Gender Discussion #85

[nothanksbabes]

I’m absolutely fucking raging and it gets worse as time goes on and the TRA tantrums increase.

Going back a few years, I was really pretty supportive to trans people. I didn’t think TW were women of course, but I did feel for people who felt gender distress.

But, the point came, when nothing I ever did was good enough.

I was happy enough to tolerate them in loos. But then that wasn’t good enough. I had to be happy with them in hospital wards, gym changing rooms, and I was transphobic if I objected .

If I called them “transwomen” that was wrong. If I used the term “preferred pronouns” that was wrong. If I objected to being called “cis” that was transphobic. If I referred to gender dysphoria that was wrong as it implied they were ill.

This has been coming from other women by the way, who have “trans kids” and their “allies”.

All the while they were stealing our spaces and calling us names if we objected to them asserting rights they never had. That was “hateful” as well as “transphobic”.

And now they have the gall, the sheer fucking brass neck and audacity, to STILL make themselves out to be the victims, to make out WE are still transphobic, and that WE have now created a problem for them that we are expected to solve.

No. Just fuck off.

As I've mentioned before I've spent many a night in clubs with, and shared many a toilet with, all sorts of fellas in frocks, contrary to the TRAs who think none of us have ever interacted with a trans person. I was doing drugs in loos with trannies and drag queens before half these cryarsing malingerers were a twinkle in their dad's left bollock, five minutes after the AIDS criris was a very recent memory and when being gay was still cause for a horrendously homophobic headline and involuntary outing by the Sun. Back when the pervy cross dressing straight men with their long-suffering, downtrodden wives were treated with the suspicion they deserve by gay and straight people alike. Now these AGP creeps are the mouthpiece of whatever's left of the LGBT movement (not that they've ever given a fuck about the L) to everyone's detriment.

They have absolutely fucked themselves over and anyone who has ever been in an abusive relationship will have recognised their tactics long ago.

The constantly shifting goalposts, the crybullying, the threats, the manipulation, the endless demands, where no matter how much you give there's always just one more thing, the DARVO whenever they engage in a particularly egregious behaviour, the denial of evidence that's literally right in front of your face, the constant self-victimisation by people who are the architects of their own misery.

They can absolutely get fucked. That Western men have positioned themselves as the most vulnerable of women and other women buy into demonstrates exactly what a dick pandering misogynist shithole patriarchy we inhabit.

That these intellectual midgets will malign the likes of J K Rowling but sit idly by while Jonathan Willoughby and his mentally ill, narcissistic dribble makes fools of them all and while the terminally online trans community gleefully discuss how their entire identities are constructed around their porn-addled misogynist idea of women as sexually submissive bimbos tells you everything you need to know about the lack of integrity of everyone involved.

I truly don't give a fuck anymore. At this point I'll have Terf tattooed on my fucking forehead so it's known when everyone backtracks and pretends they knew all long what a woman is that I wasn't a coward.

Whew. That was an unexpected rant.

 

[chizontiz]

First time poster, trying my best to be brave and stunning! Sorry this will be very waffly.

Both my partner and I were struggling to fall asleep last night and so I asked her if she wanted to listen to a Harry Potter audiobook. She said something along the lines of “no, JK Rowling has really pissed me off this week, fuck her and fuck Harry Potter.”

I’m not on any social media so didn’t know specifically what she was referring to, but could guess it would be about the Supreme Court ruling. We have discussed trans rights before, and I have been able to assert my position that women’s rights are fundamental and need to exist separate to the protected rights of any other marginalised group.

I’ve made it clear that “trans women are women” is reactionary puff that harms the trans community as they lose their protected rights as trans. If we apply the opposite, that “trans men are men” then those who fall under that category are doubly impacted as they lose their protected rights as trans, and also their protected rights as biological women (so access to single sex spaces, maternity leave, pregnancy care etc).

My partner is more sympathetic to the TRA movement, and I think would naturally align herself with it because she feels it’s right/virtuous, and genuinely believes she will be inflicting harm on a vulnerable group if she doesn’t show herself to be an ally. I think this is true of all our friends.

We’re all in are early-mid thirties, university educated, a mix of creative and more corporate industries (or no industry at all). They’re all kind, compassionate and intelligent, my partner especially so. I find it deeply frustrating, and sad tbh, that to them those virtues mean they have to endorse the TRA stance without question, and that my questions make me unkind and cruel.

