Not Now Bernard
Chatty Member
Ok then - I’ll settle for the phrase “birth mother”
- Notice
TheMiceInTheShed
VIP Member
Thank you for posting this.Even if the mother is treated well and willing enters into the surrogacy practice, and the child is raised well by the adoptive parents, it can still cause massive psychological harm to the child when they find out the truth.
Olivia Maurel was was surrogate baby and has called for it to be banned:
Olivia Maurel: "Surrogacy is a new form of human trafficking". - Declaration of Casablanca for the universal abolition of surrogacy - Home / Accueil
Original interview in OMNES, by Javier García Herrería-February 17, 2025 Olivia Maurel, born through surrogacy, exposes the impact of this process on the identity of children and her fight for its abolition worldwide. Olivia Maurel, an activist and key figure in the surrogacy debate, has turned...declaration-surrogacy-casablanca.org
I have always been been against surrogacy - it is (as stated) a form of trafficking - I would argue that it is even a form of modern-day slavery. It is open to so much abuse of both women and children. I pray that it will be banned worldwide. On the surface it's a fairytale - scratch that surface and there is a horror story.
Lynn’ssnazzycardigan
VIP Member
You raise some interesting points and it’s good imo to have differing opinions on a thread. I’m not the type to demand receipts but you write as though you have knowledge of child development, I wonder do you have skin in the game? My opinions are just that, opinions, but I do feel babies would feel safer surrounded by familiar things such as birth mother’s presence when they are born into a world made entirely of new and overwhelming experiences. I have done trauma informed therapy and was told that adverse events in utero and neonatal period can have a lasting effect on the child, I would think separation from birth mother would fall into this category. Even if baby goes to NICU they still get to hear mum’s voice and smell her so they get that bit of comfort. So I naturally make the leap that this would help with forming healthy attachments when they get to the age you are talking about because they have had that familiar presence that is part of them. I think the point stands that surrogacy creates a baby who will suffer this otherwise avoidable separation and for most people on this thread that’s one of the reasons they don’t agree with it.
TheMiceInTheShed
VIP Member
“You take children from Mexico, and then you don’t know what happens to them,” she said. “I mean, nobody, nobody demands any accountability regarding the whereabouts and wellbeing of these children.” ‘
Not just from Mexico - from everywhere.
This is the most terrible and terrifying aspect of surrogacy to me. Even worse than the callous exploitation of women.
How many Varleys and McGowan-Fazackerlys are out there? And any of them can buy a baby. A baby who might not even have a birth record - just a quiet handover for a wedge of cash and nothing said. A child who will officially not exist - but can still be abused and exploited. Who can still suffer. It worries me sick how many there could be.
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WitchyGrab
Chatty Member
The Guardian has done some coverage of surrogacy and I found this quote to be very powerful. I totally agree with what López Nares said; that it is ‚form of neo-colonisation of women’s bodies’, and ‚a patriarchal practice of reproductive exploitation that affects the most vulnerable women‘.
‚Keith López Nares is a professor at the University of the Valley of Mexico and co-author of a 2024 study on the practice of surrogacy in Tabasco, one of the only states where the practice is regulated.
The study found that surrogacy was “a patriarchal practice of reproductive exploitation that affects the most vulnerable women living in poverty, leading them to rent their wombs as a survival strategy.
“This situation of economic vulnerability is exploited by the international and national markets as an extractive practice justified by the argument that women ‘freely’ decide to sign the surrogacy contract.”
According to Lopez Nares, some poor women in Tabasco were coerced by their husbands into undergoing surrogacy multiple times. In some cases, husbands took over the surrogacy process outside the clinic or agency structure.
“It became a personal business: instead of being under the strict orders of a clinic’s instructions, they would be directly able to organise, manage and control the resources obtained from the exploitation of their wives’ bodies.”
As far as the business involving foreigners, Lopez said it was a “form of neo-colonisation of women’s bodies”.
“You take children from Mexico, and then you don’t know what happens to them,” she said. “I mean, nobody, nobody demands any accountability regarding the whereabouts and wellbeing of these children.” ‘
‚Keith López Nares is a professor at the University of the Valley of Mexico and co-author of a 2024 study on the practice of surrogacy in Tabasco, one of the only states where the practice is regulated.
The study found that surrogacy was “a patriarchal practice of reproductive exploitation that affects the most vulnerable women living in poverty, leading them to rent their wombs as a survival strategy.
“This situation of economic vulnerability is exploited by the international and national markets as an extractive practice justified by the argument that women ‘freely’ decide to sign the surrogacy contract.”
According to Lopez Nares, some poor women in Tabasco were coerced by their husbands into undergoing surrogacy multiple times. In some cases, husbands took over the surrogacy process outside the clinic or agency structure.
“It became a personal business: instead of being under the strict orders of a clinic’s instructions, they would be directly able to organise, manage and control the resources obtained from the exploitation of their wives’ bodies.”
As far as the business involving foreigners, Lopez said it was a “form of neo-colonisation of women’s bodies”.
“You take children from Mexico, and then you don’t know what happens to them,” she said. “I mean, nobody, nobody demands any accountability regarding the whereabouts and wellbeing of these children.” ‘
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TheMiceInTheShed
VIP Member
AbnormalFrog
VIP Member
Im another one who thinks it should be banned. Infertility is sad, and I understand gay people may mourn parenthood but I dont believe being a parent is a right you should be able to buy just because you wish to.
TheMiceInTheShed
VIP Member
Commercial surrogacy should be banned
THIS ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
In spades!
