Help with teenager

[Redyellowgreen]

I have a 15 year old sister who we (my family) are honestly at our wits end with. And dont know what more to do.
We are a close family I am 28 and the youngest sister is 15. There have been no issues with any of my siblings . Except one. She constantly rebels absolutely everything. She was constantly fighting at school.( to the point she is now removed) Fighting out with school causing trouble around the down . She is extremely abusive and violent towards my parents. She trashed the house. Smashed it up. Police didnt want to help they said it was a social work issue , social work say it's a police issue . There is no support. Due to the school issues ect she has a social worker who is now being removed next month as they dont provide any support.
However when this was all going on previously the social work set rules basically says my sister can do as she wishes. She must always have her phone she can go out ect. And we werent allowed to refuse these. So there isnt exactly any way of discipline. My parents try to ground her she sneaks out the house or out windows. Before the rules tried to remove her phone she smashed a door down and said she would jump out a window .
She went to mental health services who say she doesnt have any issues that's been removed.
She hasnt had any different an upbringing than any of our siblings we have all been level yet she keeps rebeling
My mum has had countless phone calls from other people telling of what my sister is doing . We have had facebook message ect.
Tonight someone came to the door about my sister bullying her daughter for 4 years . She was told to phone the police which she would not accept. She then told my parents they were useless and no wonder my sister is the way she is . All the woman kept shouting was they need to parent.

My parents have tried everything and more and no longer know what to do how to solve it
When it was full lockdown no.1 she was like a totally different person because she waant with her friends. There was no trouble at all.
She chops and changes her friends all the time we cant keep up with who she is with.

People I have spoke with keep saying ah she will grow out of it
But I just cant stand people coming saying it's my parents fault

 

[What's your point]

God I feel for you, my son was a nightmare teenager! He did all of this and more and I thought things would never change. If it's any consolation he is so lovely now (don't get me wrong he isnt perfect and I live in constant fear that something will happen but he is like a different person to what he was 10 years ago).

The grounding and stuff wont work, you cant keep a teenager locked up and she will just rebel until you end up in a vicious circle.

Same as the smoking issue, your unlikely to stop her so why create a battle around it? Sometimes we have to let things go so it doesnt become a constant source of arguments. Just dont provide the funds for her to buy them.

Social services wise you are in limbo (we were the same) childrens dont want to know because they have limited resources and she has a family (even though there is conflict). Adults services wont help because she is too young.

Sounds to me that you have all got into a cycle of anger, frustration and negativity and I am not defending her at all but if she feels like she is the 'bad one' she will act like it.

I wish I had picked my battles more with my son as we were waaaay too hard on him. I also wish I had set more realistic boundaries rather than expecting him to be perfect and then thinking it was the end of the world everytime he skipped school or came home drunk or got caught smoking.

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

This has been going on for the past 2 years , it was really bad in 2019. Where she was beating me up beating my mum up smashed up her bed room stripped all the wallpaper off the hall way pulled doors off smashed them up.
Numerous threats of committing suicide.
Countless times of running away yet shes clever and when she knows the police are looking for her she will hide. Eventually she is found.
She went to stay with my auntie for about 2/3 months then they started to clash there was no other option other than care and she didnt want this said she would return to the family home and she would tow the line. There was a time at christmas she managed to steal £600 from my mum but nothing was done and the blame put onto my mum for leaving the money in her bag
The was still instances of her causing trouble but not at home out with , with friends.
Last year wasnt so bad when it was lockdown. She couldnt be with friends she was absolutely great actually.
But that didnt last forever
Lockdown lifted
One week the police were forever back and forward to the house because she kept fighting with people pouring juice over people egging houses.
Then lockdown again she was seeing friends and she was good again.
The occasional disagreement.
Now shes back with her friends , but her friends group is forever changing it doesnt stick the same and its hard to keep up with who she is friendly with . We ask who and where she is going but it's always just out with friends. If we ask any more she gets all defensive and agitated that we asked.

So prior to 2 years ago she was completely mild mannered?