The only time my friends and I have come close to arguing on the issue was a few years ago, when JK shared on Twitter her experience of domestic violence and how that has influenced her position on women’s protected rights. Admittedly, I wasn’t very well back then (was admitted to a ED clinic not too long after, things were not good and it must have been a scary and frustrating time for my friends). We were in the pub and JK’s statement came up and I remember being genuinely surprised at how… angry?? My friends were about it.

Around this time I was also doing a lot of campaigning about increasing funding for rape crisis centres because, at that time, you couldn’t even get onto a waiting list in London. My friends knew about and supported this work, and knew my personal reasons for doing it, so to hear them get so angry with JK for sharing her own experiences did feel really personal and alienating. There was just zero compassion, from women who I know are kind and caring in every other area of their lives! Unfortunately we’d all been drinking, and I struggle to articulate myself at the best of times so it was hardly a productive discussion. I just couldn’t get my head around why they didn’t understand why women only spaces was so important to me, and clearly a lot of other women. Like you’ll sympathise with my rape when it suits you? When it fits your narrative?

I just feel sad and deflated that, despite this court ruling, I have to hide these parts of myself in my closest relationships. That if I make a statement that can be interpreted as even a little bit terf-y, then that’s me being contrary or combative, but those who are also supposed to love, care for and see me can say what they want. And I understand that hiding in plain sight is exactly how trans people feel, I’m not trying to argue my plight is bigger or that they hold some responsibility for helping me feel comfortable in the world. I think we’re all harmed by the unthinking reactionaries.

Here’s hoping that the SC decision will help more women who have been feeling uneasy over the last few years feel somewhat protected when they speak out. I used to be obsessed with David Tennant but he has properly given me the ick now. I think it’s admirable that he so clearly wants to protect and advocate for his child, but it’s hard to ignore the really greasy-egoism and misogyny that runs through everything he says on the issue. I hope that people will be able to see the blatant misogyny of TRAs for what it is now. I’ve never wished harm or death to a trans person - that is genuinely repugnant to me and I would argue against anybody who did. So again, the pissing and the death threat signs are just impossible to square away with a peaceful protest movement simply trying to co-exist. They don’t want to co-exist with anybody. That’s the problem.

 

[jolly_parsley]

Thisssss!!!

 

[Miggsy]

I’m absolutely fucking raging and it gets worse as time goes on and the TRA tantrums increase.

Going back a few years, I was really pretty supportive to trans people. I didn’t think TW were women of course, but I did feel for people who felt gender distress.

But, the point came, when nothing I ever did was good enough.

I was happy enough to tolerate them in loos. But then that wasn’t good enough. I had to be happy with them in hospital wards, gym changing rooms, and I was transphobic if I objected .

If I called them “transwomen” that was wrong. If I used the term “preferred pronouns” that was wrong. If I objected to being called “cis” that was transphobic. If I referred to gender dysphoria that was wrong as it implied they were ill.

This has been coming from other women by the way, who have “trans kids” and their “allies”.

All the while they were stealing our spaces and calling us names if we objected to them asserting rights they never had. That was “hateful” as well as “transphobic”.

And now they have the gall, the sheer fucking brass neck and audacity, to STILL make themselves out to be the victims, to make out WE are still transphobic, and that WE have now created a problem for them that we are expected to solve.

No. Just fuck off.

 

[jolly_parsley]

This list of demands is something else! No wonder trans people feel like victims if trans groups are telling them that this is how it should be!

Right lets do our own for women.

1 Misogyny to be made a hate crime
2 Men to have a curfew. Home by 6pm in the summer, 3pm in the winter.
3 No men (adult human males, people assigned male at birth, penis owners, prostate havers) in our single-sex spaces
4 A discount on chocolate, painkillers and wine (both containing alcohol and 0% stuff) when the week before and week of our periods
5 Bikinis and matching bra/pants set to only have ONE price for both instead of having to pay separately for the top and bottoms.
6 Mini Eggs to be available all year round but only for women. I miss them.
7 The right to tell the troons to fuck off and call them out for their misogyny without being called a fascist Nazi who wants to commit a trans genocide.
8 Workplaces should offer hot water bottles, beanbags, and cosy blankets for comfort during our times of the month when we’re in pain and want to punch everyone.

