Gender Discussion #76

[moldwarp]

But there already has been an enquiry. And the Conservative government ignored all of the recommendations.

There's been such a huge attempt by woke progressives to downplay the severity of the mass gang rapes, because they don't like the politics of the messenger, Elon Musk. Whilst I understand this, I think it's morally hollow (not calling YOU morally hollow @Miss Begotten I always love your posts, talking about other commentators on X and MN mainly) because:

1. The mass gang rapes began in the early 1990s and are still going on today, we know for sure it happened on a large scale in Rotherham, Rochford, Telford, Newcastle, Oldham and survivors and campaigners say it's happening in other places. I know it was happening in South Wales because one of my daughter's schoolfriends, a very vulnerable child, was a victim and tried to get my daughter involved (she didn't, as a CSA and SA survivor myself I taught her well about how predators operate).
2. It was happening mainly in socio-economically deprived areas and the cover-up was deliberate and involved multiple services including Police and SS.
3. The victims were double victims, first of misogyny and secondly of rampant classism: because of their deprived background, many in SS and Police regarded them as 'dysfunctional' and 'consenting' - it was working class hatred.
4. We haven't had a proper national conversation about this - I have honestly seen more media, think pieces and social media posts about Gisele Pelicot, Sarah Everard, Savile, Windrush than I ever did about the mass gang rapes, which is easily the biggest failure of the British State of its own citizens since, I'm gonna say, 1916 (Battle of the Somme which was known to be unwinnable but thousands sent to die anyway), but people don't seem comfortable talking about this, and I think it's because of classism - these girls were deprived and dysfunctional so, on some level not seen as worth helping.
5. Survivors are calling for each affected council to do their own independent review and then work together to draw out parallels in behaviours of the perps - I agree with this.

I know it's off topic, but I feel strongly about this because I WAS one of those working class, dysfunctional, addicted teens and I KNOW how this type of victim is highly vulnerable and also difficult to help because we don't necessarily always come off as perfect victims. the 2022 inquiry isn't enough, women need to be having more of a national conversation with each other about this because it's so huge. Too huge to leave to men like Musk. Jess Philips an avowed feminist has said far more about Gisele Pelicot than she's ever said about this and I think it's morally bankrupt of her. I honestly, honestly do.

Sorry that was off topic but, yeah, strong feelings. Working class deprived girls are really not taken seriously enough as victims and it has to change.

It is actually also relevant to this thread because it's socio economically deprived women who are most vulnerable to harm from the trans madness - in prisons, shelters, refuges etc.

And also, mass gang rapes and trans madness rely on the same misogynistic outlook - that women aren't autonomous beings, they're passive receptacles, merely 'holes to fuck' (as transwoman Andrea Long Chu defined women). Same continuum of misogyny as led Oldham police to say the victims were 'promiscuous' and therefore 'conseting' to be raped.

So, yeah. It sucks.

 

[Dinate]

Sandie Peggie, the nurse who is suing her NHS Trust and a trans woman doctor for harassment after being suspended for objecting to sharing a changing room with said trans doctor is asking the tribunal hearing her case not to refer to the doctor using she/her pronouns. Her excellent argument is that if the tribunal refers to the doctor using she/her pronouns 'as a courtesy', this leads to the presumption that Sandie Peggie is being discourteous by not using those pronouns. And more importantly, the essence of her case is that the doctor is not a she/her but is in fact a man. Specifically she says that:

“It is impossible to put that case clearly and forcefully while referring to the man in question as ‘she’ and paying lip-service to the fiction that he is a kind of woman. The whole point is that he is a man.”

I actually want to stand up and applaud this woman. I used to use preferred pronouns on this thread when I first started posting here, but I realised that you then find yourself saying nonsensical things like, as a made-up example:

'Lia Thomas should not be competing with biological women because she has an unfair advantage as she has gone through male puberty. And she shouldn't use the female changing rooms because she......' etc.

It's the same effect as using female pronouns in court for male rapists, which leads to the abomination of 'her penis' and the like.