It's a foul and hides trade, and commercialises women's bodies and babies. Slevery and trafficking by another name, with a very thin veneer of cheap altruism hiding the horror beneath.
Ray_of_Sunshine
VIP Member
They sound like a nice, stable couple totally suited to raising a child
This is just another part of the rent-a-uterus business deal to them - they’ve paid to use it so get to dictate what happens to it for the foreseeable and fuck the woman attached to it.
TheMiceInTheShed
VIP Member
Agree. There are many adoptive mothers/ foster mothers who are wonderful.Ok then - I’ll settle for the phrase “birth mother”
But "birth mother" is acceptable as opposed to "purchaser" or "buyer" or "commissioning individual", I suppose.
Piff paff puff
VIP Member
I find it extremely odd how celeb male couples always choose to adopt/surrogate male babies.
Popcornshovel
VIP Member
Even if the mother is treated well and willing enters into the surrogacy practice, and the child is raised well by the adoptive parents, it can still cause massive psychological harm to the child when they find out the truth.
Olivia Maurel was was surrogate baby and has called for it to be banned:
declaration-surrogacy-casablanca.org
Olivia Maurel was was surrogate baby and has called for it to be banned:
Olivia Maurel: "Surrogacy is a new form of human trafficking". - Declaration of Casablanca for the universal abolition of surrogacy - Home / Accueil
Original interview in OMNES, by Javier García Herrería-February 17, 2025 Olivia Maurel, born through surrogacy, exposes the impact of this process on the identity of children and her fight for its abolition worldwide. Olivia Maurel, an activist and key figure in the surrogacy debate, has turned...
declaration-surrogacy-casablanca.org
Lynn’ssnazzycardigan
VIP Member
Has anyone seen the story about McKenna West in America? She is a surrogate (single mom, needing to “make ends meet” per New Yorker) and they discovered the baby has HLHS. The intended parents are suing her because she has refused a termination. It’s a very serious heart condition and some parents do opt for termination as it requires almost immediate surgery with later revisions required if the baby survives (I used to work cardio thoracic surgery). This is one of those situations that exposes the horrors of surrogacy and the complete disregard for the carrying mother (I make no comment on TFMR). I’m sure there will be arguments about contracts and talk of tightening up pre-whatever agreements but what about the woman carrying the child? So much more I could say but I’m sure others will be able to point out things I haven’t even considered.
Apparently they stopped paying her at 20 weeks pregnant as that's when they wanted her to abort. Commercial surrogacy should be banned worldwideThey sound like a nice, stable couple totally suited to raising a child
catsandsoup
Well-known member
There's two videos going around of dads wondering why their babies and toddlers (always boys...) are asking for 'mom' when 'he never had a mom'. Bleak.
CrazyGiraffeLady
VIP Member
I feel like surrogacy between family/friends would be okay if there was some kind of rules in place. When people are paid for it it becomes exploitation in my view.
Nelly's mum
VIP Member
Ahh that's so sad
I remember when my son started talking, and I realised he had been talking to me for months babbling away and I hadn't realised - who's to say what this baby is expressing, he may not literally remember his mum but he could be expressing his loss and trauma.
Babies know their mum the second they are born, I remember my newborn son staring at me and turning his head to watch me as I walked around the room - this baby has lost his mum, surrogacy is so cruel.
Erling Haaland
Chatty Member
Surrogacy has come up lots on the Preston Davey thread in recent weeks and today Barrie and Scott Drewitt-Barlow have been charged with more sexual offences.
mindlessness
VIP Member
From the NYT last year: "They Answered an Ad for Surrogates, and Found Themselves in a Nightmare"
TheStrawberryThief
VIP Member
I don't have issue surrogacy when a friend or family member offers to provide the service out of goodwill and it is not a commercial arrangement.
When money is involved there is is a lot of room for exploration. Especially when people use a surrogate from another country. I worry that women in poor countries are being pressured into it, or have to other way to earn money than doing it.
People say ' it is there choice', but i think they need to ask if the women would choose to be a surrogate if they were not being paid.
I also think that are some rich people who use surrogacy as some sort of weird flex, having multiple children almost to show off how many they can afford. If a couple was genuinely struggling with fertility issues, I think they would happy to have even 1 child, but i can recall reading about rich parents who have had 21 children born in one year to different surrogates. That is not the action of someone desperate to have a child by any means, that is the actions of a show off.
I don't think banning people going abroad for surrogacy would be plausible. People who just do it anyway, better to ask for forgiveness than permission and all that.
Maybe there should be some sort of international standard set about what constitutes a minimum fair fee for it, and checks done to make sure that the women involved are getting any appropriate treatment and support they need.
When money is involved there is is a lot of room for exploration. Especially when people use a surrogate from another country. I worry that women in poor countries are being pressured into it, or have to other way to earn money than doing it.
People say ' it is there choice', but i think they need to ask if the women would choose to be a surrogate if they were not being paid.
I also think that are some rich people who use surrogacy as some sort of weird flex, having multiple children almost to show off how many they can afford. If a couple was genuinely struggling with fertility issues, I think they would happy to have even 1 child, but i can recall reading about rich parents who have had 21 children born in one year to different surrogates. That is not the action of someone desperate to have a child by any means, that is the actions of a show off.
I don't think banning people going abroad for surrogacy would be plausible. People who just do it anyway, better to ask for forgiveness than permission and all that.
Maybe there should be some sort of international standard set about what constitutes a minimum fair fee for it, and checks done to make sure that the women involved are getting any appropriate treatment and support they need.