Anything else?

 

[Tofino]

This has been a long time coming

 

[WeTalkAboutBruno]

I'm usually a silent lurker to this thread, but I had to share this piece of shit of a business (sorry if this was shared on the previous thread). I like their stuff and I've bought items from them, but fuck them now. Shared this ill informed nonsense, turned off the comments that were overwhelmingly critical, and when people went onto another post to share their thoughts the replies were deleted. So instead of apologising, backing off and acknowledging they made an error of judgement, they've doubled down and silenced dissenting voices. Can you imagine if this was the other way round?? Fuck businesses like this, the double standards are infuriating.

 

[MaineCoonMama]

There’s this person on TikTok that keeps coming up on my FYP who is… I don’t know if trans or what but he said he’s got his first “gender affirming” appointment, mind you this is a biological man who has a beard.

Anyway someone asked him what a gender affirming appointment was and he described as basically being any kind of medical intervention that involves anything related to sex and gender. So a boob job in his opinion is gender affirming medical care.

Ok, I didn’t necessarily agree but at that point I’m at least following what he’s talking about.

Then he gives another example: Gender affirming treatment would be a woman who has to have their uterus removed due to cancer.

I commented something a long the lines of that being the opposite of gender affirming for a woman and that it’s actually fucking offensive to even call a life-saving operation gEnDeR aFfIRmINg. Obviously got called transphobic and was told they’d call it what they want thanks very much.

Why do these men hate women so much?

There’s my rant for today - thanks for reading.

I wish I'd seen this, I'd tell them all to get fucked. I've mentioned before I've had my uterus removed due to stage 4 endo. I had a 10 cm cyst that has caused ongoing damage and pain, I cried every day for nearly two weeks after the op because it hurt so much and I was scared that I had cancer. (I came back clear)
I'm awake now at 3 am with burning, stinging pain where my ovarian cyst used to be, the only affirmation I've got from this at that if my concerns and complaints about pain had been taken seriously endometriosis wouldn't have taken my health and my capacity to work and have a decent life.
I'm not looking for sympathy, I just wish people would get their heads out of their arses long enough to realise that women get fucking shafted every day in almost every aspect of our lives and I'm fed up to the back teeth with hearing men bawling and trivialising the female pain experience. Hope that cunt chokes on a dick,

 

[Rayne]

Got removed from a women’s Facebook group today because I angry faced a post by a t r a n n y who posted about what they’re wearing to a protest march because common sense finally prevailed and they’re not classed as a woman anymore

The irony that I’m a woman getting removed from a group in case it hurts a man’s fragile little ego. Women pandering to men AGAIN

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

Oi, Irish lot - please stay. I can't speak for everyone but I think you should discuss what's going on over there as there's bound to be links to what's happening here. If we're not interested we can just scroll.

 

[Em_gardener]

My belief is that society is changing and that is ok things don’t stay the same forever and there is room for biological women and trans women there is no need to be joined at the hip and facilities should be available so that everyone feels comfortable especially in Europe and America we have the funds available but companies don’t want to invest.

But trans women have made it really clear that they don't want their own toilet. They want to be in the women's.

 

[Tofino]

Interim update from the EHRC published today.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com...ctical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment


This is beautiful

 

[nothanksbabes]

Not strictly Gender thread related, but God help us!

Jesus fucking Christ. If you work 40 hours, commute two hours a day and sleep eight hours a night, you are still left with 58 hours a week in which to shower.

You don't have to burn yourself out for a corporate nonsense job. Plenty of us turn up, do what we're paid for then go home and forget about it (and shower). It's not my dream life, which is to live in a cottage by the sea with 10 cats and some goats and hens, tending to my wildflower garden, but such is life eh. I have a career and a salary and I'm not working myself into an early grave, scraping hand to mouth to feed a family like the women who went before me.

My ancestors (and hers, I'm sure) couldn't have dreamt of only working 40 hours, for 5 days of the week, let alone having a shower and hot running water in their homes.

We are the most privileged generation of human beings to ever have lived. At this point I think we deserve the apocalypse.

