The late abortion jail sentence case

[JoeBloggs]

Clearly I am not in the majority here, but frankly a jail sentence for her is purely to make an example of her. Jail is to rehabilitate people, she does not need rehabilitating. She was a woman in clearly a very difficult situation, perhaps with mental health issues. She was in a situation which drove her to dire actions. They have now taken her away from her three children, with needs who need her. What impact will that have on them and her when she returns?

I totally accept what she did was wrong, however in this case, the life of one unborn child has been taken as to be the most important over her three children and her. There are 80,000 children currently in care in the UK, many who are struggling and currently campaigning to how much it effects their life even once they are out of care.

There is no way that she took this decision lightly, she clearly could not access the care she needed due to the pandemic and that is not her fault. She needs help yes, but I do not agree with jail nor with taking a mother away from her children when they state she is a good mother.

 

[Rdogk24]

I can’t believe anyone is defending the decision of the mother. She should have given that baby up for adoption as she had to give birth regardless. Should be treated as a newborn murder imo.

 

[Rosie glow]

What was she thinking? There was never going to be a good outcome to this sorry mess.
She was 44 and already had 3 kids, so she wasn't a silly young girl who didn't know what she was doing.
Can't believe people are defending her there is an abortion cut off date for a reason she effectively murdered her own baby, 2 years in prison is nothing.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

I am absolutely sick of people trying to use this case to scaremonger against campaigning for necessary changes to the law: "UK abortion laws are permissive enough already, trying to change them and backfire could get them rolled back!" The problem with the law is that abortion is, by default, still a crime but with some exceptions - all of which take autonomy away from a woman (has to be approved by two doctors, and if the baby is viable then they have to make a case that something is "wrong" with the mother.) The law should be changed to make abortion legal by default. That is a separate issue from what this woman has done. I don't think most people would approve of her actions, however, there's now a very real risk that the case will lead to increased prosecution of women for abortions even within the term limit because the law says it's still a crime

I also don't like seeing it argued "why didn't she just have the baby adopted?" Many children languish in the care system forever and have horrible lives. This one probably would have had it easier because white baby girls are the most "desirable" for adoption but it still doesn't guarantee anything other than a difficult start in life at best

no one knows where the baby's body ended up as I understand.

That's not true - the baby was delivered in hospital and there was a post-mortem (with evidence used in the prosecution.) The "body not found" refers to another case that the judge consulted for sentencing guidelines

 

[MagpieTree]

I am really struggling with my thoughts on this case.

I can't imagine any woman would make the decision to take this medicine lightly, knowing full well that they would have to give birth to an almost term baby. I know it's not something I could do and I can only imagine she was really struggling.

I do think there needs to be action taken to stop others doing this at such a late stage, but I'm not 100% sure prison is the right place for her.

 

[veryfondoftea]

I think it is a sad case all round. She obviously knew she was pregnant, she is a slim, toned looking woman. It would have been very obvious to her that she was further along than she said she was, so she was lying. I am pro-choice and pro-abortion but in this case, I just don't know, the lying from her, the fact the baby could have been born and lived.

 

[Piff paff puff]

The company that sent the tablets needs to be criminally charged for not safeguarding. The NHS also for neglect of public duty.
As for the woman, I agree with the sentencing. A crime was committed and no one knows where the baby's body ended up as I understand.
It's very sad but at the end of the day criminals are punished and go to jail. I heard someone discussing it on the radio saying she's not a danger to the public so she shouldn't be there but that's not the only reason people get sent to jail.

 

[JoeBloggs]

The lady was very conflicted with decision to take pills you can tell by the delay of her searches and taking the pills as judge said

I wouldn’t want any woman to put themselves in this danger did you see the first time paramedics came they left not knowing she was pregnant despite it saying report of suspected miscarriage

I don’t understand maybe she didn’t show very much but didn’t she seem serious enough to be taken to hospital the first time?

It says report she was having miscarriage she gave false information so that means she didn’t make the call herself?

Paramedics attended at 4.25pm in response to a report that you might be having a miscarriage. You gave the paramedics false information and, not realising that you were pregnant, they left. The second call was made at 6.39pm shortly before your daughter, Lily, was stillborn. Paramedics attended at 7pm but all attempts at resuscitation failed and Lily was pronounced dead at 7.45pm.

This bit doesn't add up to me. Paramedics get given the information from the call, so they must have been told she might be having a miscarriage. How do they then leave not knowing she was pregnant. If someone else called it in, they knew she was pregnant and were clearly with her at the time. How was she able to convince them she was not pregnant.

 

[Instaflop]

I’ve seen somebody say there should be no limit nothing about conditions and lots saying no woman should be forced to give birth, in this case what does that mean it’s ok?

Imo the baby had to come out one way or another so I don’t see how that argument that women shouldn’t have to give birth is null.

This case is so awful for all involved, especially the poor baby. The service should never have been allowed to just send abortion pills in the post. They should be taken under medical supervision after a scan to confirm the date and viability of the pregnancy . The woman is to blame too if she knew how far along she was but lied to obtain the tablets.

My main fear regarding this story is the effect it could have for women seeking a termination if the government decide to use this as an example of how things need changing.

