Constance Marten and Mark Gordon #9

[Bleekemolen]

So I got there at 9 this morning and was first in line to get in when the courts open at 10.

They let friends and family in first (no checks or any sort of proof needed) but I was first in line for court 5. No friends or family of CM or MG lining up.

I waited until lunchtime with no explanation as to why I was not allowed in. Whilst I was lining up outside a group of about 10 women were outside the court with banners and signs with “justice for CM” etc on them. They kept shouting “We support CM. Babies need their Mums”. A couple of the women from this group tried to line up to gain access, but Security moved them on.

Told court would not be sitting before lunch and so went to Tattle for lunch. After lunch I saw the back of CM’s mother, her brother and someone that I recognised from the Vogue wedding shoot. They have that “quiet luxury” look about them - you know when you just know when someone has money!!!

Came back and went to watch a conspiracy to murder case but the security guard said he would find me if court 5 opened to the public.

It did! I was allowed in but I can’t report on what was discussed (without the jury). If it ever does get reported, I will give my take on things but I don’t want to cause any sort of trouble. MG was there but CM was unwell and not in court. I think/hope it’s ok to say that??

There were a couple of people that I got chatting to (one ex police) who had been attending throughout the trial who mentioned a few things. Now I have no idea if these are true or not and so please don’t take these as “truth”:

He is in Belmarsh prison and not having an easy time
She is in Bronzefield and apparently segregated
The protest today was organised by Ian Joseph who was mentioned yesterday
The state of the nappy she was found in was horrific - as if Victoria had been wearing it for a long, long time
They both mentioned that CM comes across as really intelligent (I did not get that impression from the day I saw her get cross examined)
Apparently MG has looked absolutely furious when she has perhaps said too much (again, I did not see this when I saw her give evidence and he was there)
His sister has been in court to support him (I’ve not seen this reported anywhere) and his Mother is too ill to attend

I can say that the jury is down to 11. 5 women and 6 men. The court has a week and off and will be back on the 25 and 26 March and there is someone coming to give expert evidence on her behalf. I am sure that I heard that there will then be a break and court will return on the 8 April.

Planning to go back on the 25 March and so will report back then.

Have a fab weekend everyone

 

[Bleekemolen]

Sorry if this is long! If anyone has any questions or anything is not clear, I am happy to answer!

Was there early again and the protestors supporting CM were outside court again, but not as many as the other week. There were no friends or family for either of them in the public gallery and I did not see any of her family in the building today.

So, CM was late this morning because the van taking her from Bronzefield to the Old Bailey broke down!

When Court 5 finally opened it was lunch time. CM was there in black trousers, cream shirt, claw clip and black scrunchie! MG was there in a suit and tie and is completely focused on CM when she is giving evidence. The first thing CM did was to say that she thought that she would get some lunch before she had to be questioned! The judge was kind, but firm and told her that there would be a lunch break in 15 minutes or so! I just want to say that Judge Lucraft is absolutely brilliant in the way he handles her and also the way he speaks to the jury and barristers is so good. I think his summing up and sentencing remarks (if it comes to that) will be really interesting and worth attending.

A lot of discussion about the state of the tent and the suitability of the tent and as to why/when they moved to the shed. One thing she did say which did not really get picked up on was she said that they bought replacement items for the tent when things got ruined. I have not seen any reports of them buying anything other than the stuff that they got in Argos?? I cannot tell you how she does not answer questions and they have to be repeated again and again to her – she just goes off talking about other things e.g. how lots of people live in tents all over the world, etc… It is really frustrating, and you can see the prosecuting barrister getting more and more irritated with her! At one point she told him off for speaking to her in what she claimed was “a patronising tone”

Discussion around them planning to lie about what to say to police when they were arrested. She said that MG wanted to protect her because if she told them she had been holding Victoria then she would be blamed for her death. She said she wanted an autopsy done to find out if there was another reason why Victoria died. She said she told the truth to the police. The barrister then challenged her why she lied to the police about her name when she was arrested and also lied in not saying where the body was when arrested. She was also challenged about how if she really wanted an autopsy, why did she not be honest and tell the police where the body was. She then when off on one about how the police pile up charges against people, everyone would blame Mark, etc…

Could not see this bit covered anywhere, but I thought it was interesting. The prosecuting barrister asked her about the state that she was in when she was arrested. How she was absolutely filthy and had not taken care of herself and that if she was in this state, then how could she possibly have looked after Victoria. He referenced pictures that were taken of her on arrest which showed that she had two large welt marks on her back and her legs were covered in scratches and scabs. At this point she went off on one saying that the police had no right to take pictures of her and that these were private and should not be shared with anyone, including the jury. She claimed the police had told her that these would not be shared. The judge told her off for making this statement. She did not explain the welts but said that the scabs on her legs were due to walking through brambles. She also justified that it was because she loved Victoria so much that she neglected to care for herself and that showed just how much she did not neglect Victoria.

