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AngryBird

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I've watched them all through the recipe years from very early on. The food was interesting but they both struggled with weight badly. It's been terrible seeing their cancer diagnoses. I was also very shocked when the baby suddenly happened at what seemed liked the worse time to make such a decision. My dad died of kidney cancer so reading through this thread has been an eye opener and quite sad 😔 I understand now a bit more why his decline was so fast on the last 9 months of his life. I couldn't understand why treatment was minimal after a certain point but I get it now. It's a horrible thing to see.

I wish them all the best. I see them as flawed but genuine people, not grifters. I found this after Bryan mentioned a forum. I was on Tattle anyway but my heart sank when he mentioned it as I thought it might be here. I hope Jessica is coping OK, she's not on the video update so I'm guessing she's not up to being on camera and fair enough.
 
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Saydee

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Just starting to watch their latest video.

I can't recall, do they usually lag between events and posting? I'm just noticing he said the biopsy was May 2nd and nephrectomy was May 9th. They posted the "going for a biopsy" on May 12th, so, they not only already knew the results of the biopsy when they posted it, but the nephrectomy was also already over with. So, this most recent video of May 19th was 10 days past the actual surgery.

I recall there were weeks' lag when they were going to visit their surrogate/cousin and Elsie's arrival and when they'd post about it. I'm just not recalling this lag during Jessica's medical journey.

Have they always had such a lag in turnaround time?

Happy the surgery went well and he is very comfortable with his medical team. Am interested in how @Saydee interprets his results.
@suzeq I feel very sorry for them both. Both of them will now be having regular scans to check for recurrence. It's awful for both of them, especially now that they are a little family with Elsie.
3 recommendations I would make to brian.
Don't google RCC, the info and stats are completely out of date. Any paper/post prior to 2018 is out of date. Since 2018 the stats have improved thanks to immunotherapy which extends life for some patients (many still don't respond to immunotherapy though)
Data and Google suggest RCC is an old mans disease and this upsets me. It's not why I see with RCC patients and even RCC clinics. I agree that it affects more males than it does females, but it is no longer an older mans disease. It is patients of all ages.

2) Join the USA smart patient website. It's genuine RCC patients with clinicians on board. They sign post the best possible kidney cancer hospitals and treatment info is real time.

3) If I was brian I would ask my oncologist to be referred to the genetics clinic to have a look at mutations. With him having clear cell he may have VHL mutation, if so, there is a new treatment specific for those with the VHL mutation. Brian may have Von Hippel-Lindau syndrome.

After Brians had his tumour removed it will be sent to the path lab. From there they use the Fuhrman or ISUP/WHO grading system to give Brian an exact grade. If necrosis is present inside his tumour or if there is microvascular invasion, he will be moved from his current grade.
When the exact grade is known, he will be given a percentage chance of recurrence. Grade 3's are usually 40% chance of recurrence in the next 3 years.
Here in the UK grade 3 & 4's are often offered immunotherapy to try prevent a recurrence. Due to Brians age I do believe he would be offered 'adjuvent' immunotherapy. The UK started offering this to high risk patients following success from the RAMPART TRIAL. The belief is that high risk patients that have adjuvant immunotherapy for 1 year have less chance of a recurrence.
However, my husband had great success with an immunotherapy trial, he reached NED! Immunotherapy killed all of his tumours, but sadly RCC showed up again. It's a sneaky cancer. It mutates to evade attack from treatment and those mutations eventually become treatment resistant.

On a positive note: I know of a few middle aged patients that had stage 2/3 with high grades 3 and 4. They have remained NED for over 10 years since their nephrectomy.
On a negative note: I know of patients that have been NED for 10+ years but younger patients often end up on dialysis. Older patients can live fine with one kidney until they die. Younger RCC patients with one kidney often end up dialysis. Brian will need to look after his kidney. Look after his kidney function, control his blood pressure. Reduce protein intake because protein isn't good for RCC patients with one kidney.
Worldwide RCC researchers advise clinics to advise patients to stick with the rainbow diet or the colourful Mediterranean diet.
Drink lots of water to keep that kidney flushing. Reduce salt is absolutely necessary. One kidney as to do the work of 2 kidneys.
And no iburoprofen. Many anti inflammatory medications impact kidney function so GP's don't prescribe.

