Florence Given

stopthescams said:

Interesting! From loudbossygross insta.

Click to expand...

Sounds to me like there is lots of dirt on Chidera but Diving Bell and it’s other influencers don’t want to say for fear of being labelled as racist or being accused of gaslighting. Despite Chidera’s stupid comments on twitter I’m sure there are plenty of Black women who would still speak up for her if she was giving the full story and the fact that they aren’t is very fishy.

I've been loosely keeping up with the issues between Chidera and Florence, and I think all of it is quite messy and there's a lot that isn't being shown. Firstly, if Chidera was planning to endorse the book originally, surely she would have seen it and therefore could have brought up how similar they look? Secondly, I own both books and yes there are similarities, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that Florence copied Chidera. This whole 'self-help', feminist driven artsy culture is very popular at the moment, and neither of the books are complete originals, and I think that Florence, despite her misgivings, has been fairly open in saying how she has been influenced by other women and isn't claiming that her book is the blueprint. I don't want this to come across as an attack on either women because I think they're both great in their own right (of course both have their flaws, but don't we all), but it does seem that Chidera is upset about being dropped by Diving Bell for whatever reason and it using it as a chance to say that a white woman got more attention than her. Please do not think this is me downplaying the racial aspects of this issue because I think that it does have a part to play (Florence is more palatable as a thin, white, pretty woman) but I think Chidera is going on a witchhunt over something that isn't entirely Florence's fault

lushstudent said:

it does seem that Chidera is upset about being dropped by Diving Bell for whatever reason and it using it as a chance to say that a white woman got more attention than her. Please do not think this is me downplaying the racial aspects of this issue because I think that it does have a part to play (Florence is more palatable as a thin, white, pretty woman) but I think Chidera is going on a witchhunt over something that isn't entirely Florence's fault

Click to expand...

I can’t stand Florence but the more that comes out the more I think this. There’s obviously more to this than is being let on about specifics.

stopthescams said:

I can’t stand Florence but the more that comes out the more I think this. There’s obviously more to this than is being let on about specifics.

Click to expand...

Exactly this. I wouldn't be shocked if it's a tactic to drive up sales of both books considering more people are buying now to see if it's copies

I’m a bit concerned all this public piling on could result in something terrible it wouldn’t shock me. You can call out peoples toxic behaviour without having your fans pile on someone for days until it potentially becomes too overwhelming. It’s becoming clear that this is something that should have been handled offline. Now that’s not to defend florence and im not her fan at all but I just think piling on people publicly has no effect. Chidera,at the same time, has every right to speak her truth and I don’t want to stop her from that. Conflicting thoughts.

Has anyone noticed how everyone involved in this scandal is making an absolute killing? Loud Bossy Gross requested people "pay" her for the "labour" of screenshotting the insta messages that other people are sending her, and doing a couple IG lives. She's made 3 grand in a week. Same with Chidera, her book sales must be through the roof right now with so many people picking up a copy having only heard of her through the drama. And I'm sure Florence's sales are just fine as always lmao.

What always gets me is that the loudest voices on social media tend not to be the voices in the greatest need of financial reparations. Chidera sold 50,000 books, she is a middle class British young woman, and yet people are swarming to send her money. It's just such a shame when there are literally black families in this country who are relying on food banks, charities, and support from their church or friends as a result of intergenerational deprivation and racist policies like the hostile environment preventing them from earning a living or claiming benefits.

All these white do-gooders would be doing a lot more good by donating to a charity that either directly supports working-class black people and those without an immigration status, or one that does policy and advocacy work to try and remove these racist policies. A middle class woman earning £3k in a week from reposting messages and doing a couple of unscripted videos, and all the white activists patting themselves on the back for their performative activism, absolved of their white guilt for having ever liked Florence - well, to me it's a disgusting example of profiteering.

Sure, pay black people for their labour, emotional or otherwise - but there is no way you can convince me that £3,000 in a week is the value of LBG's "labour" it's so ironic that she's literally profiting off of re-sharing other people's words - just like Florence and Chidera did!!! I really hope she will donate the majority of it but somehow doubt it.

I donated to LBG and I don't regret it. She's spent days reading all these messages from people, some of which are going to be emotionally taxing because people on the internet are very quick to share their trauma. She also very likely has FG fangirls in her DMs constantly.

It's not about one or the other, I also donate to charities as well, but I don't think there's anything wrong with paying someone for the work they've done. LBG has spent most of her week doing this and I'm happy that she's being paid for it.

I don't know enough about CE to make any bold statements about how I feel about her, but I will say I don't think this was financially driven at all. I think this was very real frustration, that, warranted or not, she needed to express. I can understand how difficult this must have been to need to do so without being the angry black woman.

I am concerned for both CE and FG because being involved in social media backlash is really emotionally taxing. I would bet that FG would take peace over some extra book sales rn. I had a friend be 'cancelled' over a tweet a year or so ago and she literally has PTSD from the experience because of how awful people can be on the internet.

