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sassmaster3000

Chatty Member
I’m sorry, am I reading this correctly or am I hugely mistaken?
His own father is a methamphetamine user and a porn star…but his biggest concern when he heard that his son was a mass murderer, is that he might be gay??

WHAT???
America is the most backwards country in the world and nothing could convince me otherwise.
 
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paulpercy666

Chatty Member
Am I the only one who thinks the McCanns aren’t innocent?
Do I think they actually killed Madeleine? No.

Do I think they were EXTREMELY negligent parents to leave their 3 very small children alone, regardless of how far away the tapas bar was? Yes, and so I suppose to all intents and purposes they aren’t innocent, and they have to live with it.
 
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Be More Pacific

VIP Member
I've done this before but will do it every time I have to. All you need to know about Charlene Downes is contained in this article from the times written in 2013 - it's now paywalled so I've transcribed it. I would also go as far as to say that I am 99% certain that she will never be found and her case will never be solved.

Too little cared for and too little mourned

"There goes Charlene Downes, ten years ago today, skipping towards the bright lights of Blackpool. Never to be seen again.

It was late autumn, the final night of the season. During the evening, the 14-year-old was spotted in a bar at the seaside resort’s North Pier. Someone bought her a vodka and Coke. She left with a young friend. They headed for a dark, waste-strewn passageway lined on each side by the rear entrances to several takeaway food premises.

This was “Paki Alley”, where chips and alcohol were in plentiful supply for children smart enough to know that one good turn deserved another. Arcades and kebab shops were a cheap escape from teenage boredom but on that particular night, November 1, 2003, a crime took place which meant that Charlene never came home.

A decade on and the unsolved murder has barely registered with the mainstream public. By contrast, Britain’s far-right parties have taken such an interest in the Downes case that banners demanding “Justice for Charlene” were raised on football terraces by sections of hardcore fans.

Their focus was triggered by a 2007 criminal trial at which it was alleged that the child was killed by a Jordanian kebab-shop owner who later disposed of her body with the help of his Iranian business partner. No remains were discovered.

Lacking concrete proof of murder, the prosecution was built on hearsay evidence from an unreliable witness and on a police officer’s transcription of low-quality recordings from bugs placed in the flat and car of one of the suspects. Its accuracy was repeatedly challenged by the defence.

On the eve of a scheduled 2008 retrial, after the first hearing led to a hung jury, the case collapsed. Both defendants were acquitted. The far-right’s conspiracy theory — dark-skinned men getting away with the rape and murder of a white girl — gained strength in 2011 when it emerged that an unpublished police report identified more than 60 girls who were groomed for sex by Asian workers at a cluster of takeaways.

Today, Charlene’s disappearance will be marked by a memorial service in the town, organised by the British National Party. Tomorrow, its supporters will stage a demonstration against “Muslim grooming gangs”. Leading the tributes will be her parents, Robert and Karen Downes. They are cherished icons of the nationalist movement. But they sit on a hollow throne.

The truth, hidden until now, is that so many men of all creeds and colours were suspected of sexual offences against Charlene that when she first went missing the police did not know which way to turn. One of the trails led directly inside the Downes family home. Confidential witness statements, social services records and internal police reports reveal that the child protection authorities first became concerned about Charlene’s home environment in 1989, the year she was born.

Then, the family were living in the West Midlands. Police and social services launched a joint investigation because a convicted rapist, jailed three times for buggery and indecent assaults on two young girls, was a regular visitor to the house and was allowed unsupervised access to a child.

Mr Downes, now 52, was “strongly advised” by social services not to allow the man inside his home but the visits were suspected to have continued. A witness told the authorities she saw the rapist “fondling [a child] in the house and that the parents were present”. They deny that any such incident happened.

In 1998, when Charlene was 9, she and another girl alleged that they were being sexually abused by a man “trusted by Mr and Mrs Downes to take them to school”. He was charged with rape but the case collapsed when the other girl failed to give evidence.

Charlene’s parents told The Times that the man seemed trustworthy because “he had a girlfriend”. They rejected a police officer’s report that they “had some knowledge of the abuse but failed to act”.

The family moved to Blackpool in 1999 after Walsall social services threatened to prosecute the parents for wilful neglect and to have the children taken into care. In the North West, a succession of men were introduced to the family after meeting Mr Downes in local pubs. Some stayed overnight or even longer.