Sandie Peggie has asked that the tribunal refer to the doctor without using pronouns. I expect she will lose that battle because the judge has already referred to the non-binding Equal Treatment Bench's guidance which says that LBGT should be addressed how they wish to be addressed. Nonetheless, I'm glad that she's raised the point.

 

[IngressUK]

One good thing has occurred from Trump becoming President once again.

The end to woke madness, and multiple genders being recognised by Government.

With any luck, this will filter through here.

You can identify as whatever you want, I really don't care. I just don't want to feel the long arm of the law for innocently getting your batshit gender pronoun wrong, or lazily (and wrongly) being labeled a 'bigot' for doing so.

Hopefully, we will start to see Women's spaces becoming women only once again, and the end to Trans males competing in women's sports.

As a gay male, I've never agreed with any of this crap. So please don't think that all gay/lesbian people are pro this utterly batshit gender nonsense. I strongly agree that women are entitled to their rights as much as anyone else.

 

[louloubops]

Hi everyone
I’ve been looking for you all for some time,
I’ve been on tattle for ages but only came across these threads through the Jk Rowling ones before Xmas, I’ve read and read the last few weeks and I finally feel I have found MY safe space with people who feel the same as me
I was always a big LGBT supporter in my younger years but the last couple of years this ideology has deeply unsettled me, something has gone very wrong with all of this and women and children are indeed in danger
I will finish by saying I am not a fucking TERF, I am a WOMAN and I REFUSE to be labelled, I thought we had moved on from labelling people, the world is going backwards and only some of us can see it.
Thanks to you all I feel the freedom to speak my mind here

 

[Em_gardener]

Looks like we're back here

I'm so confused. Tattle has transitioned and detransitioned again in under 12 hours.

 

[Scotch Mist]

I find it amazing that with male violence, society's default is to parrot 'not all men' and the same with this grooming scandal - it is overwhelmingly men of Pakistani upbringing and, if you see something going on around you, you are more likely to take part.

I saw a documentary by Trevor Phillips (who I'm actually no fan of tbh) where he said the reluctance to talk about facts about race actually harms everyone. For example, alcohol-fuelled violence is largely perpetrated by white men and it's not racist to say that, that's what the statistics show.

The fact that people are more concerned over cries of racism and politics, rather than the women affected says it all

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

People like Bella Mackie who believe some kids are born in the wrong body should be made to visit children's hospital wards and explain to sick kids and their parents that unfortunately, they were just born in the wrong body. Funny how being born in the wrong body is never used when referring to kids who are born with life limiting conditions or disabilities isn't it?

 

[VeniVidiVicki]

Dull women’s club …

so many stupid women under this post telling him his great he looks. Why the fuck do they do it?

 

[moldwarp]

I think this is worse than apartheid. Apartheid was an abomination true, but at least the black women there weren't treated like sub-humans and had access to jobs education and healthcare and were free to come and go as they pleased. Afghan women don't have one single solitary basic human right.

It does really fucking wind me up that the bien pensant in this country seem to spend more time arguing over whether we should boycott Israel for defending it’s citizens whilst utterly ignoring the fact that Afghan women are now at such a depth of oppression that they’re not even allowed to LOOK OUT OF A FUCKING WINDOW.

 

[DoraMaar]

 

[HockyRorror]

Sorry if previously posted, I have just come across this and found it a funny case of FAFO.

I’ll post images for those that can’t watch the video but he’s like Dylan Mulvaney on crack mixed with meth (for the first few seconds I actually thought it was Dylan)

The final two paragraphs are just remarkable. The kind of polite letters I would thoroughly enjoy writing as a job to people

 

[carriebooboo]

I'm baffled by the gender fluid thing too and can only conclude that it's attention seeking behaviour. I don't spend a single second of my day pondering if I feel girly or not, I get up and just go about my business.
People who are so self obssessed must have little going on in their lives.