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

Actually the idea of someone being transphobic is an interesting one!
I appreciate it would be illegal to name call, or treat someone differently just because they are trans, but where does this leave feelings?

Are you legally allowed to dislike someone just because they are trans? Especially if they behave or still believe that this gives them the same rights as biological women?

Also Surely if it is illegal to name call or treat someone differently because they are transgender, then this also applies to everyone who is a biological woman, so the people on these demonstrations being rude about women, should be prosecuted?

Misogyny is not seen as a hate crime. Transphobia is. Nuff said.

 

[ScottishMammy92]

Thanks so much for the advice it's really helpful. It just feels so unfair because she was so excited to have found great hours and a position she really enjoyed.

After a long chat tonight I've told her to hand in her resignation. I'm going to cover her rent for the summer and I'm confident she will find something else. We've gone through her CV together and changed it up a bit and this week she's just going to stay here and we will apply for everything suitable.

It just seems so unfair that she's being pushed out. But I've sat with it and I just cannot risk her safety. This is a person who is being allowed to bully and harass a woman. Using gender to assert himself in her personal spaces. Using his position to bully her. He is already being incredibly inappropriate verbally and is now being invasive in a space she should feel safe in.

What happens if he feels emboldened and decides to go further than verbal harassment? It's not something I can risk for her. She's a really good kid and it just really highlighted to me the difficulty her generation face. She is so worried she'll be labelled as transphobic or be accused of committing a hate crime against him that she is too scared to speak up when he is blatantly harassing her. What world do we live in.

I'm sick of hearing that the supreme court decision doesn't change things. Yes men will still abuse women. They don't need a disguise. We know this. But women need safe spaces. They need places exclusive to them. And we should not be accepting that someone can invade them because they put a dress on and decided they were female.

I have contacted the agencies recommended on this thread and I still intend to make a complaint. Because as a mum now I'm worried sick about the next woman exposed to him. Men like that don't change they just get worse and I couldn't live with knowing someone else's child suffered this.

Thanks for all the advice and just for listening really. It's so hard to talk about without being labelled as a maniac or anti female isn't it

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

A hairdresser from my town is very upset at how the day went . No idea what "hand the woman a new one " means for asking a reasonable question.

“I for one am a trans woman that everyone looks up to”

Is that because you’re 6’ 5”?

 

[Moon Face]

Isn't it ironic that after all the accusations that TERFs were funded by the US dollar, it was actually the TRAs who were.

 

[Nelly's mum]

It is noticeable that whole subject around women's sex based rights is always reduced to toilets - it seem a TIMs whole focus is getting into the most private, vulnerable public space that a woman can be.
Interesting, now why exactly would that be?

I might use a public toilet 3-4 times a year - I appreciate some women need to use public toilets much more often, and obviously they should be solely for women - but this constant circling back to the toilet debate reduces and ridicules the issues and makes women's right to safe spaces appear so trivial - they just wanna pee, all these poor vulnerable men 🥱 - but what about the bigger picture?
Apart from Emily Bridges manfully whinging on, I haven't heard much discussion about how the SC ruling is a positive for women in sport, or that the ruling promotes the safety and dignity of women and girls in women's public facilities including schools, hospitals and changing rooms.

The SC ruling is constantly framed as something negative that has been done to men, and not that it has simply clarified existing legislation that is in place to protect women's sex based rights.

 

[Lalla]

My employers haven't made any announcements following the Supreme Court ruling, other than to say that their thoughts are with anyone affected or something along those lines. Plus quite a few men saying how their TiM/TiF relatives are upset and scared. Completely ignoring of course how women have been upset and scared for the last 10+ years...

The TiM in our office, who is very quiet, keeps himself to himself and doesn't fit the typical mould (not even any crazily dyed hair) is nonetheless still using the ladies loos.

And tbh this really annoys me. There are other loos he could use (there's a disabled loo on our floor, although really he shouldn't use that either, or there's a unisex single loo on another floor). So either he has been told by someone in our workplace to keep using the ladies OR he's just ignoring the SC ruling.

Its not all about the loos, of course but this feels a bit like him sticking 2 fingers up to the ruling, and to every woman in our workplace.

 

[Scotch Mist]

I'm already getting tired of the nonsense about transmen and butch lesbians. We can tell they're women and couldn't care less if they're dressed in masculine clothes