I donated to LBG and I don't regret it. She's spent days reading all these messages from people, some of which are going to be emotionally taxing because people on the internet are very quick to share their trauma. She also very likely has FG fangirls in her DMs constantly.

It's not about one or the other, I also donate to charities as well, but I don't think there's anything wrong with paying someone for the work they've done. LBG has spent most of her week doing this and I'm happy that she's being paid for it.

I don't know enough about CE to make any bold statements about how I feel about her, but I will say I don't think this was financially driven at all. I think this was very real frustration, that, warranted or not, she needed to express. I can understand how difficult this must have been to need to do so without being the angry black woman.

I am concerned for both CE and FG because being involved in social media backlash is really emotionally taxing. I would bet that FG would take peace over some extra book sales rn. I had a friend be 'cancelled' over a tweet a year or so ago and she literally has PTSD from the experience because of how awful people can be on the internet.

So Diving Bell released a statement and it seems that they have receipts that Chidera was supported and her concerns where listened to. They also have receipts that she ended the contract on a positive note.

This isn’t a team Florence/Team Chidera thing for me - it’s just seems like facts are coming to light that prove that nothing was “copied” from her even if she does feel that way. It seems they were both in publication at the same time.

urghmummybloggers said:

So Diving Bell released a statement and it seems that they have receipts that Chidera was supported and her concerns where listened to. They also have receipts that she ended the contract on a positive note.

This isn’t a team Florence/Team Chidera thing for me - it’s just seems like facts are coming to light that prove that nothing was “copied” from her even if she does feel that way. It seems they were both in publication at the same time.

Click to expand...

They also confirmed that they have nothing to do with the promotion or marketing of the books - so if someone has been trying to manipulate the SEO so that WDOYP shows up in Chidera's Google results, it wasn't Diving Bell. Maybe it's because Chidera's name is literally on the front cover of WDOYP lmao.

The problem with that Diving Bell statement, and which makes it a bit iffy to me, is that it only refers to Chidera’s latest book and doesn’t mention how similar WDOYP is to Chideras first book released in 2018. This is more than just a battle of books IMO. They seem to want to protect Florence over someone standing up for herself. Munroe Bergdorf saying Chidera is hiding half the facts, then why isn’t anyone coming forward with these so called real facts?

I bought Chideras book in 2018 (I liked it but didn’t do much for me tbh) and when Florences book came out I did remark the similarities.

korma said:

They also confirmed that they have nothing to do with the promotion or marketing of the books - so if someone has been trying to manipulate the SEO so that WDOYP shows up in Chidera's Google results, it wasn't Diving Bell. Maybe it's because Chidera's name is literally on the front cover of WDOYP lmao.

Click to expand...

Exactly this - it could also be Amazon paying for key prioritisation on any google ads as a result combined with Chidera’s name featuring in the forward.

I’m really starting to believe that this is a marketing campaign on Chidera’s behalf hence her push to have other influencers involved, let’s face it, both their books are going to have gone up in the last few weeks.

I’m interested to see her response on the statement though

Chidera's first few stories about everything seemed quite informative and to the point, but now she's just going after everyone who dares object against her. Florence hasn't been on Instagram in days, Diving Bell was quiet until their statement release, Gina Martin was bullied off and now Munroe Bergdorf. It's mental to me that Chidera thinks this is really going to solve the problem. I'm not advocating for either side in this equation, but surely she recognises that this is an issue that should be dealt with offline, either with management or lawyers, not your Instagram audience? If she wants to make them aware of any racial inequalities (which probably do play a part, let's be honest) then she can do so without dragging everyone through the mud

lushstudent said:

Chidera's first few stories about everything seemed quite informative and to the point, but now she's just going after everyone who dares object against her. Florence hasn't been on Instagram in days, Diving Bell was quiet until their statement release, Gina Martin was bullied off and now Munroe Bergdorf. It's mental to me that Chidera thinks this is really going to solve the problem. I'm not advocating for either side in this equation, but surely she recognises that this is an issue that should be dealt with offline, either with management or lawyers, not your Instagram audience? If she wants to make them aware of any racial inequalities (which probably do play a part, let's be honest) then she can do so without dragging everyone through the mud

Click to expand...

Im confused at why she’s going so hard at munroe bergdorf?
That’s someone who publically shamed one of the biggest cosmetic companies in the world even losing a contract with them about white supremacy.

I think whoever Chidera’s mate who she reposted isn’t quite right saying that Munro’s is waiting for permission for white people to speak, she seems to have no issue speaking up on the truth. there is very clearly Chidera’s side, Florences Side and the truth which is a mix of both I presume.

korma said:

Has anyone noticed how everyone involved in this scandal is making an absolute killing? Loud Bossy Gross requested people "pay" her for the "labour" of screenshotting the insta messages that other people are sending her, and doing a couple IG lives. She's made 3 grand in a week. Same with Chidera, her book sales must be through the roof right now with so many people picking up a copy having only heard of her through the drama. And I'm sure Florence's sales are just fine as always lmao.