The prosecution ended things rather suddenly I thought! Her barrister then questioned her over a few things that I think have been reported. She said she had not lied to the jury and had not lied about the circumstances around Victoria’s death. He also asked her about access to funds and she claimed she did not have access because her bank card had gone, and she could not access her phone for internet banking. When she went back to sit with MG, he gave her the thumbs up sign and there was a fair bit of whispering and looking at each other, etc…

Next in was Professor Fleming. He gave all his background details but then he started to get asked about his opinion on how old Victoria was when she died, etc… He was not very good! He started talking about things that were not relevant or actual facts and so the prosecuting barrister and the judge objected, and he had to stop. Apparently the barristers will group tomorrow morning to agree what he can comment on and he can speak again tomorrow. Every time Professor Fleming got interrupted by the prosecution, CM and MG were very agitated and obviously not happy with how they viewed he was being treated.

Court is sitting tomorrow but only for a short time I think I heard. There is then a break to the 8 April. I did not get the impression that there is much more coming up and so expect the summing up to be done fairly soon.

I am not there tomorrow, but hope to go back for the summing up.

 

[DipsyDoodle]

Well will the claw clip make an appearance today ?
Are they due to sit today? Will this trial ever end?

The year is 2074. England is an apocalyptic wasteland. In court, Constance still sits, claw clip in hair, wanging on about Bedouin tents and Mongolian yurts. Several members of the jury have passed away from old age, those that haven't wish for the sweet release of death to provide respite from her nonsensical ramblings...

 

[Hyacinthsquash]

The biggest F U to authorities would be for them to find Constance and MG months later, settled with a happy baby Victoria in a comfy warm home and proving them all wrong. They have only solidified opinion that they are not fit to parent. Wild that the anti SS groups can’t see this.

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

Been behind on the threads so sorry for jumping backwards on discussions. I can speak from my experience. 2 of my children were placed with a family member and spouse when they were removed from my care. I was grateful they didn’t go to strangers. But it was a mammoth task for my relative (who had never had a child of their own). When I had tried to thank them they said “well I didn’t really have any choice”. I later found out their spouse had told one of my children so, and that they didn’t want him there. I try not to hate this person because if it wasn’t for my failings nobody would have been put in that position. But to make a child feel unwanted at their most vulnerable point is unforgivable. I suppose what I’m trying to say is that people who are foster carers for a living want to and expect to take children in, and receive training in how to support a child with trauma. They’re not having their whole life turned upside down and they have the choice if they don’t think a particular child would do well with them. Family carers are often dropped in the deep end with not much notice, very little support or guidance and may do so only because they feel compelled. I wouldn’t look down on anyone who is asked to take on a relative’s children and says no. Sometimes it’s the right thing.
CM/MG children may well have had a bad experience at a placement, nothing is ever guaranteed and as someone else pointed out there may have been another child there who was problematic. But who’s fault was it they were there in the first place?! The same people who were unwilling to make the changes to get them back home! They are just the type to dangerously neglect their children and then make a huge stink about some minor thing the carer has or hasn’t done, there’s a lot of that about. If you two morons could do it better then why didn’t you?
I’m wondering also about that gap when nobody knew where they had gone. I’m guessing now they were being housed/“helped” by one of this network of crackpots. On that note, I wonder if the defence witness will be one of these people? They would do anything to get a platform to air their grievances and toxicity towards “the system”.

 

[Bleekemolen]

@Bleekemolen did you manage to go to court today ? Claw clip in situ? No reporting that we can see so far today ? our noses are hanging off

Yes I did!! I’m just home!!

I’m not sure how much I can say and so will take a look at what has been reported before I do.

I had lunch in a coffee shop near the Old Bailey - it was called Tattle and I thought of you all!!