Could she have been sexually assaulted? I know this is way out but this is one of the changes you see in kids who have been groomed / raped / sexually assaulted. I really would want to know exactly what was happening around the time she 'changed'

I intially thought un diagnosed ASD but it would be very rare to a child to get to teens and there be absolutely no sign of it prior to that.

My only other thought is addiction perhaps.

 

[Dramabyname]

In my uneducated opinion it does sound like there is a deep rooted problem. Children do not behave like this without reason (IMO)
I totally understand how you and your parents are worried/exasperated/annoyed at the situation too and external forces do not sound like they have been helpful at all.
Does she have anyone in your family she has a close bond with? Someone she can communicate with without being judged or talked down to?
I would also look for a therapist that isn’t trying to “look for a problem” but would actually help facilitate her in handling her life differently.
I’m sorry you’re going through this though, the fact you’re asking for help really shows how much you care.

 

[justheretoread99]

Thank you , one time she ran away when the police came to question her about something she ran to the cliffs and was threatening to jump so she was taken to the mental health place by the police, discharged as soon as she was there as she said she wouldnt do it and she was fine . She was referred to CAMHS and went through testing for autism ,adhd ,adha and more and they said she had none of these.
We have felt like we are just hitting our head off a brick wall.
We feel there has to be something there as this is not normal. At all
And when people experience her terrors they blame my parents.
My mum is scared to leave the house she hasnt been out since last year she wont even go to the shops as shes scared someone will approach her about my sister .

You’re right it’s definitely not normal or rational behaviour. I can’t imagine what it’s like for your mum having to deal with the comments like “it’s the upbringing/parents fault”.

I’m no expert but it does sound like there’s some behavioural or personality disorder going on.

Mental health services are so underfunded and poorly managed, especially CAMHS. I don’t know what area you’re from but in my area we have a service called IAPT (improving access to psychological therapies) which are short term intervention therapies from self referrals and clinical referrals. I’d definitely look into any similar services or the crisis team in your area.
Her age is such a funny age aswell, with the social pressures of life and all the hormones and changes a young adults body goes through.
Sending you Love

 

[Redyellowgreen]

She’s obviously had some bad experiences with the police and doesn’t trust them. (I don’t blame her after being charged with assault when she was the victim. Your poor sister) When dealing with minors and fights/assaults between minors they are more likely not to take them seriously as they would if it was an adult in their situation.

I reckon she feels more secure around adults (who don’t have an authority towards her) I.e the places she volunteers and works for. (Paper round, the market, the farm) her issue is with authority - parents, teachers, police. Issues with authority is totally normal for someone of her age, but her extreme actions & behaviour isn’t normal, and she needs professional help and support with these. I think only a professional will be able to get close to the root of the problem here and get the correct therapy.

Thank you so so much we are going to look into and suggest therapy to her. I think that probably really is the only solution.

 

[JoeBloggs]

If she’s doing do well at the farm place could she not volunteer there more? Sounds like she needs some purpose in her life.

 

[Redyellowgreen]

So prior to 2 years ago she was completely mild mannered?

Could she have been sexually assaulted? I know this is way out but this is one of the changes you see in kids who have been groomed / raped / sexually assaulted. I really would want to know exactly what was happening around the time she 'changed'

I intially thought un diagnosed ASD but it would be very rare to a child to get to teens and there be absolutely no sign of it prior to that.

My only other thought is addiction perhaps.

She was having difficulties in school , she has dyslexia and really struggles with school when she was in it. And to hide the struggles she would muck about in class becoming a easy target for the teachers to keep removing her from classes . My mum really tried to get help and there was plans put in place but she said other kids made fun of her through this. So she would lash out at them and get suspended. There was issues in the classes with teachers , then she would say one thing the teacher would say another and she wouldnt be believed and lost faith with the school .
One day she ran away from the school and got a boy to go along with her. Because no one knew where they were the police had to be called and she wasnt happy about this.

We know she smokes and now every weekend she goes out drinking we try to tell her not to . We ask where she gets the drink as we are concerned with her being underage (yes we probably have all done underage drinking) but it's just so we know it's a trustworthy source ( not that we want her doing it ) but just the thought is she gets drugged ect.
I have picked her up from her friends house once before and she was absolutely stinking of weed but when questioned about it she said it was because the girls parents smoke it.