What always gets me is that the loudest voices on social media tend not to be the voices in the greatest need of financial reparations. Chidera sold 50,000 books, she is a middle class British young woman, and yet people are swarming to send her money. It's just such a shame when there are literally black families in this country who are relying on food banks, charities, and support from their church or friends as a result of intergenerational deprivation and racist policies like the hostile environment preventing them from earning a living or claiming benefits.

All these white do-gooders would be doing a lot more good by donating to a charity that either directly supports working-class black people and those without an immigration status, or one that does policy and advocacy work to try and remove these racist policies. A middle class woman earning £3k in a week from reposting messages and doing a couple of unscripted videos, and all the white activists patting themselves on the back for their performative activism, absolved of their white guilt for having ever liked Florence - well, to me it's a disgusting example of profiteering.

Sure, pay black people for their labour, emotional or otherwise - but there is no way you can convince me that £3,000 in a week is the value of LBG's "labour" it's so ironic that she's literally profiting off of re-sharing other people's words - just like Florence and Chidera did!!! I really hope she will donate the majority of it but somehow doubt it.

Click to expand...

LMAO just noticed that since this post, LBG has taken her gofundme off her profile and moved to PayPal instead so the total donations is hidden. People must have cottoned on to how much she's exploiting this situation for personal financial gain people are also now calling her out for resharing hateful/ gossipy messages so she's taken some down. This whole thing is messy!!

korma said:

LMAO just noticed that since this post, LBG has taken her gofundme off her profile and moved to PayPal instead so the total donations is hidden. People must have cottoned on to how much she's exploiting this situation for personal financial gain people are also now calling her out for resharing hateful/ gossipy messages so she's taken some down. This whole thing is messy!!

Click to expand...

I really don’t understand why she’s making so much money off of reposting messages. See I get paying black women for their Labour, but this situation has nothing to do with her on surface level and it’s starting to look like a quick way to make herself money? It’s a bit strange. Especially changing the link to PayPal. Just seeing how easy it is to get money from white people with good intentions I guess

stopthescams said:

I really don’t understand why she’s making so much money off of reposting messages. See I get paying black women for their Labour, but this situation has nothing to do with her on surface level and it’s starting to look like a quick way to make herself money? It’s a bit strange. Especially changing the link to PayPal. Just seeing how easy it is to get money from white people with good intentions I guess

Click to expand...

Exactly. It's pretty gross.

I don't even like Florence, I thought her book was way overhyped and I'm annoyed at myself for spending money on it. Should have known not to bother reading a book from someone like Florence who clearly lacks experience but I wanted to see what the fuss was all about. Definitely better suited for young teenagers.

That said, the whole Chidera situation feels a bit weird. I haven't bought her book but it does look like the same kind of crap with cliche quotes that we've all heard before. Another self help book from a young person who has taken heavy inspiration from others and has used graphics to make it more accessible and fill in the gaps because they haven't got anything unique to add. Rubbed me up the wrong way reading Chidera's message to Florence that said her first book was the 'first hardback non-fiction book to be full of original illustrations by the author, coloured pages, mini essays, typefaces'. Don't know what planet she's on if she thinks her book is anything special. Really reaching.
Seems like they both took inspiration from other books and Chidera's annoyed Florence had the same idea but performed better.

I do agree with the whole pass the mic thing and that Florence shouldn't have even bothered writing a book when she is using other people's ideas. But I also don't blame her and I think it has performed the job she wanted and become something accessible for younger people (although again it's not the first). I can definitely understand Chidera's frustrations but I don't think her work is unique enough really. It's kind of like if Florence got annoyed at the next person who released a colourful book on feminism.

I think LBG has annoyed me the most in this situation though. At the start I appreciated her efforts and I think it's good for people to speak up. But to expect people to donate to her for her time and efforts of reading and reposting their dms? That's a normal day for influencers. She's the one who decided to get involved and play that role. She isn't even adding anything now, she's just screenshotting messages. I'm sure it came from a genuine place at the start but now she's just using it as an opportunity to make money. And no one can argue with her because she's a black woman getting paid and essentially it's what Chidera wants as well. No longer feels like LBG is doing this just to speak out and support Chidera, she's just doing it to stay relevant, grow her platform and her bank balance. At least donate a portion to charity or something?

TBH, I find Florence really annoying, preachy and attention seeking

I’ve gotten to the point now after reading loads of ig posts for both camps where I just feel so bloody confused- it’s a bit of a shambles. IG could be such a positive gateway for female voices and to get people engaged and Informed with feminist content. But at the moment I’m caught up in things like the right/ wrongness of who I listen to- does listening to rhetoric from white women make you a bad feminist?
It feels like this situation as a whole is just getting to a point where it’s damaging to a community of women who are getting started on a journey of opening their eyes to the world around them. Diving bell seem to have just made a cash grab for these outspoken ig women and let them make books on content they aren’t necessarily experienced enough in then let them fight it out when the content is really similar.

I think the overall take away from this debacle is "don't hate the players, hate the game".

(Both are annoying AF though)