 

[spillallthetea]

 

[upyernelly]

https://supportnotseparation.blog/ this is the group

Not one of those articles that I could see, are peer reviewed and from a legitimate source.
This group is clearly an echo chamber where shit parents go to find others who validate them.
It is very difficult to make the threshold for removal, I have lost count of the number of children I’ve taken to meet parents who are shit. The contact is shit. The parents spout this shit about ‘bonuses’ we get for separating their children during contact (if they ever turn up), and the children are sometimes so frightened and sad, I’ve had children wet themselves but the court still orders them to see their parents because of the parents rights.
It has to be completely FERAL with a real risk before a court decides on removal.
There are always exceptions but they are thankfully rare.
Children do better with their own families, even if their families are shit. All the evidence proves this. Good practice is keeping families together with support that is always the aim. We spend millions on family support and I know in my affluent region we get 400 referrals per month from families asking for help and the teams are getting bigger and bigger. The emphasis is on support.
These people don’t have two brain cells to rub together.

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

The cold is a massive thing for newborns. I remember when my youngest son was born in hospital and I didn’t know how to work the lights or shut the window in the room. He arrived very quickly (the midwife had gone to get a pack to break my waters as she thought I was being dramatic when I said he would arrive any minute). She went off her nut at the poor medical student who had had to deliver him (read panic, shout encouragement and furiously pat my leg as he popped out ) for leaving the window open and he had to be put in the incubator/resuscitair thingy with a hat on until the room warmed up.

Spoiler: Merail

Just wanted to say thank you for being kind when I share my experiences of the care system. I’m honestly not fishing for compliments or thinking I’m better than anyone who went through similar and didn’t turn it around (except maybe these two selfish creatures!) I just want to add to the discussion if I think of something useful and I won’t be offended if it’s not acknowledged or if anyone thinks badly of me because of it. Time moves so slowly and painfully every hour you’re separated but for children time is not your friend. They hit milestones and grow so quickly that if you don’t seem to be making progress then they need to be settled somewhere you are not in order to develop normally and feel secure. It’s a hard process to go through because all your failings are laid out in black and white and discussed at length at every meeting. Sometimes it just feels like you are under attack and will never be able to redeem yourself. You could succumb to self pity and lose sight of the fact you need to swallow your pride and focus on the children. I can imagine it’s easier to be in denial about it, or to try and minimise the devastation you have caused your children by letting them down so badly. My children have been back with me for some time now but we are still picking up the pieces and trying to reassure them they are safe and secure. If I was trying to blame others and not addressing the problems of the past I don’t think we would ever achieve that. It’s this lack of insight I find so frustrating when hearing from CM. Even if she felt she was doing her best in difficult circumstances she should accept that her best was nowhere near good enough for any of her children and the way Victoria was treated was appalling. All to prove a point and keep their trophy. It’s so sad.

 

[Allmyownopinion]

Just read a young woman’s post whose twins were taken into care, claiming she was the perfect mother and SS only took the kids because they were mixed race……further down her post admits her violent partner beat her unconscious so the babies were left alone for hours and all only saved when ambulance crew discovered them, oh & admitted SS supported her and her children in housing away from him but she kept taking the kids back to him despite them telling her the damage it would do to them, kids then witnessed him knocking out all her teeth and then she admitted she turned to drink & drugs & then refused to engage with SS when concerned neighbours reported her kids screaming crying when her & the fella were fighting…….but yes they removed them for nothing, she was a great mum & they always had matching clothes which proves it honestly despair I need to stop looking at these groups, sad for her but sadder for the traumatised kids who they literally don’t give a fuck about!

 

[Emsie]

As with most things no one talks about social worker success stories. For every arthur, logan and Star, thankfully there are 100s and 100s of sw success stories. My family is one. @Lynn’ssnazzycardigan is another.

 

[MurielSnark]

Just read a young woman’s post whose twins were taken into care, claiming she was the perfect mother and SS only took the kids because they were mixed race……further down her post admits her violent partner beat her unconscious so the babies were left alone for hours and all only saved when ambulance crew discovered them, oh & admitted SS supported her and her children in housing away from him but she kept taking the kids back to him despite them telling her the damage it would do to them, kids then witnessed him knocking out all her teeth and then she admitted she turned to drink & drugs & then refused to engage with SS when concerned neighbours reported her kids screaming crying when her & the fella were fighting…….but yes they removed them for nothing, she was a great mum & they always had matching clothes which proves it honestly despair I need to stop looking at these groups, sad for her but sadder for the traumatised kids who they literally don’t give a fuck about!

Awful.

I imagine there's shock and trauma experienced by parents when their children are removed, no matter how terrible their parenting. That's undeniable.

However, what these whacko anti-SS groups show is how people who have little self-awareness and who obstinately refuse to take responsibility for their own destructive behaviours find common cause with others stuck in their own closed loops of blame and recriminations. They band together and reinforce each others' delusions. Instead of focusing their energies on improving their situations, they just shout abuse at the govt.