*******I honestly cant thank everybody who has commented on this post with help and advice enough! This is the first time out with my family I have spoke about it. And I cant tell you how much of a 'relief' it is. I'm always so scared to tell anyone about the struggles we are going through with my sister.
Thank you all really.

 

[justheretoread99]

Really feel for all involved here.

It might be worth contacting CAMHS. I know you said in your previous post that mental health services said there was no issue but maybe she needs a more thorough assessment. She might be on the autism spectrum as some of the signs in young females can be: problems forming and keeping friendships, find it hard to follow instructions and rules, aggressive behaviour & school refusal. It could even be the onset of a personality disorder I.e. borderline personality disorder. These are so hard to diagnose as they are so complex.

I hope she and your parents can get the support you all need.

 

[Kim Mild]

Could she be depressed or anxious? It can often show up as anger.ř

 

[BettyCrockerr]

You have to watch what you are speaking to her about . If its something she doesnt like she will go off on one . If you speak about people she knows or knows of she will go off on one.
2 weeks ago I helped a boy ( I had no clue who he was) outside my house because his bike chain had come off and he was struggling ( I'm the sort of person who will help anyone no matter what ) she knew who the boy was and was going absolutely mental because I helped him. Like slamming doors screaming and shouting. ( this boy wasnt someone she hangs about with just someone she knows of) but this happens all the time if you mention other kids her age she seems to know everyone

Ok, but when she goes off on one as you say - what is she upset about? Can she articulate why she’s upset? To me it sounds like something has happened to her - maybe involving a group of her peers. Could she have been the victim of a sexual assault? Or been involved in a revenge porn type situation? Has she been cheated on by a boyfriend? Has she been bullied/attacked by a group of girls? Is she being harassed online?

if you are talking to her calmly, does she hold a normal conversation with you about day to day things? Is she aware how extreme her behaviour is and how it effects everyone? Is she ever remorseful after an outburst?

 

[Apple In My Pie]

I don’t have any advice only to say I have a relative who’s 17 and exactly the same, she has been diagnosed with ASD but it’s very recent. I really feel for you, it’s tough there really isn’t any help!

 

[Redyellowgreen]

Something has acted as a catalyst to cause this behaviour. Can you think back to when things started to change? There will be something that has happened to
Spark this. It may have been something that appears insignificant or it could be something more serious but deep down somewhere there is a reason for her behaviour.


Where is she getting money from to buy alcohol/smokes etc?

She has a paper round it's about 3 rounds in one so she gets about £35 a week.

When It was at its worst was when she was in school forever getting put out of classes always thinking people were speaking about her/ friends telling her things ( things that may not be true) but she would believe anything anyone told her
She is removed from school and she is banned from the area so she is no where near it.
She goes once a week for 2 hours to a place for children with issues in school she gets work but cant do it as it's not proper teaching.

 

[BettyCrockerr]

She has a paper round it's about 3 rounds in one so she gets about £35 a week.

When It was at its worst was when she was in school forever getting put out of classes always thinking people were speaking about her/ friends telling her things ( things that may not be true) but she would believe anything anyone told her
She is removed from school and she is banned from the area so she is no where near it.
She goes once a week for 2 hours to a place for children with issues in school she gets work but cant do it as it's not proper teaching.

Like I say, something has happened to cause her to start behaving like this.
What happens if you try to chat to her? Not just about her behaviour but just generally?

 

[BettyCrockerr]

