Is anyone here an agency midwife/nurse?

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U

unidentified

I think the problem is where I live I have no choice but to go to the nationwide ones.
I’m going to email agency 2 for clarity and I’m going to chase agency 1 again for a backpay and confirming the rates going forward.
in the meantime I’m going to see what else is out there. If you can make any suggestions I would appreciate it. Obviously not asking you to disclose where you work.
 
U

unidentified

@Sprottish sorry to bother you again but they’ve said those rates are what the trust have sent but with their deductions of Agency fee and their national insurance. Is this right? The deductions work out at £10/h
 
S

Sprottish

Sorry @unidentified i thought I had replied to you! So they are taking £10 per hour off what the screenshot of the Matron sent you? So £23 an hour? Is that PAYE or LTD? (If you’re not sure you need to ask the agency - LTD includes their NI contributions)

Can I ask if you’re paid into an umbrella company? If you are it’ll likely be limited.

The £33 is the overall rate, out of which the agency will take their fee which should be about £3, not £10.
 
U

unidentified

It’s alright. Im just sorry to keep asking questions but you’re a fountain of knowledge and I wish I knew/understood more.

I’ve always been PAYE but thinking of changing to umbrella. The above rates are what the Matron said and these are what they’re saying I’ll get paid. I asked how it is £10/hr deductions and they said it’s their NI deductions and their rates. I’ve attached part of that too.
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Attachments

S

Sprottish

Ah I see. Most agency nurses work umbrella these days so this does change things slightly.

Nowadays though, it makes practically no difference if you work PAYE or LTD(umbrella). If you work Umbrella, the rate looks higher, but then you are covering the cost of the employers NI so it works out the same.

I would still say they are taking a hefty margin/fee though. If the umbrella rate is £27.50 they are making £5.50 an hour off you which is high. They make the margins up, take whatever they can.

Have agency 2 come back to you about their really high rates? Have you clarified whether they are PAYE or umbrella? I also think the midwife who was on the mega high rate may also be umbrella - that’s more the norm these days.
 
U

unidentified

She was on Umbrella, I have checked in with her which totally makes sense and they’ve now dropped her rates.

Am I right in thinking I could be part of both agencies just not work at the same trust for both? Agency 2 pays slightly more an hour (like £1.50) for where I normally go and I’m hoping the rates go back up and I’ll already be there and not go through this process again. Agency 1 pay more for another Trust where I could do odd days.

It’s so annoying they can just take whatever they want.
 
S

Sprottish

I mean, you can and should play them off against each other. If someone approached my agency saying I can get paid xyz somewhere else, we would pay them that (plus we give £150 sign up bonus!) all depends on the ethos of the agency I guess, ours is very customer service and candidate led.

You can absolutely work with two agencies at two different trusts yes. I would definitely say to agency 1 that agency 2 have offered you £1.50 more (which would make sense). They shouldn’t want to lose you (although I’m starting to wonder as they don’t seem very forthcoming in keeping you!!) but yes you can absolutely register with both.
 
U

unidentified

I was offered £50 voucher. I’ve tried pushing for the £100. I can then work between the 2 and hope rates rise again. Now to join an umbrella company
 
S

Sprottish

Umbrella companies are largely all the same, don't get bogged down trying to find differences between them - at the end of the day it just depends on your tax code, some charge more or less to process your money and that's about it really! They will probably have a list of ones you can use. I'd go for one that your agency recommends just for ease.

Hope you get it all ironed out!! If you need anything else or have any more queries please just ask me. I'm keen for you to get it all sorted!!
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And I've been cautious of saying this in case you think my intentions were just to try and get you to join the agency I work for (I'm really, really not) but if you are unhappy with the services and would like to join a new one - I'm sure I can help you - not quite sure how we'd work it out on here with privacy etc but no pressure - only if you're still fed up with them.
 
U

unidentified

Haha! I am dying to know where you work so I can have a nosey and see if there’s anything local to me but there isn’t a private option like I thought there was. Boo! I don’t think your intentions have been to poach me at all so don’t worry. I think you have been a phenominal help! Thank you so so much. I have emailed agency 2 saying I will join there but stick with agency one also for the higher rates at a Trust I can do odd shifts with. I have enquired with another today for another hospital but we’ll see. I am so ready for it all to be sorted. I feel like I am working on my days off!
 
S

Sprottish

Hello! Yes this looks pretty much the same as the previous rates you showed me. Was this directly from the Matron, or from Retinue?

Total amount per hour for you is £33 as we knew. (60p added on for Retinue who are a middle man who take a tiny fee, not relevant)

It's just basically showing you the breakdown of how the rates should work.

It does sound to me like they are paying you legitimately, now that I know you're PAYE. It seems in line with the framework rates. I would say the main thing would be the poor communication - it should have been explained and outlined to you from the get go rather than you waiting around. What's the latest comms with both agencies?
 
U

unidentified

The Matron sent me a screenshot from what she has received.

Communication is still a challenge and I am in no different position now to what I was.

I’ve spoken to Edward Thomas today about being umbrella but they’ve said they through Umbrella my take home is 60% or if I register as self employed I pay a 4% fee but then need an accountant. At this point I’m not sure what I’m doing! Who would have thought NHS was easier 😂
 
S

Sprottish

That rings alarm bells to me - under no circumstances should you be registering as self employed and I'd steer well clear of any umbrella companies that recommend you do! It's illegal now to do so when you're working both public and private sector. I've seen way too many people get stung for huge tax bills and fines years down the line so i would avoid!

Umbrella and PAYE work out about the same these days - no real benefit for going umbrella anymore. A lot choose to just because there are more options available and lots of agencies don't have the facilities for PAYE.

You probably do fall into the higher tax bracket paying 40% (just a rough estimate judging on your hourly rate) annoyingly.


It really is a lot to get your head around and to be honest, it shouldn't really be your problem - any of this. the benefit about working agency is that all of this is supposed to be taken care of for you BY your agency!
 
U

unidentified

Urgh! This is feeling like a nightmare. Thank you! I definitely don’t want to be facing that. I only work around 4-6 midwifery shifts a month so my pay averages at less than 25k for this role. I do have another job I work on top of this but that is around 12k a year.
 
S

Sprottish

Tax codes can be really complicated if you have two jobs, even if your combined income is less than the £50k threshold. It’s not my area of expertise I’m afraid, I just know having more than one job impacts how your tax is calculated.

If you ask your agency they should probably have a list of ones that they’d prefer you to use. Is this one you contacted one of them? I know we only recommend ones which have 0 chance of anything dodgy (but i dont know if they all do, as lots of nurses still want to use ones which are dodging tax.) I understand why as it looks like you simply earn more but for me personally I couldn’t take the risk.

Sorry this is still so complicated for you! This should also be the agency advising you on this, not leaving you in the dark. It’s what they are paid to do/advise.
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Tax codes can be really complicated if you have two jobs, even if your combined income is less than the £50k threshold. It’s not my area of expertise I’m afraid, I just know having more than one job impacts how your tax is calculated.

If you ask your agency they should probably have a list of ones that they’d prefer you to use. Is this one you contacted one of them? I know we only recommend ones which have 0 chance of anything dodgy (but i dont know if they all do, as lots of nurses still want to use ones which are dodging tax.) I understand why as it looks like you simply earn more but for me personally I couldn’t take the risk.

Sorry this is still so complicated for you! This should also be the agency advising you on this, not leaving you in the dark. It’s what they are paid to do/advise.
 
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