Lucy Letby Case #14

[Haveyouanywool]

Nurse KPC seems to have been very worried about these events as she was having sleepless nights. She also said she was trying to work them out. This gives me the impression that these events must have been unusual and not easily dismissed. There must have been a lot of chat amongst the staff.

 

[OldBlondie]

She might be though. It just depends how convinced the jury are on each count.

*I'm not being argumentative, sorry. It can be really hard on here sometimes because if we were in a room with each other it would just be a chat. The written word can make it seem snappy almost.

I agree Fella, personally I’ve now decided if I’m writing something that may come across as snappy (as you’re right it’s very difficult and the written word can come across the wrong way) I’ll throw the word Fella into the sentence, as I think that shows you’re not trying to be argumentative, or don’t want to be taken the wrong away and it’s all good, you are just having a chat like you would if in same room. I’ve honestly never been so glad of the “original fellas” post because I really think it’s great for things like this, and just lightening the mood when needed in general. Also just to add, I don’t mean that you are coming across the wrong way or suggesting anything like that to you, I’m just saying in general in case it helps anyone else

 

[avabella]

A communication 'mix up' of that scale is jus incredibly careless. How horrific for the mother.

 

[MmmB777]

They came to this conclusion without the post-it note, the social media searches, the sympathy card and so much more.

Exactly exactly exactly my fella. It cannot be bad luck and it cannot be chance. In her words. She’s evil. She did this. She killed them on purpose. I cannot wait to say what I really want to say about her.

 

[MmmB777]

Of course the word fella is used a lot, just looked it up in the dictionary and it has multiple definitions.. I’ll copy and paste:
Fella -
- a term of endearment for a fellow fella obsessed with the same thing as you
- somebody that has had to admit to an occasional browse in matalan
- sometimes translates to mean ‘I know you have an opposite point of view to me but I want you to know you’re a fella and not a twat’

Not a nice fella - although the original use and meaning of this phrase is unknown, the words ‘not’ ‘a’ and ‘nice’ can be used as a prefix to the word Fella and it can take on a whole new meaning entirely. It could mean you’re either a serial killer, a dodgy defence lawyer, someone that owns kitten heels or someone frazzled by other fella’s grammar.

 

[DairyleaD]

I really believe she's guilty. I think she's an incredibly sly, spiteful, calculating individual and gets off on the attention and drama of it all. She enjoys watching the parents grieve. Not sure if she's a psychopath, more likely a sociopath or a narcissist with a personality disorder. She's done this, I have no doubt about it.

 

[candyland_]

Could she have hidden the sheet so that it delayed the resuscitation? I’m assuming it would take extra time to calculate the correct doses and every second counts. It just gives me the impression of sabotage when paired with everything else.

 

[I’mThankyou_]

Anyone else cringing at the fella joke getting dragged out?

No sorry fella, it's used as a way so our fellow tattlers know we aren't being rude to them as it's hard to put your tone across on the Internet. Its stopped many arguments amongst ourselves.
Have a good day fella

 

[FastAndTheCurious7]

I don’t think this Ben fella has anything up his sleeve. It’s not like a TV drama where in the closing statement he has the “gotcha moment” he would have had to present all the evidence at the start. They can’t just suddenly drop a bombshell. My personal opinion is that he believes she’s guilty so is doing his best to be professional and give her a fair trial

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

Also guys I’ve just read child L’s blood sugar levels were low not high at birth ( my mistake) !
Child L's blood glucose level was noted to be low and he was treated with a dextrose infusion”
So actually for child L he wouldn’t of ever needed insulin and was never prescribed insulin at any point!! . Also the insulin was added to the dextrose bag which was being used to correct his low blood sugar.

I think this is why it is agreed it can’t have been given accidentally, he never needed it, it can’t be accidental -She agreed the insulin could not have been administered accidentally, but denied being responsible.

 

[candyland_]

Absolutely. And staggeringly it’s not just her shift correlating- on an extremely large amount of these charges she was there giving an intervention just before or she is found on her own with the victim (again a theme of these crimes). There are some horrifying examples of this as we go on. She is found in the dark with a baby just standing there letting the baby desaturate. There is a baby that is heavily sedated (extremely unlike to have pulled own breathing equipment out) and she is found with the baby on her own while it desaturates with its breathing tubes having been pulled out, standing there doing nothing. It’s too much. Way, way too much you have to explain away in each scenario and then there are two concrete poisonings. It fits completely and she can not be this unlucky.

There was also a monitor found to be switched off.

And this week there was a nurse that gave evidence saying that she heard an alarm go off for an unknown baby and LL told her off for seeking help. Was she going to stand there and just watch the baby desaturate?

I think she had been harming babies in very small ways that went unnoticed and she’s built up to what we’ve been hearing over the past month.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

Also I’ve just been reading and it appears baby E and baby F did have slightly high blood sugar and were given ‘tiny amounts of insulin’ after birth. The important thing here though is this corrected, child F didn’t need insulin any more on the days where he was attacked. By this point sadly Baby E had already died (august 4th), so no baby on the ward was prescribed insulin at that point.
Some may think that this may suggest ‘oh well it could have been accidental, Baby F needed a tiny dose of insulin after birth, what if a nurse just accidentally gave too much thinking he needed it’. However, these babies were born in July and the insulin incident happened on August the 5th by this point he didn’t need insulin anymore. I think the fact these babies needed insulin at one point gave her the idea, means and opportunity, in her opinion, for the perfect crime.



