Jack Monroe #22 The Condiments Thread. Jack's in a pickle over mayonnaise.

[Begborrowsteal]

Tonight I found out my partner was cheating on me. Wont be getting married next year afterall. Too many emotions going on.

 

[Miss Anne Thrope]

Yeah here to confirm the top bit is mine.

I genuinely am quite concerned to see this turn of events. I haven’t stormed off or shyed away I do promise, but I feel thoroughly uncomfortable engaging in this conversation as there’s been a few red flags (and even one before the ALM comment) from lint today so I do really worry. I’m not here to tell a Home Counties nana about herself tbh, it’s cruel and unkind.

The one final thing I will say to those who take offence to my (and I say my as amazingly only I got singled out?) alleged policing of the last thread is: you’re honestly telling me if JM said ALM then made reference to two black cats she owned you lot wouldn’t be on it like flies on fucking shit? Give over. This thread would be running at 600mph and rightly so, maybe give ur heads a wobble and ask what exactly you’re here for if it’s not to hold shitty behaviour to account - where ever it occurs.

Gathered all my courage and decided to chime in.

The 'all lives matter' is a horrible American dog-whistle comment to negate the (quite right) voice of black people protesting that their lives are treated as of no account, less than nothing, worthless to the white majority. As recently and horribly demonstrated. As heartbreakingly demonstrated over and over again. Personally, as a regular human being, I move through my life as if I am colourless, but over and over again, others forcibly remind that I am black. That is why it's important for allies to 'see colour'. My colour is frequently IMPOSED on me by others, whether I like it or not.

I felt quite uncomfortable at BL's comment but did not raise my voice. Something I am used to doing all my life as a black woman. I like Bellybuttonlint and find her witty, insightful and hilarious. I don't want her to leave - however, I have the right to say that her words made me feel a bit yucky. And others have the right to chime in with their opinions. It is how we all learn and how we all improve. We all can, Bellybuttonlint, me and everyone. Ironically, this is what #blackoutTuesday was all about. But this is a good thing; together we make progress.

Peace out and sorry for derailing. Although not really, because JM is being a bit of a prat on this issue.

xxx

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

I think the top bit is what heretoreaditall had said, and bellybutton’s comment starts at the apology bit.

I’m only just catching up so the comments are quite fresh in my mind

Yeah here to confirm the top bit is mine.

I genuinely am quite concerned to see this turn of events. I haven’t stormed off or shyed away I do promise, but I feel thoroughly uncomfortable engaging in this conversation as there’s been a few red flags (and even one before the ALM comment) from lint today so I do really worry. I’m not here to tell a Home Counties nana about herself tbh, it’s cruel and unkind.

The one final thing I will say to those who take offence to my (and I say my as amazingly only I got singled out?) alleged policing of the last thread is: you’re honestly telling me if JM said ALM then made reference to two black cats she owned you lot wouldn’t be on it like flies on fucking shit? Give over. This thread would be running at 600mph and rightly so, maybe give ur heads a wobble and ask what exactly you’re here for if it’s not to hold shitty behaviour to account - where ever it occurs.

 

[Harrybosch]

This is exactly why we should *want* to hold each other to account. No one should be beyond reproach and I agree with the commenter who said if anything these grand "I'M OFF!" posts are more akin to policing and reminiscent of JM's behaviour than a bit of healthy & balanced debate.

We're allowed to call each other out if we think something is below the belt or we as a forum/community are above it. Yes, we have forum moderations to properly do law & order on us but we are also adults capable of discussion. If you want proper moderation, there's a report button nd all. Report me, I'll serve my time happily?

I'd honestly love to know which utopias some ppl here are living in where they see that thread as "bullying" or "vile" - I've seen bigger barnies on a fucking bus? Are you writing to me from Dom Cummings' third property on his Durham estate?

The only policing that should be happening on this thread is by Lenny and me. And I'm saying, let's all stop with this ALM and 'i don't see colour' shit. If you aren't clear on why it's problematic, Google it. Or perhaps ask Jack. She'll probably make a nice video for you.

I don't give a shit if your neighbour, colleague or plumber is black. I don't care if you've shagged ethnically diverse people. I don't care if your favourite dish is jollof rice. And if someone here calls you out, with kindness and empathy, don't pretend they are a vile, disgusting troll. Because if you do, that makes you a Jack. And that's on you, babe. That's on you.

 

[BeautifulTrauma]

Hey Guys,

I’ve been following from afar these past couple of days. Sorry to bring the thread down but our beloved pet chihuahua passed away yesterday, he lived a brilliant life in a house full of love with family who worshipped him. What other dog do you know who’s favourite food is cheesy mashed potato with bacon inside?! We are all incredibly distraught. Unlike you guys, I’m not married and text an ex to talk to about him. And it was also the day I found out someone I care a lot for actually doesn’t care that much for me. So it’s been a rubbish couple of days.