If Brian was older I wouldn't be concerned for him. His age concerns me, especially when RCC likes to come back. It tends to spread long before nephrectomy takes place and can take years to show itself. I saw some talk on a video, people discussing clean margins? Clean margins mean nothing. Tiffany a perfect example..... Clean margins after surgery but it was sat there in her lung quietly.
Only time will tell for Brian. Future CT scans. Adjuvent immunotherapy is available to UK patients 3 months after partial or full nephrectomy, I hope this is available in the USA.
Most nephrectomys are now done by keyhole surgery or robotics, his recovery will be quick. Some patients need a rib removed during surgery, others don't.
 
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Saydee

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Great news that his hospital are on the ball. They have basically done equivalent to what UK oncology clinics do with younger RCC patients. Genetic studies.
A FiSH study ( fluorescent in situ hybridization). Brian was negative which means he doesn't have any of the rarer forms of RCC often found in RCC patients.
Still a massive concern for Brian though being grade 4. It's the highest grade possible and it means that although he had a standard RCC, it is acting and growing aggressively.
This actually confirms that Brian doesn't have the typical slow growing RCC. It grows aggressively. It actually makes me wonder if Brian developed RCC through stress of what he went through with Jessica.

Like I said and like Brian has now been told. There is no chemotherapy or radiation therapy available for RCC, because RCC doesn't respond. I believe that's because chemo is designed to kill fast dividing cells, but what makes RCC different to other cancers is that its cells divide very slowly. This makes chemo and radiotherapy useless.
Immunotherapy Keytruda & Yervoy or Opdivo & Yervoy ( UK names pembrolizumab & Ipilimumab) & Nivolumab & Ipilimumab can work on some patients with RCC. I believe Brians made the right decision so far. Not using immunotherapy yet. I had meetings with a Professor of RCC at the Christie - Professor Hawkins (now retired) and he told me to imagine you have one bullet. You have cancer (enemy) and one single bullet. When to use that bullet? When there is nothing there (microscopic) or when it's aggressive and spreading?
Grade 4 as a tendency to spread down the line. I would wait until something appears (if) and maybe down the line there will be more treatments (and better tolerated).
If Brian uses immunotherapy now, his disease will mutate and become resistant to immunotherapy down the line. Save it until its absolutely def needed.
I feel sorry for both Brian and Jessica. I hope Brian does make massive lifestyle changes and he is one of the lucky ones that doesn't have a recurrence. I truly do. I lost my husband to this beast. He had a trial of immunotherapy which worked wonders for him (got him to NED) but microscopic disease was still lurking and his cancer was then resistant to immunotherapy. We had nothing left to use.
 
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girlwhowrites

Active member
When I heard they used a cousin as a surrogate mother, my first reaction was to be happy that they didn’t exploit some poor woman from another country like a lot of people do, but my second reaction was that it might lead to a whole lot of mess. So many people enter these arrangements thinking everyone’s going to be cool with it — the surrogate mother won’t get attached and the biological mother won’t get jealous or insecure — and yet drama often arises because these emotions pop up anyway no matter what the original intentions were.
 
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Elpis

Well-known member
I know that Jessica will be kind about the surrogacy. I shouldn't say it, but I got the feeling that Haley Odlozil was sort of jealous of her surrogate mom. She mentioned her several times early on but then she was never mentioned again, not on her son's birthdays or anything - though I think it was a friend and not a stranger. Anyway, Jessica (and hubby) seem like genuinely kind/sweet people, but didn't she mention that he wouldn't be able to make it without a "part of her" to carry on? They had one male and two female embryos - were it me, I would have thought a boy might be better for a single dad, but again, I shouldn't say that as it's probably sexist. Sorry - bear with me, I'm 68 years young and can't always keep up with the Zeitgeist.
 
