Euthanasia

[BettyCrockerr]

Euthanasia should be provided for those who want it. I’m currently caring for my mum at home and on an end of life pathway. She has widespread cancer including her bones and it’s honestly so cruel to let someone die in this way. She’s like a skeleton, in constant pain and is vomiting faecal matter because of a bowel obstruction. You wouldn’t leave an animal like that. It’s horrific.

So sorry for what you & your mum are going through, sending love & strength

 

[LittleMy]

I’ve worked in care of the elderly for over a decade, and I’ve given palliative care to countless people in that time. Some passed quickly and peacefully, unfortunately many don’t. I’ve also had to watch some of my own family members pass away slowly and painfully due to illness that was never going to get better. From my experiences both professionally and personally, I’d agree with a law for Euthanasia to be made legal. Obviously it goes without saying that it would have to carefully planned and implemented, and with very special consideration. It’s a delicate subject but I am for it. If I was suffering and was not about to get any better, I’d hope to be able to pass with dignity and be able to decide when to end my pain.

 

[Kmacg]

Pro-euthanasia here too.

I had cancer at 23, with 2 young children, which i luckily caught in time and beat but during the months of treatment, the thought crossed my mind that if I got too poorly to enjoy my last months with my family, I would rather end it myself than put anyone through watching me die. I wouldnt want my babies last memories of me being in a hospital, too tired to speak, wasting away. I know most people would cherish every moment they could but I couldnt do that.

We treat animals with more dignity in death than we do fellow humans. Something has to change.

 

[BettyCrockerr]

Anyone remember the “Liverpool Pathway”? Up until 2014, NHS Trusts were starving the elderly to death without pain relief and sometimes without the families’ knowledge.

I love the theory of euthanasia - everyone should be able to have control over their death in the same ways as they have rights to life.

However the shades of grey settled in after watching my dad go into hospital with a broken foot and be kept there following weeks of exceptional incompetence and nursing mismanagement and come out half his weight, bed sore ridden and ill. I wouldn’t trust any of those night hags masquerading as nurses or their doctor / consultant lemures to have any input over any practice of euthanasia. Pretty sure the last thing the staff on that particular orthopaedic ward needed was the power to put down patients they have taken against or consider a waste of resources.

You also have to keep in mind that the old fashioned approach of death by morphine ended properly with Harold Shipman and it will not be coming back. It’s also a terrible burden to stick on others to kill you, even for those NHS “Angel” types and the idea of the kind of person who’d be skipping between euthanising patients lives leaves me cold.

Perhaps artificial intelligence is the answer?

So sorry to hear about your experiences with your Dad, that’s absolutely horrendous and goes without saying is completely unacceptable


I don’t think it could be something that would happen on a daily basis on a regular ward in reg hospitals and i don’t think it would be right for staff to be working as you say to save lives one minute and help end them the next. That just wouldn’t work. It would have to be purpose built wards/facilities with trained staff in the field of assisted dying with a robust team of trained social workers etc and it would all have to be signed off etc so there was no room for any abuse of the system etc

 

[hydeist]

Yeah thats what I mean when I say a whole ethical can of worms. Its a topic that needs so much research, care and thought before its ever discussed in Government though.

There at least needs to be a start - research and studies into this will get a lot more traction and funding if the government would at least start to entertain it as something that people might want.

I don't worry too much about the idea of people "feeling like a burden" and choosing to go before their time - in a world where we could choose medically assisted death there would be a lot of psychological and medical safeguards and processes to go through, not just a case where Granny feels guilty and can just wander down the pharmacy and get her Euthanasia Pills.

I also think that idea takes away a lot from the older generation and those who are terminally or long term ill, that we'd worry they're too weak to make their own decisions over life. If someone terminally ill or elderly DOES feel like a burden and like this isn't the way they wish to live the short rest of their life, feeling guilty and miserable, who are we to say that they don't get to make that decision?

For me it would be more of a concern that unscrupulous people could take advantage of vulnerable people, or that vulnerable or mentally ill people could make decisions that they wouldn't normally. But again, I'd expect there to be very serious and robust systems in place to ensure that anyone was acting of their own free will and wishes.