I was peripherally involved in a case during lockdown that saw SS remove a newborn from their parents. Our community mutual aid group was delivering food and groceries to various households around our neighbourhood and this couple raised huge red flags whenever one of our volunteers went to them over a few weeks. We agonised over it but decided to report them to SS because we knew local post-birth visits were limited due to Covid and we worried that no professionals had seen the situation in that house. We made the call that we would rather err on the side of being wrong and being called busybodies than let a newborn infant suffer. It was the right call and our evidence helped SS meet the threshold to remove the child. And it turned out they'd been wriggling out of various offers of support for months, just like CM and MG.

I still agonise over it, TBH, and wonder what happened to all of them.

Child welfare is so hard for all involved. But the rights and wellbeing and safety of the child must always be the priority.

 

[Hyacinthsquash]

Real emotional abuse is letting your kids down at a contact centre when they’ve been promised they’ll see mummy and daddy and leaving them distraught. Real abuse is taking a newborn out in freezing conditions in a sleepsuit and camping in a filthy tent with her. But Constance doesn’t think either of these things are an issue so I’d be wary of what she classes as child abuse..

 

[MoistPlinth]

I keep thinking about when I went camping in summer. I was in a double camp bed off the ground, sleeping with my partner. We had a big duvet and sheet underneath us, a big duvet and a blanket on top. I had pyjamas and socks on. And I was still cold. I’m a perimenopausal fatso, so permanently hot. That poor baby on the ground in just a sleep suit in the middle of winter.

Poor poor Victoria, Constance is very very far from an excellent mother, she is quite delusional.

 

[Emsie]

I mean, it's not always possible and nobody should ever feel obliged to take on four children - or frankly, even one - when they didn't produce them, are not responsible for their plight, no matter how many resources they have. Being a parent is something that should be done by people who want to be parents and not people lumped with the progeny of others who cannot be arsed to be at minimum decent parents or who are eternal bloody irresponsible fuck ups. People's lives are their own. I hate this idea that because you are genetically related to someone, you have some moral obligation to deal with their mistakes, whatever they are. People have their own lives, plans, existing relationships, responsibilities and personal dreams and shouldn't be expected to destroy their own lives, careers, living arrangements, existing family and relationships to take in a string of likely messed up kids they don't even know and aren't going to be easy to deal with. Kids won't thirve where they are not wanted and I'd be surprised if any child brought up by CM and Daddy Bear aren't going to be the level of mess that nobody can cope with or would want to. Not to mention they have likely been conditioned to hate anyone in CM's family, by CM.

Note. I had a BF back in the day who had spent several years in social care, along with his three siblings, due to being suddenly orphaned. All kids in their early-mid teens. One relative begrudgingly took them in out of guilt and SS pushing it as the only thing to do, and the whole thing fell apart in a very short period of months - relative couldn't cope with four stroppy bereaved teenagers, the house was overcrowded, the kids were all the kind of messed up a single ageing female relative neither could not or could be expected to deal with ... and in the end they ended up in a different care arrangement I won't describe here as it was novel at the time and therefore makes them identifiable, but it worked out for the best. Not that it was great, but the scars existed whoever they were with, and being in a house with a mega stressed relative who couldn't cope was doing them zero favours either.

As far as I am concerned the only villains in these cases are not family members who don't want to take on extra children, but the disgusting so-called parents who failed in the most basic of responsibilities toward children they chose to create.





I h

I wholeheartedly agree with this. A fact of life that gets glossed over is that children removed from their birth parents will be traumatised their whole life. You can't love it away, you can't parent it away you have to live alongside it. How that presents vary I know adopters that are physically attacked by their children. You need to be prepared to take this on and love unconditionally, and keep showing up even when you don't want to. Parenting a traumatised child will never be the same as parenting a birth child.
Adoption isn't a rainbow fairy story and I completely get that people would say no thank you.

 

[Emsie]

Removed from both parents by the look of it, how on earth was she able to disappear with them. Hope they’re found safe and well soon.

Not the most pressing issue but Pauly-boi. FFS.

 

[GrunkaLunka]

She doesn't come across as mentally unwell to me, just really, very thick, selfish and a horrible person. I don't care how great your education was, and which schools and universities you went to. If you believe that a doctor in hospital can't be trusted because they're part of some huge network of government employed baddies, and that social workers personally profit from removing children from their birth parents then you're quite obviously stupid. It is so tempting to try and find reasons why someone would do something, to rationalise how this came to be. Sometimes the answer is simple, she is just a fucking horrible cunt.