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Saydee

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I think Jessica would have a nervous breakdown if she discovered she had a thread on Tattle. Silly stupid teasing on her channel caused a mental health decline. Very fragile lady.
 
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TryingMyBest

Chatty Member
I've watched them since the beginning of their channel and even before cancer Jessica seem to barely cope with life and Brian was always propping her up while walking on eggshells to not trigger her.
 
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Saydee

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Just watched the update video. I’m a bit confused but it seems like overall he’s in a good place? I’m a bit confused as to whether he’s cancer-free now that he’s had the surgery, because from what I understood the disease hadn’t spread anywhere else. Is the treatment he’s thinking of having now more of a preventive measure so it doesn’t come back?
A good place? RCC is extremely sneaky. I personally don't think Brian is in a good place. Brian is in unknown territory and will be for many years. Old data suggested 5 years of clean scans then a patient can be considered cured, sadly that data was incorrect. Many patients developing recurrences beyond the 5 years. New recommendation is 10 years of clean scans.
CT scans haven't showed further spread, but CT scans and no scans for that matter can spot microscopic spread. This is the reason why high-risk patients require scans every 12 weeks, microscopic spread takes time to show itself as a tumour.
Brians cancer is grade 4 which makes him at high risk of recurrence because grade 4 cells act aggressively.
Recent data following a UK trial has found that immunotherapy can be useful as adjuvant therapy, ie preventative. Immunotherapy trains your own immune system to fight and kill off cancer even when its microscopic.
Technically Brian could have treatment now and it could kill any microscopic cells. The 'but' and there is a 'but', there is also a risk. Immunotherapy doesn't work forever and it can't be given forever. As a preventative its prescribed for 12 months. However, patients become resistant to immunotherapy eventually. What does that mean? It means cancer cells mutate to evade attack. If Brian had immunotherapy and later had a recurrence, immunotherapy probably wouldn't work for him.
The question/risk. Use immunotherapy when there might be no disease present or alternatively when microscopic disease is present (nobody can know for sure) only time will tell. Or save immunotherapy for if tumours show up down the line.
 
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TryingMyBest

Chatty Member
I watched them for years because because I thought they were quirky and odd but entertaining. Their highly restrictive food plan was obviously not sustainable and they just kept yo-yoing up and down but they were honest.

The quick decision to have a child when Jessica is still getting over the trauma of her cancer ordeal makes me less inclined to think they are, as poor Sarah would say, making good choices.
 
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Saydee

VIP Member
@suzeq
@Saydee you are so brave and selfless to use you and your husband's experience to educate us.

It helps us to understand what Brian is facing.

Thank you. ❤
I must be getting soft because I actually filled up seeing Brian after surgery, and Jessica and Elsie waiting for him :( Isn't it a cruel horrid disease!

I can't even imagine how difficult it must be for Brian. He was Jessicas carer/advocate for so long, and now he is the patient himself. Both on active surveillance and living in hope that scans will be clear for both of them.

Brian if you read here, please join https://www.smartpatients.com/communities/kidney-disease
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I noticed that Jessica is back to being grossly overweight too. Some scenes of her, from behind, pushing the baby stroller. I just don't understand these two. Both with cancer yet Jessica seems heavier now than before her diagnosis. Brian still quite heavy too. I hope he sticks to his weight loss promise. But if Jessica is overeating, that will be hard for him too.
I did wonder the same ladyt but I wonder if now having Elsie makes it easier for them to slack off healthy food options.
I hope Elsie and both cancers spur them both on to make changes and get themselves in the best shape possible.
I hate to say this but being overweight is a known cause of RCC. In a recent annual global RCC survey the results spoke volumes. Patients are asked about their age, stages, grades, treatments to date, if they had partial kidney removal or full nephrectomy. It then looks at symptoms they experienced before their diagnosis and looks at lifestyle. Smoking? Have they ever smoked? Diet, Weight, Blood pressure etc. A whooping 87% of RCC patients stated they were overweight at diagnosis. It speaks volumes to me because its such a high number of patients.