 

[Merpedy]

I don't see many negatives to euthanasia tbh

I think there would be very very few people who would want to do it for unreasonable reasons, or would feel 'forced' into it. I also believe that this would be picked up by whatever evaluations you need to go through

Mental health is an interesting situation, but I think it could be a possibility if you've tried all the treatments accessible to you and they just haven't worked. Again, I feel like this would apply to very few people

Honestly, I think if your quality of life is just so bad due to your medical condition you should have the choice to pass away on your own terms

 

[Danni_louu]

I watched my grandad die of cancer. I remember him being in that much pain I was begging the nurses to give him that bit more medicine to overdose him.
I agree with it. Obviously not for little things

 

[LittleMy]

Anyone remember the “Liverpool Pathway”? Up until 2014, NHS Trusts were starving the elderly to death without pain relief and sometimes without the families’ knowledge.

I love the theory of euthanasia - everyone should be able to have control over their death in the same ways as they have rights to life.

However the shades of grey settled in after watching my dad go into hospital with a broken foot and be kept there following weeks of exceptional incompetence and nursing mismanagement and come out half his weight, bed sore ridden and ill. I wouldn’t trust any of those night hags masquerading as nurses or their doctor / consultant lemures to have any input over any practice of euthanasia. Pretty sure the last thing the staff on that particular orthopaedic ward needed was the power to put down patients they have taken against or consider a waste of resources.

You also have to keep in mind that the old fashioned approach of death by morphine ended properly with Harold Shipman and it will not be coming back. It’s also a terrible burden to stick on others to kill you, even for those NHS “Angel” types and the idea of the kind of person who’d be skipping between euthanising patients lives leaves me cold.

Perhaps artificial intelligence is the answer?

I remember the Liverpool Care Pathway. It was horrific.

 

[AllSeeingEye123]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...end-life-calling-end-assisting-dying-law.html

Three years on from making the thread and I think we are getting closer to it. Starmer is mentioning a vote if he gets in to power and I believe the nation would vote in favour of letting people die on their own terms when they feel a burden and that they lack dignity and are in constant pain.

 

[Speckledpebble]

So sorry for what you & your mum are going through, sending love & strength

Thank you It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do.

 

[hydeist]

Assisted dying is like termination of pregnancy. If you don't agree with it, don't have it, but don't force your views on others. No one should be forced to remain alive against their will.

This feels like a very perfect way to sum it up. Thanks

I think it is also a fair-ish comparison to make that some people who are against abortion also say things like, what if people take advantage, what if they make it legal to abort full term babies, what if this leads to LITERAL CHILD MURDERING and none of that has happened. We can't scare ourselves out of things that improve lives or reduce suffering because we are afraid of an imagined bogeyman who is going to come destroy it.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

I fully believe in euthanasia in principle, but sadly I don't trust those people who run health services or governments to not use it for purposes other then what is right for the people.

I myself have my own plan of action to take if I was diagnosed with something that I would not want to live with. Sadly like many you have to do it sooner rather than later in case you become incapable

 

[Lizzie Mintdrop]

It's a disgrace that it ever went through the courts. How is it in the public interest to put him on trial? He was never going to kill or attempt to kill anyone else

 

[SarahM1986]

I volunteer for Age UK and I visit an elderly lady weekly. She has every single health problem going bless her and has chronic arthritis. I am sure given half the chance, she would jump at the option (as upsetting as it would be for everyone around her)

 

[thatstupidcat]

Anyone remember the “Liverpool Pathway”? Up until 2014, NHS Trusts were starving the elderly to death without pain relief and sometimes without the families’ knowledge.

I love the theory of euthanasia - everyone should be able to have control over their death in the same ways as they have rights to life.

However the shades of grey settled in after watching my dad go into hospital with a broken foot and be kept there following weeks of exceptional incompetence and nursing mismanagement and come out half his weight, bed sore ridden and ill. I wouldn’t trust any of those night hags masquerading as nurses or their doctor / consultant lemures to have any input over any practice of euthanasia. Pretty sure the last thing the staff on that particular orthopaedic ward needed was the power to put down patients they have taken against or consider a waste of resources.