They included a man in his 50s who described Charlene, then 13, as his girlfriend, and a 40-year-old who later admitted to police that he paid her to carry out a sex act. Three days after Charlene vanished, a 34-year-old man, staying with the Downes family while on bail, was jailed for crimes that included indecent assaults on three young girls. He admitted indecently touching the missing child.

An account of life inside the Downes home came from an environmental health officer, visiting one morning on council business, who walked into a downstairs room to find Charlene, then 12, lying on a bed in a “skimpy” nightgown. Lying alongside her was a man in his 60s. The girl jumped up and “started to scoop a number of pound coins off the bed”. The man, “shaken and trembling”, began “pulling his trouser zip up and fastening his belt”.

In a witness statement, the council employee described his shock at “the situation I had stumbled into”. He said Charlene was quick to tell him that “it’s OK — he’s my uncle”. Mr Downes then entered the room, apparently unconcerned, and explained that the man was “a family friend”. The incident was reported to social services but “it was decided not to pursue the matter further due to lack of evidence, lack of co-operation from the family and no complaint from Charlene”.

Her parents described it as a misunderstanding. Mrs Downes blamed the council worker for being too “nosey”. They said that the man on the bed with Charlene was “a lovely, nice old man” who had merely been adjusting his trousers. Mr Downes said he did not know, at the time, that any of the men he brought home had a sexual interest in children.

The couple did not comment on a hospital doctor’s report from June 2000, when Charlene was 11, warning of suspected sexual abuse, nor on the 13 visits she made to an NHS walk-in centre over a 12-month period in 2002-03, when she regularly sought help for sexual health problems.

Her mother insisted this week that her husband always sought to protect their daughter. She described the documents seen by this newspaper as “widely exaggerated and untrue”.

This is the mother of a child who apparently made regular visits, aged 11, to a Salvation Army soup kitchen and was seen dancing for men outside a pub, aged 12. Her parents explained that she enjoyed going “to church” and often danced to “music that she liked”. It was against this background that Charlene began swapping sexual favours, during the final months of her life, with Asian and Arab takeaway workers.

The Times understands that, three months before she vanished, she was one of two girls driven by Asian men from Blackpool to a lay-by in Blackburn. There, at midnight, she walked down an alley with one of the men, returning an hour later. Back in Blackpool, she was handed an envelope. Her friend asked what was inside and was told it was “what I got for what I did in Blackburn”.

Another Asian man is known to have taken her to Manchester in an old BMW less than a week before she disappeared. Neither incident was connected to the two men who stood trial over her murder.

It can also be revealed that a week before she went missing, a white man with the “motive and opportunity to murder Charlene” gave her £40. He met her again on her final night. A police report described him as a “compulsive, perverted paedophile” living in “a squalid flat knee-deep in pornographic material of all types including those featuring young children”.

Lancashire Constabulary today announces a new investigation, pledging “an open mind” about the murder. Its inquiry will not be short of suspects. Some are white; some are not.

Evidence shows that Charlene Downes was failed throughout her life. Until now, she has also been failed in death. The reports suggest that she was let down by her parents, by care professionals, by dozens of sex abusers, by her killers and by a police force that mismanaged a murder inquiry.

Today, the BNP distorts her story to sow seeds of divisive malevolence. Too little cared for, too little mourned. She deserves better."
 
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Eureka

VIP Member
These cases are so bloody difficult because I can see both sides. I lived one side when my mum was in an abusive relationship and didn’t leave and it has messed myself and my siblings up really badly and sadly one of my sisters has followed the pattern and ended up in abusive relationships and she has children. To me, I say to her why can’t you see you’re putting the children through the same things we went through but then she will say things like ‘but I love him’ and complain to us about their behaviour but always reply and drop everything for them when they say jump. And I want to shake her! If you want to put yourself through that as a grown adult fine, I can’t stop you, but don’t put your children through it.
The children and her are fine now, but I do worry about the next guy she falls madly in love with. It seems she only measures her worth by some lowlife’s interest in her. Because once these abusers get their hooks into you then it’s so difficult to leave :(
I used to work for Women’s Aid. I remember one of my first callers was a woman who was beaten up after letting her abusive ex into her home. He’d been banging on the door for ages, police didn’t respond. So she let him in. I asked her why she did that because it seemed like the worst thing to do. She said if she hadn’t let him in, he’d have gotten in anyway and it would have been worse for her. She was always going to suffer but at least this way the suffering was minimised. That was the first time it really occurred to me that often women make choices because the alternative is far worse. The women get judged but really the problem is a society and legal system that doesn’t take abuse seriously.
 