Brian losing weight and keeping weight off will certainly be beneficial for him.
 
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shragae

Active member
I noticed that Jessica is back to being grossly overweight too. Some scenes of her, from behind, pushing the baby stroller. I just don't understand these two. Both with cancer yet Jessica seems heavier now than before her diagnosis. Brian still quite heavy too. I hope he sticks to his weight loss promise. But if Jessica is overeating, that will be hard for him too.

I would guess that she is an emotional eater and she certainly has a reason to be stressed.
 
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TryingMyBest

Chatty Member
Their current living situation (confined to it seems a small space in Brian’s parents’ basement) is probably the main thing that’s throwing me off about the decision to have a baby. Even if they lived in just a small apartment it would be a better setup. They definitely don’t seem to have a whole lot of money in savings and with how expensive raising a kid is, they probably won’t be able to buy a house for a long time.

I also wonder if they discussed it with Brian’s parents? Just allowing Brian and Jessica to move into their house was a big favor that has probably changed how they used to live their day-to-day lives in their own home. As cute as babies are, they cry constantly. Unless the basement is soundproof their parents are going to have to deal with the crying too.
And the two dogs not to mention 12 bajillion stuffies!
 
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Daisychain4

VIP Member
I've seen the photos of the house when it was for sale. It looks perfectly fine. The listing says 2 bathrooms. I think a full bathroom upstairs and another in the finished basement. How can 2 toilets break at once? Can't they afford a plumber?
I guess it begs the question of why they need to advertise this fact? For donations?
Interesting how cancer vloggers who had a story to tell and who actually did it well are now producing poor content to keep the money coming because their cancer is in remission… you’d think they would be living the life fantastic because of their wonderful outcomes and spending their time smelling the roses rather than lowering themselves to this crap.
 
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Saydee

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I lost my husband to renal cell carcinoma. RCC doesn't show up in urine and it doesn't show any abnormalities in urine samples, which is what makes RCC a very difficult to spot cancer. Not sure what Brian means when he refers to urine samples. If caught early it can be cured with nephrectomy alone. Anything below 4cm is considered to be small. 6cm is a medium-sized tumour. The biopsy will show the grading of the cancer (if it is RCC),if it is aggressive depending on the Furhman grade, they can offer adjuvant immunotherapy (at least here in the UK they do) pembrolizumab.
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I haven't watched it yet. They don't know what stage it is yet?
Staging for kidney cancer is a little different to other cancer. Brians states the size is 6cm x 6cm which if it hasn't spread to nearby lymph nodes or breached the kidney, it would make him stage T1B
What I do know is that size is irrelevant, its positioning that's important. My husband had a small renal tumor which was positioned close to the middle pole, it grew and invaded the inferior vena cava. Had it been in a different position he would have likely been alive today.
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Fully finished watching his video now and he is correct. The info that he's been told, it could have been there for many many years. My husbands oncologist predicted via the growth rates that he had RCC since late teens or very early 20's. Brians tumor could have been growing for many years. He wasn't symptomatic (no blood in his wee) and it was an incidental find whilst looking for something else.
I do wish Brian the best. Although a full kidney removal isn't as plain sailing as its made out to be! Brian would have to look after the one remaining kidney. Many Kidney cancer patients that have full nephrectomy end up with low EGFR, unable to tolerate the contrast used in CT scans, and other complications with high urea and high creatinine. People can live with one kidney but care needs to be taken with the remaining kidney.
 