To try and cheer myself up and be distracted I’ve been reading the threads and Jack’s insane ramblings about BLM. The video was disgraceful and the comparison to mayonnaise I was sat like All about her again. What has brought sadness is to see some of you lovely guys letting good debate spill over, I’m not on anyone’s side and I certainly don’t want to lose any of you hausfrau’s from the fold. So I hope we all wake up tomorrow and in a place ready for the slop shed. If anything is going to make me laugh, that will!

 

[Nottonightbabe]

I think a kind dialogue was being opened and it was important to do so. In the context of this past week particularly, and in the context of a thread where posters have shared quite a lot. Possibly, the jocular implication of alcohol misuse to open that conversation may not have been the most tender & could have caused pain or embarrassment, but reading to catch up it was - at least at first - an open and two-way conversation. I don’t agree it was anyone policing the thread. I appreciate that people did speak up, and I appreciate that bellybutton lint was receptive. I hope she feels better tomorrow and can come back to slag off jack’s poverty stews.

The issues being discussed everywhere you turn this week are painful, in many ways. As they are cultural & political they touch each and every one of us. Let’s not assume, as jack does, that we are all white and all have one perspective. I know I’m finding it difficult to unpack my personal issues on race as someone who has been spat on & insulted numerously for their brown skin, but has to tick the ‘white’ box on forms (and benefits from all kinds of white privilege) without centring myself as a bullied child in that dialogue. I don’t know if I’m ready to do the work I need to do but I couldn’t cast aspersions on what I see in the media and influencers if I wasn’t willing to at least look a little inwardly. It’s a sensitive subject and we try and we try and we try to be sensitive to each other.

I love how you've put this. I too have a lot of personal difficulties around racism and the current news and events are triggering for me in many ways. As a gypsy I have, and still do suffer from racism. But my skin is white. It's hurtful and frustrating to me when people tell me (often forcefully) that because I am white I cannot have suffered racism. It is simply not true. And it hurts that people don't acknowledge my experiences. I have suffered racial discrimination not for my skin colour, but because of the ethnic group to which I belong. Because of my features, my accent, my language, my surname - all indicate that I am a gypsy. I remember the "no gypsies" signs on doors of pubs, sports clubs, (one as recently as only a couple of years ago). Still to this very day, twice a year, people from the council come around to count us. To keep tabs on the gypsy population. They call it their bi-annual "caravan count". It's a pretty shitty feeling I can tell you. They could at the very least, send out a form of some sort, to be filled in and returned. But no, they come around with a clipboard. It's ugly.
So I struggle with conversations around race and tend, rightly or wrongly to duck out of them somewhat as there are triggering factors for me.

Sorry I'm waffling on a bit. Think I needed to get that out. As you were guys

 

[LennyBriscoe]

Can we please just establish what happened? According to my investigation, Bellybutton posted some misguided crap, was duly called out by @Veronicaaa and then @heretoreaditall2019. First got a bit defensive, but quickly apologised and deleted her tweet.
Several other people commented on why the initial post was problematic and listed resources.
Bellybutton then kept posting about how bad she felt and how she had to leave. Many people asked her to stay but stated that what she had said was not cool.
Some people tried to talk about food again. Bellybutton or possibly an impostor came back and started posting cryptic shit.
And now you are offended by @heretoreaditall2019 .
Where the fuck is @LennyBriscoe ?

Wow. Just wow. I saw some of it last night but I logged off because I felt really uncomfortable (not downplaying it at all but it felt like became at secondary school when a couple of your friends fell out with each other). I think this has been a safe space or a bit of a distraction from real life for many but in truth we only know what people tell us about each other (like me, I’m so secretive none of you know anything about me. Oh wait...) and people maybe assume they can say what they want and not get called out. I could see no wrong in what was said to BL in response but I only have to concern myself on how I deal with stuff and accept that others can’t accept guidance on how their thinking maybe ‘off’.

I’ve only got to this message so I’m not sure what else was said. But I think there were lots of attempts to take it back to food conversation and I hope a line has been drawn under it. If the Mods haven’t got involved and BL has the choice to
come back if she wants, then I hope that’s it. From a selfish point of view, this was my go to place because I’ve got enough drama in real life. This is NOT me downplaying or trying to sweep racism under the carpet, it genuinely isn’t.

PS I have been doing some low-level Detective work - I have uncovered that JM is FUMING that there are so many pages where she hasn’t been mentioned once

PPS I love courgette and aubergine

 

[Leonard]

Evening all.

Checking in on here has become a regular bit of light relief for me from all the shit that we’re having to endure at the moment. And more than that I think it’s been a genuinely supportive, kind, welcoming and open space. And it’s VERY FUNNY. As I’ve said before, I’ve cooked many of your reccs (esp from @Flumps), bought seeds, cook books, house plants, Lakeland freezer bags...

I enjoy the chat a lot, even if I don’t often contribute. More than once I’ve chuckled to myself when someone says “yes, absolutely” in real life. Likewise when my kids asked me for some tinned peaches, I had to stop myself from asking if they’d like some grated corned beef with it...