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MyLittlePony25

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As a friend of Alex… I’m just so glad he has been found guilty and I hope he gets a whole life tariff. If it wasn’t for her, they would never have gotten this conviction. And seeing ‘sex worker’ in the title of most articles…both her and Leah were so much more than that. Women who were mothers and daughters and friends and sisters and who had dreams and ambitions.
 
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LaBlonde

VIP Member
i too don’t want to be the thread police (and i get that this is a true crime thread) but could the mccann talk go to their dedicated thread?

it seems to be one of the cases that starts huge debate and no one ever really agrees (beyond saying the children should never have been left alone obviously) and it sorta takes over. again not intending to mod though so ignore me if not 🤣
 
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Asparagus123

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Regarding Madeleine McCann the parents had just become accustomed to being neglectful in the pursuit of still carrying on their life before children
We holidayed abroad when our children were little and we would have an early tea out and then sit on the balcony, but the McCanns still wanted to be out and about enjoying tapas
The kids were in kids club all day whilst they played tennis
Its actually shocking I just had to double check how old Madeleine was and she was just 3 !! And the twins even younger 😢
I have said all along that if it was Sharon in Benidorm going out to a karaoke bar it would of been a whole different thing !!
 
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Ridandroo

Chatty Member
I really hope, and have thought of her over the years, that Shannon (and her siblings) are doing ok
I knew Shannon. She is doing really well and is a mum herself now 😊

Just editing to clarify… I knew Shannon and her family growing up, I do not have contact with Shannon currently but know some of her relatives and have seen her facebook page through mutual friends. I won’t share anything else as i do not want to compromise her privacy.
 
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the man who wrestled him to the ground confirmed that one of the drag performers whacked him in the face with their stiletto a number of times, which seems to track with how his injuries look there!

his dad sounds an absolute piece of human trash, wtf is that interview. phew he’s not gay, just a murderer.
I thought this. The Mormon Church “don’t do gay” but they clearly do drugs, drug importation, porn, and violence towards women and others 👀. It’s a bit rich him making lifestyle judgments
 
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Lalla

VIP Member
I used to work for Women’s Aid. I remember one of my first callers was a woman who was beaten up after letting her abusive ex into her home. He’d been banging on the door for ages, police didn’t respond. So she let him in. I asked her why she did that because it seemed like the worst thing to do. She said if she hadn’t let him in, he’d have gotten in anyway and it would have been worse for her. She was always going to suffer but at least this way the suffering was minimised. That was the first time it really occurred to me that often women make choices because the alternative is far worse. The women get judged but really the problem is a society and legal system that doesn’t take abuse seriously.
It isn't taken seriously.

I suffered some (relatively minor, if you can say that) physical and emotional abuse with the father of my younger child 15-20 years ago now. He was only physical with me a couple of times over those years, but regularly called me fat, lazy, disgusting, smashed my belongings, spit on me etc. I got zero help from anyone. None of my friends got involved (they all minimised it) and even when I reached out to the police on a couple of occasions they did nothing, refused to remove him from the house or even tell him to leave. I felt utterly trapped for years, and it was only once my children were a bit older and I had more available money I was able to escape by doing it all myself. I'm an intelligent, university educated woman, with a decent income, brought up in a stable, loving home; if it took me that long to get out, I can quite understand why women with fewer emotional or financial resources would feel unable to, even if the situation was far worse than mine.

It sickens me that as a society we still excuse violence and abuse; I've mentioned on here before about a family in my street where one of the (late teens) sons is regularly abusing his girlfriend in the street, calling her a whore and a slag, screaming and shouting at her. His mother is well aware, but does nothing about it, saying oh that's just teenagers/ he loves her so much etc. It makes me feel ill, I've called the police a couple of times - but predictably they never turned up. No one else around seems to bat an eye.
 
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Ametrine

VIP Member
Terri met Bendall on a dating site/app. I know most people don't meet evil murderers on apps, but there's been a few high-profile cases over the past few years where women have been murdered by men they met on apps.

It's just given these men an easier way to meet women, and access to a larger pool of women. Whereas women before might have known the man as being 'dodgy', 'bad' or someone to steer clear of if he lived in the same town or village as them, now the woman has no idea of the man behind the dating profile as he could be from a totally different county, and could be presenting himself as a different age, income bracket, profession and appearance to the reality.