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mayday mayday

Chatty Member
It's true that obesity is a known risk factor for renal cancer, as is smoking and hypertension (I don't know if Brian has high blood pressure). The other thing it could be is an oncocytona, which is a benign tumor. If it IS cancer the docs won't know the pathological stage until it's removed and then it's staged based on size and whether or not it has extended into the tissues surrounding the kidney. The surgeons usually don't take out any lymph nodes during a nephrectomy; and Brian didn't say the docs saw any enlarged nodes on the CT scan.

PLUS ..he has some other medical issues that have to be put on hold for now. I'm hoping it's an oncocytoma and once it's gone then he can get that large polyp removed before it misbehaves.
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Going back to the colonoscopy ... the GI doc can remove smaller polyps with a snare device but for larger polyps ... about 3 cm or larger ... those have to be surgically removed... they cannot be removed during a colonoscopy. The GI doc will tattoo the polyp so that the Gi surgeon can locate it during the surgical procedure.
 
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Petro48

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They seem to be more concerned on whether or not the implant would be successful (re: scar tissue) than on any risk to Tess. I think that a second opinion on Tess's health, is more than warranted. There are really many issues that I can't completely wrap my mind around. Like Mom and Dad are both cancer patients. Plus, they've just spent the last two videos explaining the difficulty they're both having making positive improvements in their health. I suppose its none of my business but they put it out there. The whole thing seems kinda strange.
 
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TryingMyBest

Chatty Member
Yes agree. I remember things being very dire pre and post second surgery and the projected prognosis appeared grim. Then results were released and they were fantastic (which was indeed fantastic for Jessica) but very puzzling given the prelude. Since then it’s been quiet on their front but seemingly Jessica is still in a good place cancer wise.
I would have many questions if I was her and wonder if they did in fact have lots of questions for her surgeons?
She definitely had strange stuff going on. Didn't she have ovarian cancer and uterine cancer? And what ever happened about her ureter that was wrapped in cancer that couldn't be removed? She also had I think lots of liver lesions. Did they ever figure out what actially caused those? She was a complicated case.
Good thing she went to Mayo.
 
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Turaj

VIP Member
I noticed that Jessica is back to being grossly overweight too. Some scenes of her, from behind, pushing the baby stroller. I just don't understand these two. Both with cancer yet Jessica seems heavier now than before her diagnosis. Brian still quite heavy too. I hope he sticks to his weight loss promise. But if Jessica is overeating, that will be hard for him too.
Brian seems very serious...with just one kidney working he has to have some massive weight loss. I hope he is working with a dietitian to get a balanced diet because what they have been doing just does not work.
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I've watched them all through the recipe years from very early on. The food was interesting but they both struggled with weight badly. It's been terrible seeing their cancer diagnoses. I was also very shocked when the baby suddenly happened at what seemed liked the worse time to make such a decision. My dad died of kidney cancer so reading through this thread has been an eye opener and quite sad 😔 I understand now a bit more why his decline was so fast on the last 9 months of his life. I couldn't understand why treatment was minimal after a certain point but I get it now. It's a horrible thing to see.

I wish them all the best. I see them as flawed but genuine people, not grifters. I found this after Bryan mentioned a forum. I was on Tattle anyway but my heart sank when he mentioned it as I thought it might be here. I hope Jessica is coping OK, she's not on the video update so I'm guessing she's not up to being on camera and fair enough.
I do think he was talking about TL forum. They are definitely not the norm for YT. I did not think much about Jessica not being there..he mentioned she is working non stop ...helping him and of course a mother. Brian has a tough decision to make on the immunotherapy. It really is so much for a young couple with a new baby. I wish them the best.
 
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Turaj

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One more thing that bothers me as I realize the timeline here...implantation took place back in Feb. about 1.5 months post surgery when Jessica was is very bad shape physically and mentally...first scans not until I think May which are always an important process to evaluate things. It is clear and was repeated yesterday that this baby is for Brian to have someone in the event Jessica's cancer returns . Some might find that a great motivation...I don't. October is not that far off !!!
 
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