I don’t want to dismiss all that’s happened in the last couple of hours and I think it’s right to talk about the difficult subjects too. You’ve all said things much more eloquently on the subject of race and BLM than I can at this time of night, but I for one have really appreciated all the informative posts and links, which i will digest over the next few days. Thanks for taking the time to send them.

see you all tomorrow x

EDIT: you’ve all made me so bloody hungry now...!

 

[Begborrowsteal]

Thank you so much guys, you got me crying again Im going to spend time with my family, kids are a good distraction too. I feel hollow. And just so, so sad. And foolish. I am strong & resillient, but fuck it hurts.

 

[lipsticktaser]

Thought it was a cough???

 

[Nonnymouse]

I really like that sideboard.

agree with Lemon here Nonny tbh, I’d feel absolutely terrible if I dialled into her show (no idea about technology sorry!) and was a poster here, it’s up to you of course but she can choose not to read here I’d hate her to be ‘told by her lawyer friend‘ and feel that ‘trolls’ were ‘hounding her’ (I know that’s not at all what you’re doing or who we are!)

I've been invited by Hellmann's because I have an unusual ingredient - nothing to do with hounding her - I was invited before I even joined here, but appreciate what you're saying. Tattle won't be mentioned, I'm not that crass (well, I am but I wouldn't make her feel awkward on her own Live).

I also asked Hellmann's if Jack knew I had been invited and they said yes. If you read anything I've written about Jack here you'll find I've been nothing but fair - I don't believe I've name called or shamed her in anyway, just reported the facts. I'm a 47 year old professional woman and have trained others in how to handle themselves online, i'd look a bit stupid if i had a big sign behind me saying 'Tattle hates you!' lol.

I do get your point though, so please don't think i'm just brushing you off.

 

[Saint_clemmie]

I’m not quite sure what to say @Bellybutton, you did make a mistake in my opinion and @heretoreaditall2019 was very brave to kindly call you out.
I understand being told you’re doing or saying something offensive is horrible and embarrassing but don’t make it worse.
I feel you’re getting defensive when really you don’t need to be, just hold your hands up and let’s move on.

I’m sure everyone here is more than happy to forgive.

 

[Begborrowsteal]

Wtaf? Oh no. Are you OK? Stupid question I know.

Im devastated. I feel so stupid. I gave him too many chances with shitty behaviour. I didnt think he would cheat though. We were in therapy when it started ffs. A whole year behind my back. Devastated. I was due to try on wedding dresses next week.

 

[Flumps]

I rather love Alexis

No surprise that JM wants to take it to DMs though

 

[Toffee finger]

What the fuck is going on

 

[Silver Linings]

Gathered all my courage and decided to chime in.

The 'all lives matter' is a horrible American dog-whistle comment to negate the (quite right) voice of black people protesting that their lives are treated as of no account, less than nothing, worthless to the white majority. As recently and horribly demonstrated. As heartbreakingly demonstrated over and over again. Personally, as a regular human being, I move through my life as if I am colourless, but over and over again, others forcibly remind that I am black. That is why it's important for allies to 'see colour'. My colour is frequently IMPOSED on me by others, whether I like it or not.

I felt quite uncomfortable at BL's comment but did not raise my voice. Something I am used to doing all my life as a black woman. I like Bellybuttonlint and find her witty, insightful and hilarious. I don't want her to leave - however, I have the right to say that her words made me feel a bit yucky. And others have the right to chime in with their opinions. It is how we all learn and how we all improve. We all can, Bellybuttonlint, me and everyone. Ironically, this is what #blackoutTuesday was all about. But this is a good thing; together we make progress.

Peace out and sorry for derailing. Although not really, because JM is being a bit of a prat on this issue.

xxx

Not derailing at all. It made me hugely uncomfortable and i’m as white as mayo (!). Interestingly I find it odd that the assumption was that we were all white too. Excuse my inarticulate stumbling as i’ve had a glass of wine, but a forum is an interesting slice of anonymous life, and it was almost a social experiment how it was assumed we’d agree? Plus how I (a white woman) stayed quiet too but for totally different reasons to yourself, sadly. Plus poor old @heretoreaditall2019 bravely stuck her head above the parapet with a very tactful post.
I don’t know what i’m banging on about really, thank goodness i’m not famous as no doubt my tattle thread would be pulling this (pesto) word salad apart. Anyway, i hope you’re feeling better about it now.

 

[Saint_clemmie]

Come on guys, new thread, new start. Love to you all. X

 

[Saint_clemmie]

Yes Mary Anne

if you’re here Please ask why she’s still got her admin on furlough.

 

[Breakdance Badass]

Look at the guy from Hellman’s comment!!

 

[JulieScoobyDoo]

Sorry if this has been posted already, I am still catching up on 25+ pages. With regards to ALM, I saw this on Instagram this morning and it summed it up. We have to challenge the "all lives matter" commentary, so well done to those that challenged it here. (as I say, sorry if this has now been further discussed, I am waaaaaay behind)