more men feeling like safe spaces to women and children, more men in therapy, more men believing women when they say his mate gr*aped her, more men calling out misogyny, more men doing their own cleaning. Unresolved anger and fragile ego is not the definition of masculinity.
I loved your post, thanks so much for writing all of this! I agree with you that e.g. deindustrialisation and the modern, western economy has "emasculated" modern men and many of them aren't willing to find strength and skill and ability in less traditionally masculine spheres. I totally agree too that women have levelled up and up, taking on careers, sports, DIY, being able to be single mothers and have our own money and homes etc without stigma, which was never allowed in years gone by; while still managing the home, carrying and raising the children, doing inhuman amounts of domestic and emotional labour.

I also agree that when I think about good men in my life (and I am lucky to have MANY good male role models in my life!), they are the ones who know what hard work is, not just at work, but around the home. My dad who can do or will try his hand at any aspect of DIY, and take the time to show me, and my 5 year old daughter too! Who's always there with fatherly advice, but so proud of his daughters attending university and having high flying (ish lol) careers. My husband too - goes to work 5 days a week, doesn't complain, picks up the slack financially when I am on maternity leave and part-time. Plays with his kids, reads with our daughter every night, takes her to her clubs, is passionate about our children and their interests. Gladly looks after the kids at any moment so I can have time for myself/ pursue my own interests. Sorry for the waffle. I am hoping to goodness that our children - my daughter and my son - will be okay :(

It's so easy for me and my husband to laugh at the "manosphere" portrayed in the documentary, but for teen boys etc steeped in the internet, who've never known a world outside of the current social media landscape, it's not so easy, and it's hard for me to put my feet into those shoes and understand what's so appealing about it, and how to help my kids navigate that in due course? I'm hoping when my kids (5 and 1) are of age, there will be serious regulation of social media etc for children.
 
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I’m glad this thread exists. Have any of you seen the Zandland documentary on YouTube called ‘Inside the intel’s who rent girlfriends’? It’s only about 30 minutes long but it is absolutely horrifying
 
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pommynoir

VIP Member
I quite like Ed Matty, I’m not sure why but I do find him quite funny.

HS is an idiot, and the documentary exposed that.

The Americans were another level, but I don’t expect anything else 😂

The women who get involved with these men / go on their podcasts to be humiliated is what I really don’t get. Nobody is that dense, and nobody’s self worth is that low.

I don’t think the manosphere is a completely bad thing. Obviously I don’t agree with some of the extreme or hostile attitudes of some (I guess the doc showed the most extreme cases), I also think it raises points that aren’t always spoken about. Issues like men’s MH and openly talking about pressures men face, or feel they do. But I do acknowledge that some of the criticisms of modern dating culture and certain behaviours aren’t completely unfounded. I dont think they should be hostile towards women, but I do think that people (even men lol) are entitled to an opinion, and some points made are worth reflection or discussion.
 
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byefeliciax

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Slightly off topic, but there’s another documentary on Netflix that I think really showcases how lives can be turned around when troubled men are incentivised to learn to be better fathers. The focus is on daughters of troubled men here, I pray for the manosphere conversation to bring wider acknowledgement of the impact absent fathers have on sons and how repairs can be made.

 
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Melian

VIP Member
Ross Kemp is doing a programme on crime and investigation channel Monday at 9pm called Lost boys deadly men which in part does touch on similar things mentioned in this thread
 
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Blueblue123

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Men of the Manosphere: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m002m7j5 via @bbciplayer

There's this BBC documentary about people who follow manosphere content and my gosh, some of these men are so lost.

There's one guy who clearly doesn't fully believe red pill content but is going with it anyway because he thinks the men selling those ideas look successful.

It was aired in November so it's not new but I hadn't seen it.
 
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pommynoir

VIP Member
I really like HS 😬 I like how he speaks the truth in a lot of what he says. The lefties like Louis and Piers couldn’t deal with it because they’re usually talking to people that are full of shit
What about the lies like when he said he’d deleted the video of your man getting beaten up but he had actually reposted it all as mini clips.

I like Ed Matty but I can’t stand HS to me he’s full of shit and his voice irritates the fuck out of me.
 

PrawnPurse

VIP Member
I’m glad this thread exists. Have any of you seen the Zandland documentary on YouTube called ‘Inside the intel’s who rent girlfriends’? It’s only about 30 minutes long but it is absolutely horrifying
I’m gonna be watching that tomorrow. That sounds horrifying as well.