 

[Hyacinthsquash]

I really really am in two minds. My eldest was born at the gestation of her baby so it’s hard to imagine thinking you can take some pills to make that pregnancy just ‘go away’. I do believe she must have been in some turmoil to have so long between googling, ordering pills and then ultimately taking them. Who knows what was happening while she was stuck in lockdown with her ex partner. It’s a really sad situation and although I agree with her being punished, I’m not sure a jail term is the right thing. Ultimately her children are now being punished as well. A sad case all round.

 

[Wild_she]

I’m cuddling my one week old and couldn’t imagine what her head must of been going through when she did it I wonder if she regretted it that’s why she called the paramedics, but then panicked when she realised the gravity of what she had done?

I know it’s terribly sad for all involved, but I don’t think a prison sentence is right for this her mental health must of been shot and probably still is from delivering and knowing what she did to that unborn child.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

It makes my blood boil seeing so many opinion pieces and comments in the wake of this case about "we shouldn't push to legalise abortion because it could backfire and women could lose rights." Women should never be dependent on men, or governments, for the right to control their own bodies. Especially because making abortion legal by default is a separate issue from the legal limit

Also saw an article mention a case in which a woman had committed suicide by jumping under a train whilst pregnant past 24 weeks, as she had discovered too late that the baby would be born severely disabled. She was taken to hospital and died some time later, police recorded an offence of "child destruction" but couldn't do anything because of her serious injuries. Had she survived she could have been prosecuted, obviously this is a very different case to the recent one but I still think it's horrifying that someone in this situation could be facing prison!

 

[MrsJones83]

I think it’s a bit of a cop out to blame it on lockdown, we went into lock down March 2020. She took the drugs May 2020.

She had from October 2019 to March 2020 without any restrictions or lockdowns in place, when she must have known she was pregnant and could have done legally done something about it.

 

[Sea]

I'm shifting more on anger at her actions and add in that she has already had other 2 unwanted pregnancies (1 aborted and 1 given up for adoption). I don't know the timeline of those pregnancies - if they were before, between or after her other children living at home. Nor do I know the circumstances of those other pregnancies/child so I might have more sympathy if know why.

I also feel sympathy specifically for the mindfxxk of the pandemic and her probably feeling helpless, lost and alone.

But she was already on the cusp/late for abortion just before the lock down.

im pro abortion and I'm not for giving up unwanted children into the care system, but she ultimately killed a pregnancy at 32/34 weeks.

I also think she needs to have punishment, and I think the health organisations pleading for this case are overstepping.

It's emotionally conflicting and complicated as a detached outsider, so what she was going through...

 

[Nelly's mum]

I find it difficult to believe her partner did not know she was pregnant - she was 8 months pregnant, it was surely obvious. I can understand being undecided whether to keep the baby or have an abortion but to do that to an almost full-term baby is awful, she had 24 weeks to have an abortion.

 

[MrsBsDayOff]

What was she thinking? There was never going to be a good outcome to this sorry mess.
She was 44 and already had 3 kids, so she wasn't a silly young girl who didn't know what she was doing.
Can't believe people are defending her there is an abortion cut off date for a reason she effectively murdered her own baby, 2 years in prison is nothing.

Yup. She was 8 months gone wasn't she, the baby was almost ready to be born.

 

[JoeBloggs]

I think it’s a bit of a cop out to blame it on lockdown, we went into lock down March 2020. She took the drugs May 2020.

She had from October 2019 to March 2020 without any restrictions or lockdowns in place, when she must have known she was pregnant and could have done legally done something about it.

You’re missing the point, lockdown meant the rules changed which enable her to access the pills without being seen in person and enabled her to claim she was much earlier in her pregnancy. If you’re referring to my previous post, I’m referencing to the fact someone called the ambulance and was likely with her when they arrived as it was lockdown therefore unlikely to be able to go anywhere.

 

[Merpedy]

Also saw an article mention a case in which a woman had committed suicide by jumping under a train whilst pregnant past 24 weeks, as she had discovered too late that the baby would be born severely disabled.

Abortions in cases of severe disability can take place after 24 weeks - a lot of screenings for disabilities happen a bit later in the pregnancy and the whole point is not to make women rush into decisions hence the 'exception' to the limit - so this possibly seems more like the woman not being aware of other options

Overall though, I totally agree. It makes sense to me that there's some balancing between the baby's life and the woman's life but at the end of the day, if the woman does not want to have a child the whole balancing of interests falls very short imo

 

[White]

It's a horrific case. I do feel for the woman, going through that alone, but knowing that the foetus is virtually fully formed and not knowing would it still be alive or not, or be born with disabilities due to her taking the medication so late, I can't imagine what was going through her mind and how anyone could go through with that so late.

Being a parent herself, as I am, as many of us are, I cannot imagine the horror of doing that so late. We don't know her state of mind though.

It raises so many questions. Did she not find out she was pregnant until late on? Questions that we will probably not get the answers to.

 

[cococookie]

I find it difficult to believe her partner did not know she was pregnant - she was 8 months pregnant, it was surely obvious. I can understand being undecided whether to keep the baby or have an abortion but to do that to an almost full-term baby is awful, she had 24 weeks to have an abortion.

This is what’s playing on my mind, why did she wait so long?