I have a 15 year old sister who we (my family) are honestly at our wits end with. And dont know what more to do.
We are a close family I am 28 and the youngest sister is 15. There have been no issues with any of my siblings . Except one. She constantly rebels absolutely everything. She was constantly fighting at school.( to the point she is now removed) Fighting out with school causing trouble around the down . She is extremely abusive and violent towards my parents. She trashed the house. Smashed it up. Police didnt want to help they said it was a social work issue , social work say it's a police issue . There is no support. Due to the school issues ect she has a social worker who is now being removed next month as they dont provide any support.
However when this was all going on previously the social work set rules basically says my sister can do as she wishes. She must always have her phone she can go out ect. And we werent allowed to refuse these. So there isnt exactly any way of discipline. My parents try to ground her she sneaks out the house or out windows. Before the rules tried to remove her phone she smashed a door down and said she would jump out a window .
She went to mental health services who say she doesnt have any issues that's been removed.
She hasnt had any different an upbringing than any of our siblings we have all been level yet she keeps rebeling
My mum has had countless phone calls from other people telling of what my sister is doing . We have had facebook message ect.
Tonight someone came to the door about my sister bullying her daughter for 4 years . She was told to phone the police which she would not accept. She then told my parents they were useless and no wonder my sister is the way she is . All the woman kept shouting was they need to parent.

My parents have tried everything and more and no longer know what to do how to solve it
When it was full lockdown no.1 she was like a totally different person because she waant with her friends. There was no trouble at all.
She chops and changes her friends all the time we cant keep up with who she is with.

People I have spoke with keep saying ah she will grow out of it
But I just cant stand people coming saying it's my parents fault

Something has acted as a catalyst to cause this behaviour. Can you think back to when things started to change? There will be something that has happened to
Spark this. It may have been something that appears insignificant or it could be something more serious but deep down somewhere there is a reason for her behaviour.

She was having difficulties in school , she has dyslexia and really struggles with school when she was in it. And to hide the struggles she would muck about in class becoming a easy target for the teachers to keep removing her from classes . My mum really tried to get help and there was plans put in place but she said other kids made fun of her through this. So she would lash out at them and get suspended. There was issues in the classes with teachers , then she would say one thing the teacher would say another and she wouldnt be believed and lost faith with the school .
One day she ran away from the school and got a boy to go along with her. Because no one knew where they were the police had to be called and she wasnt happy about this.

We know she smokes and now every weekend she goes out drinking we try to tell her not to . We ask where she gets the drink as we are concerned with her being underage (yes we probably have all done underage drinking) but it's just so we know it's a trustworthy source ( not that we want her doing it ) but just the thought is she gets drugged ect.
I have picked her up from her friends house once before and she was absolutely stinking of weed but when questioned about it she said it was because the girls parents smoke it.




*******I honestly cant thank everybody who has commented on this post with help and advice enough! This is the first time out with my family I have spoke about it. And I cant tell you how much of a 'relief' it is. I'm always so scared to tell anyone about the struggles we are going through with my sister.
Thank you all really.

Where is she getting money from to buy alcohol/smokes etc?

 

[Redyellowgreen]

Really feel for all involved here.

It might be worth contacting CAMHS. I know you said in your previous post that mental health services said there was no issue but maybe she needs a more thorough assessment. She might be on the autism spectrum as some of the signs in young females can be: problems forming and keeping friendships, find it hard to follow instructions and rules, aggressive behaviour & school refusal. It could even be the onset of a personality disorder I.e. borderline personality disorder. These are so hard to diagnose as they are so complex.

I hope she and your parents can get the support you all need.

Thank you , one time she ran away when the police came to question her about something she ran to the cliffs and was threatening to jump so she was taken to the mental health place by the police, discharged as soon as she was there as she said she wouldnt do it and she was fine . She was referred to CAMHS and went through testing for autism ,adhd ,adha and more and they said she had none of these.
We have felt like we are just hitting our head off a brick wall.
We feel there has to be something there as this is not normal. At all
And when people experience her terrors they blame my parents.
My mum is scared to leave the house she hasnt been out since last year she wont even go to the shops as shes scared someone will approach her about my sister .

 

[justheretoread99]

She always finds something she is not happy about in conversations , starts screaming and shouting.
Because she is forever fighting with other people girls/boys it doesnt matter if she doesnt like something they say she will instantly get in a fight with them or her favourite pouring juice over them .
There was one day last August she got jumped while walking through a park by a boy . She came home she was scratched bruise had her head hit off the floor. And the boy tried to pull her top off her . We reported this to the police. as soon as she got home. A few days later the police came and we thought it was about what happened but no it was to charge her with assault. They didnt want to listen to her story nothing. She has recording of the fight/getting jumped but the police didnt care.
There has been a few times because of this parents have messaged her . And a few weeks ago due to things going on a parent went to where she gets her papers from and started arguing with her about things .
She came home was asked about why this happened . And all she kept screaming was nothing it wasnt her fault.
The police were involved in this and turns out she was just part of the group who were causing trouble in the town and someone else in the group she was with was fighting with the boy who's mum cornered her.