A woman in my industry hired a photographer to document her 'coming out' as non-binary. I shit you not. She plastered it all over her socials like she was announcing some big career achievement, then sat back and waited for the fawning comments. The only change I've noticed is that she wears trousers more often. That's it. Same hair, name, everything.

How much of a narc do you have to be to think that anyone would give a fuck?

 

[Kittypops]

Just been in my Big Tescos and there was a "pup slave" in full dog mask and costume, along with his "owner"

When did this all become ok?

 

[DoraMaar]

The beginning of the end - this order will be signed after Trump's inauguration later today

 

[SunsetBeach]

We are in the midst of the most concerted attack on women’s right since women won the vote, it’s shocking and so disturbing. I’m shocked so many women don’t seem to care.

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

On the subject of awareness days - we had our end of year ED & I group meeting last week. It was essentially to decide what we're going to concentrate on in the coming 12 months. Someone - who has up till now had very little input into the group - has suggested we do something around non-binary awareness (urgh). I was talking to my boss the next day and said in no uncertain terms that I would absolutely not be getting involved in that. She is lovely and comes across as being very much a #bekind person (not in a shut-up-mean-women-and-let-the-men-trample-all-over-you way), she's just a nice person. She totally surprised me by saying "no, I kept quiet in the meeting but I won't be getting involved either, she can deal with that. You're either male or female and that's all that matters"
Welcome to the dark side boss lady. I suspect there'll be some interesting conversations in our office in the coming months. I've always let it be known that I don't have time for gender stuff but I've always been quite careful in how I express it and not just gone full on "this is bollocks". Not anymore <<does cartwheels>> She's about to take over the firm too

 

[moldwarp]

The extent to which some women don’t want to hear about it really shocks me.

I think women do notice and care but there is a lack of grassroots feminist organisations by which women can come together, have their consciousness raised and organise.

There used to be loads in the 1970s but they got subsumed by woke bro socialist groups who pretended to care about feminism but didn’t really. Andrea Dworkin wrote very well about this. The political lesbian groups got subsumed into generic LGB and then LGBTQ groups, firstly because of the AIDS crisis and then more generally because gay men see themselves as more important than lesbians, and indeed gay men are treated with far more respect and deference than lesbians in public life and by politicians. Well, they are men first and foremost. (There’s a lot I could say here about gay white male privilege, and their power in the arts media and fashion and the denigration of lesbian visibility but that’s for another time).

The last feeble attempt at female organisation was the pink hat pussy march. Remember that? The organisers were traduced for being transphobic (because NOT ALL WOMENZ HAVE VAGINAS YOU BIGOT!!!) and it was never held again.

However there are spots of resistance. When I decided to divest from non blood related men, and become a political lesbian, I started to meet other like minded women. I would also say that threads like THIS ONE and also the sex & gender threads on Mumsnet, are vital sites of resistance. Because we share information and experiences, and that’s the first step in raising consciousness, just like the feminist consciousness raising circles of the 1970s.

 

[klarakluckbag]

Dull women’s club …
View attachment 3339533
so many stupid women under this post telling him his great he looks. Why the fuck do they do it?

Ffs..."heavily invested into fashion" .
He looks like Peter Kay wearing a dress from a 1980's market stall!
He doesn't give a shit about fashion, he's like the rest of them, he just want to flash his (male) genitals in women's toilets and changing rooms. I swear, the handmaidens are so stupid that if he wrote a Facebook post actually telling them that he has an unbearable urge to wave his knackers about in front of unsuspecting women, they'd probably volunteer to go and watch him being "his true self".

 

[klarakluckbag]

Hands up...who picked out the AGP at first glance?

What TIM's don't realise is, that just because we don't point and laugh at them in the street, doesn't mean that they "pass". We're conditioned to be polite, to not stare, to indulge men in their odd fantasies. Plus, we know that upsetting a man carries a real risk of physical harm. Which is precisely why we don't want them in our spaces.

 

[VeniVidiVicki]

This is the doctor in the NHS Fife employment tribunal that the judge said passes