I have encountered men on apps who seem great from their photos, but as soon as we start messaging, alarm bells ring as they're so persistent, aggressive or manipulative, or engage in love-bombing. I've got years of experience on apps, am good at sussing people out, and am naturally suspicious, so when I was using the apps, usually I realised what they were doing immediately and unmatched them straight away.

These men will be doing this to a lot of woman until they find one who falls for them and who they can control, and who can offer them housing/shelter, sex, access to resources etc. It's worse if a woman has been in a long term relationship and doesn't have experience of apps, and how many people misrepresent themselves on them.

I don't know what the answer is. More education about dating apps and safety, and how to spot a controlling and bad man? Do the companies behind the apps need to take more responsibility? Do we need to tell women (and make it socially acceptable) that being single is often better than being in a bad relationship with an awful man, and that if you have kids, you need to be doubly aware? I know the latter is easier said than done, as most humans crave emotional and physical contact from a significant other. Life is also less expensive for a couple than a single person, which might also influence the decisions some people make.

I don't know why Terri stayed with him so long, but I've never had experience of DV and I have no idea of the situation she was in, and the difficulties she faced. I know she tried to move away from him, but he came back into her life. He just wouldn't let go, as it was a good situation for him. Although Bendall had a criminal history, it seems few expected him to be capable of committing the violence that he wreaked that day.

Reading about this case yesterday badly affected me, it's one of the worst crimes in the UK that I've ever read about. The photos of all the three beautiful and smiling children which have been published just make it even worse.
 
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Ametrine

VIP Member
This is a phenomenally insightful post

This kind of information should be on the national curriculum
Thanks @popb1tch.

If this is of use to anyone reading, I'd say my experience on apps has taught me the following:

1) Don't meet up with the man the same day you match, and in fact try and delay it for a few days until you get to know them more. Be very careful of anyone trying to get to get you to meet them immediately, that's a red flag and a sign they only want sex or worse - they have a compulsion and need you to fulfil it. A decent man will understand your fears and will want to make sure you're comfortable (but even if he does this, it doesn't mean he's safe - still keep your wits about you and your guard up).

2) Don't give out your phone number if you're not sure, and keep the conversation on the app. I actually had a male friend who was stalked by a girl he met on the app, and now he doesn't give his number out to anyone he meets on an app until after he's met them in person, and he's sure about them.

3) Maintain your boundaries, and don't be afraid to say 'no'. Your boundaries could be anything from not wanting to engage in sexual conversation, to wanting someone who speaks in proper sentences. It doesn't matter what they are, they're your boundaries. If someone is making you feel uncomfortable, screenshot the conversation for evidence and then unmatch them.

4) Don't link your social media accounts to your dating profile. This is so you can't be stalked by people you match with and then reject, or even people you didn't match with, but have tracked you down from seeing your profile on the app.

5) If the man opens with compliments about your appearance and engages in excess flattery and is too charming, be careful. It's often a sign they are trying to manipulate and love-bomb you, or they only care about sex. A decent guy is more likely to speak to you about shared interests or funny anecdotes.

6) Be very suspicious of anyone who seems too good to be true. That can vary according to what you value, but for example if they're good-looking, list a good university on their profile, boast of having a good job, show off about being rich and having a wealthy lifestyle, then be on your guard.

Are all good-looking, educated and wealthy people suspicious? No, of course not. But often devious men on apps will lie about one or more of these things, or will use these things to get what they want. Some of them might be married and are cheating on their wives. Truly successful and decent men are more likely to want to hide their rich lifestyles so they don't attract a gold-digger.

7) If they ask for money, or have an 'exciting investment opportunity' or talk about crypto, report them and unmatch immediately. They're a scammer.

8) Google them and use reverse image search. I was staying in the regions for a few weeks and came across a guy who claimed he was a banker working for a notable US firm, yet he was based in a northern town. I knew that was rubbish as this company only has offices in London. I used google reverse image search and found the pictures had been stolen from an Instagram account.

Googling them could also reveal if they have a criminal background - provided they're given you their real name.

9) Don't drink too much on your first few dates, so you can keep your wits about you. I had a very bad experience once after I was plied with drink on a first date. I did blame myself for being too trusting and for not being more cautious. He knew what he was doing and it was probably a method that he'd deployed several times. Also, always meet in a public place until you trust them. Never meet up at either of your respective homes until you get to know them. Never get into a car driven by them until you know them better too.