She can have a calm conversation, like today she is away volunteering at a town market she helps with putting up stalls ect she will come home speak about it no problem but when I dropped her off this morning she was in a absolutely foul mood. However helping at the market she will be fine.

My mum has tried speaking to her about her behaviour so many times and how this cant keep going on but all my sister says is she doesnt care. We tried saying if she carries on this way she will end up in jail but she just doesnt care.

She’s obviously had some bad experiences with the police and doesn’t trust them. (I don’t blame her after being charged with assault when she was the victim. Your poor sister) When dealing with minors and fights/assaults between minors they are more likely not to take them seriously as they would if it was an adult in their situation.

I reckon she feels more secure around adults (who don’t have an authority towards her) I.e the places she volunteers and works for. (Paper round, the market, the farm) her issue is with authority - parents, teachers, police. Issues with authority is totally normal for someone of her age, but her extreme actions & behaviour isn’t normal, and she needs professional help and support with these. I think only a professional will be able to get close to the root of the problem here and get the correct therapy.

 

[Redyellowgreen]

Ok, but when she goes off on one as you say - what is she upset about? Can she articulate why she’s upset? To me it sounds like something has happened to her - maybe involving a group of her peers. Could she have been the victim of a sexual assault? Or been involved in a revenge porn type situation? Has she been cheated on by a boyfriend? Has she been bullied/attacked by a group of girls? Is she being harassed online?

if you are talking to her calmly, does she hold a normal conversation with you about day to day things? Is she aware how extreme her behaviour is and how it effects everyone? Is she ever remorseful after an outburst?

She always finds something she is not happy about in conversations , starts screaming and shouting.
Because she is forever fighting with other people girls/boys it doesnt matter if she doesnt like something they say she will instantly get in a fight with them or her favourite pouring juice over them .
There was one day last August she got jumped while walking through a park by a boy . She came home she was scratched bruise had her head hit off the floor. And the boy tried to pull her top off her . We reported this to the police. as soon as she got home. A few days later the police came and we thought it was about what happened but no it was to charge her with assault. They didnt want to listen to her story nothing. She has recording of the fight/getting jumped but the police didnt care.
There has been a few times because of this parents have messaged her . And a few weeks ago due to things going on a parent went to where she gets her papers from and started arguing with her about things .
She came home was asked about why this happened . And all she kept screaming was nothing it wasnt her fault.
The police were involved in this and turns out she was just part of the group who were causing trouble in the town and someone else in the group she was with was fighting with the boy who's mum cornered her.

She can have a calm conversation, like today she is away volunteering at a town market she helps with putting up stalls ect she will come home speak about it no problem but when I dropped her off this morning she was in a absolutely foul mood. However helping at the market she will be fine.

My mum has tried speaking to her about her behaviour so many times and how this cant keep going on but all my sister says is she doesnt care. We tried saying if she carries on this way she will end up in jail but she just doesnt care.

 

[Redyellowgreen]

Is there anyway you can try and support her taking her under your wing meeting with your friends and boyfriend if you have one.Being a good role model to her plus it might get her away from the random rough friends she currently with.Any chance of her getting more time at the zoo/farm as she’s doing well at.Perhaps a apprenticeship at a local vets if she likes working with animals.

I've tried so much with her.i dont want to give up . Last weekend I was out for a walk . She was with a group of friends smoking and drink and causing trouble. I knew if I went to my mum about this she would say she wasnt doing it. So i video her doing this. She thought I was just taking photos said she was just sat doing nothing that I was lying until I said well actually I recorded her. She called me a pedalo and said she was reporting me to the police and social work

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

Has she always been like this? In some way or another? Or is this relatively new behaviour / out of the blue?