You also have to keep in mind that the old fashioned approach of death by morphine ended properly with Harold Shipman and it will not be coming back. It’s also a terrible burden to stick on others to kill you, even for those NHS “Angel” types and the idea of the kind of person who’d be skipping between euthanising patients lives leaves me cold.

Perhaps artificial intelligence is the answer?

 

[kev1974]

It's a disgrace that it ever went through the courts. How is it in the public interest to put him on trial? He was never going to kill or attempt to kill anyone else

No but until there is a proper process for euthanasia, there still needs to be a robust trial process to stop any old husband offing their wife and claiming she asked him to do it.

 

[LennyBriscoe]

I am quite frightened of dying, and I’m not really sure why. If I was in the situation where I was terminally ill and nothing else could be done, I would like to be able to choose the time to go in the place I would like to take my last breath - it doesn’t sound like a lot to ask to me.

I understand this would be a complex, tricky law to introduce but it doesn’t sit well with me that it’s an outright “no!” without any debates (or at least that’s how it looks to me).

My mum was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer in the September and she died in the May. She was in a lot of worsening pain throughout that time and I just know she would have wanted to go sooner because it was unbearable - and a lot of people have a lot lengthier battles with cancer. There’s nothing worse than seeing a loved one waste away in front of your eyes when you know what the outcome will be anyway.

We obviously have to be extremely careful to protect vulnerable people. But at the moment, the only people who have that last act of control are those who have the time and money to go to Switzerland.

 

[JOHN1967]

I fully believe in euthanasia in principle, but sadly I don't trust those people who run health services or governments to not use it for purposes other then what is right for the people.

I myself have my own plan of action to take if I was diagnosed with something that I would not want to live with. Sadly like many you have to do it sooner rather than later in case you become incapable

I was in the barber's shop a few years ago, and in the chair next to me was a solicitor, he was telling us all, how he carried a vial of poison around his neck, and he showed us a small gold talisman, in which he hid his vial.

As someone who is always thinking about becoming incapable, this idea had crossed my mind.

Anyhow I asked him what he would do if he had a stroke and he didn't have the dexterity to open it.

He said, he hadn't thought of that possibility.

The thing is, we don't want to do something and end up even worse off.

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

Out of curiosity, what do people think about cases where the person isn't suffering from a terminal illness but from a psychiatric illness or personality disorder? It seems like doctors in the Netherlands can't agree

Aurelia Brouwers argued she was competent to make the decision. But could a death wish have been a symptom of her psychiatric illness?
"I think you never can be 100% sure of that," says Kit Vanmechelen. "But you must have done everything to help them diminish the symptoms of their pathology. In personality disorders a death wish isn't uncommon. If that is consistent, and they've had their personality disorder treatments, it's a death wish the same as in a cancer patient who says, 'I don't want to go on to the end.'"

This view is not universally held by psychiatrists in the Netherlands.
"How could I know - how could anybody know - that her death wish was not a sign of her psychiatric disease? The fact that one can rationalise about it, does not mean it's not a sign of the disease," says psychiatrist Dr Frank Koerselman, one of the Netherlands' most outspoken critics of euthanasia in cases of mental illness.

He argues psychiatrists should never collude with clients who claim they want to die.
"It is possible not to be contaminated by their lack of hope. These patients lost hope, but you can stay beside them and give them hope. And you can let them know that you will never give up on them," he says.

Obviously put a big trigger warning for reading this article

The troubled 29-year-old helped to die by Dutch doctors

In January Aurelia Brouwers drank poison supplied by a doctor and lay down to die. She was 29.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[emm]

No but until there is a proper process for euthanasia, there still needs to be a robust trial process to stop any old husband offing their wife and claiming she asked him to do it.

But that's why it should be legalised and done by professionals, not random people in their homes
Everyone I've met who is a doctor supports assisted dying as they're aware how bad things can get towards the end, imagine spending your last months (or worse) in agony with no chance of recovery? It's crazy that we treat our pets with more mercy than our friends and relatives