10) Always start from a position of slight mistrust. Anyone can claim to be anyone on these apps. It's up to them to convince you otherwise, and this will come with time, and as they provide more information about themselves to you. Do as much research on them as possible - use Google, Facebook, LinkedIn etc. It's rare that someone doesn't have some sort of digital footprint these days. If you have a bad feeling in your gut about them, trust this and pay attention to it.

Edited to add - I don't have kids so am not able to give tips on how to protect yourself and your kids from men on apps. If anyone reading here has experience of this, please add your thoughts.
 
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TheOpposite

Active member
I’m getting quite angry at these stories being shared about how women are being harassed going about our everyday lives. The CCTV footage of Sweeney is absolutely sickening. It could have have any of us. I’d love to just drop kick the bastard.

The fact that we all have stories of losers who think it’s their goddamn given right to harass women. I have one right now who bothers me at work. Work! He’s a client, I was his solicitor but he started talking crap and I ‘gave’ him to my colleague. He stills tries to see me, comes in every bloody Friday. I rush to my car, I always look over my shoulder if I’m popping out at lunch, I told him I was married, told him I have kids, told him blah blah blah - always polite. My colleagues have done the same. But tomorrow, I’m alone in the office. Three colleagues are in court, two others are off, we’re closing, it’s Christmas, so I’m there to man the place before we close - and I’m bolting the door. And I’m so bloody mad I feel at risk because some man wont take no for an answer. 😡
 
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MissTeddy

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SS are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Every time a child is killed by their parents they are slammed. They remove a baby from a situation they believe could escalate to that point - they are slammed. The threshold to from a child from its parents is extremely high, they can’t just take a baby because they feel like it - this isnt a stasi state.
 
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NeverEnough

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It is quite laughable that now he is trying to appear to be noble. “I fessed up and I’m not all bad”. Right. You killed four people plus an unborn child and committed multiple atrocities on a defenceless little girl who must have spent the last few minutes of her life in agony, confusion, and abject terror, probably because all you ever cared about was yourself and drugs. Dude you are an absolute scumbag who should have been drowned at birth, and you have absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Even on the arrest video he was only thinking about himself. “I’m going back to prison”. Aww poor flower.

Have I made my feelings towards this thing clear….
 
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LaBlonde

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The shooter must have been severely beaten, he looks very injured in those photos. In the video he doesn’t look all there, is he on medication or something?
the man who wrestled him to the ground confirmed that one of the drag performers whacked him in the face with their stiletto a number of times, which seems to track with how his injuries look there!

his dad sounds an absolute piece of human trash, wtf is that interview. phew he’s not gay, just a murderer.
 
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NeverEnough

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I know it’s the Daily Mail but this article has a bit more in-depth about his past and quotes from someone who knew him. Still says there was no motive and it says it is a big escalation from his previous crimes but there’s history of animal cruelty which is always a big red flag ☹

With the Mail you always have to approach with a pinch of salt, however reading that just made me think WTF was the mother thinking. A jobless ex-con addict with a tendency for violence who funded his habit by stealing off her. And she had multiple warnings about him from those closest to him. I don’t know how many more red flags she needed to perhaps realise that this guy didn’t have long term potential. I mean what future did she envisage with him, for her, her kids and her unborn kid? I know love can be blind, but it doesn’t need to be completely lobotomised. Are some women so desperate to not be alone they will enter a relationship with literally anyone, and tolerate any level of abuse?

I’ve attended my fair share of violent domestic‘s in, shall we say, “low income and low aspiration” neighbourhoods. Couples of all shapes and sizes. But what struck me almost universally was the thinly disguised contempt the beater (always the man in my experience) has for the beatee. And how often the victim mistakes sex for ”love”. I often wanted to scream “He’s using you as a receptacle! Can you not see that?”. It was bloody tragic.
 
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Octopies

Chatty Member
Tip for if you’re struggling, first name is the same as a model of French car.

Such a shame really. Countless lives ruined for fuck all in the long run.

Tip for if you’re struggling, first name is the same as a model of French car.

Such a shame really. Countless lives ruined for fuck all in the long run.
Not me looking for someone called Renault 😂🙃

Found it now tho thanks everyone
 
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Eureka

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I would be amazed if he had not physically (or sexually) abused the children before. How terrifying to have this violent drug addict sudd join your family. He stole their washing machine to buy drugs …. As a mother at that point surely you say that this is not an appropriate person to be around your children.
She might not have felt she had a choice. Women in DV relationships don’t stay because they are weak or stupid.
 
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