Gender Discussion #105

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Jenni Murray has died :(

She was an absolute icon. I will never forgive Woman’s Hour for phasing her out for gently supposing that men can’t actually be women. She was so sensible, so reasonable, so balanced (and so RIGHT). They really don’t make them like that any more.

This quote from Tim Davie has infuriated me:
“Throughout her three groundbreaking decades on Woman’s Hour, Jenni created a safe space for her audience thanks to her warmth, intelligence and courage. We shall all miss her terribly. Her legacy endures in the countless conversations she started, the many issues she championed and the lives she touched.”

Safe space? SAFE SPACE? That wasn’t what she was about. She was a brilliant interviewer and created a space where her audience made their voices heard.

That is entirely bleeping deliberate IMO. I could not despise the man more. Every day I’m glad I’m not giving that toxic institution my money.
 
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I'm sure TRAs will claim that if men take cross sex hormones they are that sex and therefore this applies to them too. I always think about the ads on tv in the US for PREP, they feature transwomen and then in their list of who this is not suitable for make it clear that it hasn't been tested on actual women so its not safe for them

Oh they do, they do! :rolleyes:

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Hmm...cells are replaced you say? We'll go back to this in a minute.

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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Chromosomes are redundant? :unsure: But what about that important cell division?

This science article begs to differ.

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Also...

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But I'm sure that men taking oestrogen can replicate this perfectly! 🤭
 
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Not clicking on anything posted by Himdia himself, so here is Dr Dame Katy Denise’s comment.
Is this Himdia actually saying someone might lie about being trans for their own advantage? I thought this was another one of these things that according to TRA absolutely never happens?
 
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Oh do duck off , India. Vile man. He needs to get some fresh air in his Fiat 500.

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Oh do duck off , India. Vile man. He needs to get some fresh air in his Fiat 500.

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Why didn’t Johnny boy face his internalised homophobia and accept himself as a gay man? He clearly seems to hate women. He’s gone to such extremes yet no one thinks he’s a woman and men aren’t interested in shagging him. What’s sad sack of tit.
 
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Original is in Portuguese, which I translated with Google. Although there are articles in British newspapers, this one included a direct quote from World Boxing.

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I'm assuming the last sentence should read "above-average MALE hormone production."

I would love to know more about the process involved in this decision. My understanding is that the presence of a Y chromosome always means a person is male, and will have much higher testosterone levels than a female, even in cases of DSD.

The one exception is Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, where the person's body doesn't respond to androgens. I believe that someone with this condition wouldn't have any advantage over female athletes.

But if Lin Yu-Ting has higher than normal MALE hormones, that would rule out CAIS.

From the information given, it looks as if a male with a DSD is going to be allowed to compete against women.
 
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Of course no one can tell 🙄🙄🙄
Do you know what? It's ok to support your kids in their endeavours. But it's not fair to them to lie to them in such an obvious way. Telling the world that no one can tell which one of her kids is an weird, toad like, strapping bloke and which one is a beautiful woman isn't fair to either of them. They both know she's lying.
And it wouldn't matter if the daughter was an weird toad like strapping gal, we'd still know which one was the fake.
I wonder if we'd have ended up in this tit if there'd been a bit more honesty rather than everyone falling over themselves to pretend that we don't actually think big Dave isn't really a stunning beauty and looks bleeping ridiculous in his ra-ra skirt. The whole #bekind tit is anything but kind. At some point everyone comes up against reality.
 
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Oh do duck off , India. Vile man. He needs to get some fresh air in his Fiat 500.

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That’s his reponse to news of her death? What a petty, solipsistic mean spirited tit he is. He could have said “our differences are a matter of record, and we did not see eye to eye at all, nonetheless, I’m sorry for her family’s loss”. Being so publicly eaten alive by spite and jealousy is no way to live, son.
 
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Sorry to clodhopper in and change the subject, I just posted on a thread about The Walsh Sisters TV show, based on Marian Keyes books, and it reminded me of, '"This Charming Man".
There's a really weird trans sub plot in it, which in hindsight makes me think they were AGPs.
Has anyone else read it?
<clodhops out>
 
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This is the Tribunal Tweets thread on Faye Russell-Caldicott's employment tribunal against NHS England. It was a short tribunal - finished yesterday. I would recommend reading it all if you can - especially the two NHS witnesses (start from Tues afternoon). I was going to say that the evidence from the NHS is unbelievable but then I remembered that we have seen all sorts of madness from employers now.

Faye is anonymous so I found some of her evidence confusing in trying to establish her role and from that her work patterns, but that's not that important. The issue is that the NHS office in Leeds started to allow a TIM to use the female facilities in the office. Faye complained to no avail. In the end, she resorted to using the gender-neutral toilet which may be the disabled toilet as well - again I'm not entirely sure. There was a lot of confusion about the floorplans - NHSE initially provided the wrong one. Faye also liked to use the gym facilities which I think were in a next door building but were wholly managed by the NHS. The women's shower room has a communal shower with no separate individual cubicles - not even curtains.

The NHS barrister was the same one who represented Darlington NHS. I thought he was more aggressive with Faye than I remembered him being in the Darlington case but I may be misremembering. And also, he had even less to work with than he did in the Darlington case. For example, NHSE still hasn't changed it's policy as they 'are waiting for the guidance' and 'it's complex'.

A few days before the Tribunal started, NHSE conceded that their actions constituted a disadvantage to women, Muslim women and also the disability claim (Faye has PTSD). So the remaining issues were essentially that they didn't agree that Faye was disadvantaged or that their actions were proportionate to achieve a legitimate aim and also the two harassment claims.

The NHSE's evidence was infuriating. There was no impact assessment prior to introducing the policy to allow men to use female facilities; they didn't think to consult with any of the female staff; they followed Stonewall's advice as well as another organisation called GIRES (Gender Identity Research and Education Society'; they haven't changed their policy after the SC ruling because 'they've been busy' and 'it's complex'.

They think that the SC ruling causes confusion regarding the interpretation of the EA regarding trans rights. They are concerned that they might be sued by a TIM if they follow the SC ruling - which is nonsense. They clearly don't understand that the SC ruling was 100% relating to the EA and in any event the provision of facilities in workplaces is governed by the Workplace Regs.

Their continuing lack of regard for women's rights is breath-taking. The idea that women should expect to share a communal shower with a biological man didn't even give them pause for thought. Their submissions in the end amounted to 'everyone else has the same policy'; 'it wasn't/isn't our fault - Stonewall told us what to do'; and the risible 'no-one should be punished because we were all wrong'. Naomi's submissions were great - it's easy when the law and common sense are on your side.

I found the whole tribunal depressing because it just emphasises how big a battle we still have to fight the Unions, the whole public sector and much of the private sector. And I honestly don't have the words to describe my anger and contempt for Bridget Philipson and the rest of this Labour government. What the hell is Philipson waiting for now? These cases shouldn't, and wouldn't be happening if the Guidance was published and all government ministers told their departments to follow the law.

Sorry for the essay - I hadn't meant for this to be so long!

ETA: Faye is still short of her target - it would be great if people could donate a little if you can. Just google her name for the crowd funder.
 
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