I just wanted to clear that up as I think my comment earlier made it seem that insulin on the ward was really random. I still don’t think it makes much difference though, as when baby F was poisoned he wasn’t on insulin any more. The evidence suggest’s a few times this was just after birth. I think rather what it highlights is just how Letby used each situation to her advantage!

 

[crumpets2]

I’m sure there’s a nurse on here that had said sometimes they’d made notes on paper towels, so not that rare? Also agree with what you have said. No one is disputing there are MANY faults and problems on this unit, but from reading a lot of others’ experiences on here, what may sound kinda horrific to some (non health professionals) actually is maybe not as bad as it sounds to some that work in healthcare, and it seems like various similar incidents happen at hospitals across the uk, especially when it’s an emergency situation or staff are under pressure. Afterall we are all only human, there is always room for error. Not trying to downplay the phone call mix up, as that must have been awful for parents, but agree with your point that it doesn’t equal poor medical care as such. I think the main thing people have to keep in mind; is there can be a sub standard unit, with sick babies that have underlying problems, AND a murderer (one that seems to take full advantage of the babies’ underlying conditions and the fact that it’s a sub standard unit, sometimes that has staffing level problems)

In a resus situation you do just grab anything to scribe on so it can be written in retrospect in the patients notes after. You wouldn’t be expected to be writing official notes as events are happening it’s just unrealistic.
Also yes I agree. Poor care, poor communication, unwell babies AND a murderer. These can all unfortunately exist together. I’m appalled at some of the lapses in care, but it hasn’t been enough to convince me yet that suboptimal care is the reason for all of this.

 

[Wackie Jeaver]

Going back to whether staff should/could have spotted signs sooner/take earlier action.

I think it must be a bloody huge leap to even consider the possibility that the (maybe slightly odd) colleague you've worked with for months or years is actually a baby killer. Surely if the thought even crossed your mind you'd dismiss it until later on in the process, when you start to perhaps add up the dots. But even then, it would still be hugely difficult to make that leap. IMO

 

[Treesy19]

I’ve leant towards guilty for a long time now but today even more so. I think she thought she was very clever, picking tiny babies as victims who were reliant on extra care to get by. She didn’t need to go far to get contact with a victim, she had them right under her nose for easy pickings. And even better, she thought, they would be silent victims. No struggle. She thought she’d struck the perfect murder balance of: murder and then some calm as to not raise suspicions at her door, after all, if there was a death every single week she knew that would simply be too much so she picked her targets, and knew not always to pick her own designated patient.
These are just the ones we know about, the ones they had enough to bring charges against her.
She is one evil individual.

 

[Tofino]

Well this is interesting given baby D wasn’t Lucy’s? Also not the second.

 

[docmum]

Insulin would never be put in to a bag. It would be given directly as a bolus (more usual in adult patients) or as part of a ‘sliding scale’ where it is administered via a syringe pump to ensure it is given in exact amounts per minute. This can be adjusted according to repeated blood sugar readings and the insulin infusion always has a bag of dextrose saline along side it which is adjusted in rate as per blood glucose reading also. Insulin is not just used to correct blood sugar abnormalities but can also be given to correct electrolyte imbalance.
Incorrect interpretation of an insulin dose is deemed a ‘never event’. Prescribing for example ‘10 u’ rather than ‘10 units’ is now considered a prescribing error within hospital medicine as the former could be potentially misread as ‘100’. The difference in her giving units and mls for insulin would be nigh on impossible as a qualified independent nurse who would have had to meet insulin administration sign offs to obtain her degree. In general, prescribing errors are made because all parties are in some way at fault - in a world where humans are giving medical care rather than machines this will never be eliminated. A huge part of what can be expected as reasonable error is looking at patterns and the unusual numbers of death in her care are highly relevant therein.

 

[Faith61]

That’s utterly bizarre, I’d have thought the fb huns would be wanting her blood

One of them suggested setting up a go fund me for when she's released the other week

 

[Milktray]

I can see people even believing that she could be innocent on some of these babies but surely by time we get to Baby Q you have to look at the chances of all these babies dying when she’s present.

If I recall, the prosecution implied that the evidence becomes more clear and it gets worse as the trial proceeds.
The more this went on, the more confident (and therefore more sloppy) she became and I think that's going to start showing soon.
I'm seriously interested in her later text messages, not because I think its strong evidence but out of curiosity.

 

[MmmB777]

I think the clusters in Facebook searches are interesting, where she’s searched for 3 sets of parents in a row.

For example, on the 5th October she searched for the parents of baby I, twins E and F, and then baby H. All in quick succession. Why?

Baby I did not die until 23rd October (there had been one attempt before the mentioned search), and baby H survived (2 attempts in Sept) So why is she searching them all at the same time? If she’s innocent, why does it appear that in her mind, there is a link between them?

This was before suspicions were raised and she was moved to day shifts. So I don’t see why an innocent person would link these 3 families at this point.

Thank you for taking the time to look up which sets as I keep repeating this but hadn’t had time to find it to share properly yet. To me that is incredible because yes- if these events are so normal and unrelated why the fuck has Letby grouped them and linked them already - because she knew then exactly what we know now, they are linked. And I believe they’re linked by her attempting to and successfully killing them. Her lack of answers on it only helps confirm that to me.