I know that if Conspiracy Marten was to read this, she would no doubt tell me to wake up, open my eyes and stop being a sheep. As a typical thicko of her ilk, when asked a question she is unwilling to answer, she'll just ramble on about some nonsensical shit and deflect. It is utterly pathetic.

Unfortunately, as well as being thick as shit, she's also fucking cruel. Whatever the circumstances were which lead to her 'going on the run' she failed to meet even the most basic needs of her vulnerable newborn baby. The fact that the baby was found dumped in a shed, rotting away in a bag full of rubbish, in a shitty nappy gives us all the insight we need into how much she cared for that child.

She's a monster, and I hope that if she ever has another baby it will be whisked away from her before she can even set her eyes upon it.

(I also think MG is a cruel, horrible piece of shit)

 

[WadieHaddadsChocolates]

I think she spends a lot of time in her own little fantasy world where she was a perfect Earth mother with faithful Daddy Bear to support and share her vision. I would be inclined to believe her when she says she suffered childhood trauma as she seems trapped in time where you play pretend with dollies, drag them around on adventures, cuddle them in bed, always dictating the narrative and woe betide anyone who tells little Toots she’s doing it wrong. With him saying very little, if anything, other than making demands for food, respect and painkillers it’s hard to judge. But to have committed the crime he did, at that age, then spend more years than he’d previously been alive locked up with other rapists, murderers, gang members… he’s not going to have developed into an adult as other men have done. Although their backgrounds are very different they both come from environments where everything is done for you and provided for you (she had nanny and cook, he got 3 hots and a cot) so it’s no wonder that they couldn’t manage to keep house or provide any stability for their kids. In my opinion either of them could have got by with a “normal” partner to offset their shortcomings, but together they are just a disaster.

Yes, I agree. He's institutionalized and gravitated to exactly the kind of woman who can support him financially and she's a horrifically spoiled rich kid who has a history of believing in profoundly stupid nonsense that most people can see as stupid nonsense from a mile off (TB Joshua is the reddest of flags, literally a moron magnet) who has never had to grow up and feels entitled to do whatever she wants, when she wants, and receive financial support for it from the sky for doing it.

I disagree she must have experienced trauma - she just has the self-absorption and entitlement of her class dialled up to eleven. She comes off to me as typical of someone already prone to thinking she's the centre of the universe who simply never heard the word 'no' growing up and when she does hear it now, perceives it as an aggression on her very being. She is clearly also someone rich, spoiled and regardless of education, thick enough to romanticize poverty and reject aspects of modern life that actual poor people tend to clamour for for good reason.

She clearly has a lot of inherent narcissistic traits, talks about herself in the highest terms constantly, centres everything on herself and her relationship with a convicted sex offender, and is stubborn enough to descend to the depths she has. and throw every child she has to the wolves for it.

The way she speaks to the court shows ZERO humility or perception of how awful she comes across in a setting that will decide if and how long she's locked up in prison, which will dictate her life after prison too. She thinks SS interference was bad, try life with a serious criminal record.

Some people are just immature idiots who life hands opportunity and riches that allow them to never experience consequences and remain a juvenile, horribly entitled personality for life. Plenty of examples of awful trust fund adults around who screwed up their entire lives due to being spoiled and never having to graft or live within limits, and who committed criminal offences in the end.

Toots should be profoundly and permanently humbled by waking up with a dead baby and by the experience of leaving her to rot in a plastic bag in a shed, but she displays nothing like humility or even really regret for any of her choices whatsoever. She's the same braying upper class twit she probably always was, demanding the proles cater to her, even in court where most people would be intimidated into thinking very carefully about how they behaved there.

I'd wager half the source of her conflict with SS is her class entitlement that people like her are above the laws of the land.

 

[Cat Face]

Prof is giving evidence on his research based on children living in the cold in Mongolia.. @HistrionicSites i see were he’s going now

Yes, but... (and this is aimed at the prof etc) that's all very well and good, but the babies in Mongolia generally don't die, this is because their parents put clothes and blankets on them and don't neglect them. If babies in cold countries survive, then this gives even more weight to the fact Victoria was neglected to death INCLUDING not being warm enough, as we've seen what few clothes she had.


Hi to everyone BTW, I've been lurking and reading for a few threads.

 

[Liverbird2003]

When I was a student midwife and I did a placement in the neonatal unit, the thing that sticks out most in my mind was the nurses telling me the most important thing is keeping the baby warm. They said so many neonatal unit admissions could be avoided just by ensuring the baby does not get cold. If they get cold, their blood sugar drops and if not correctly managed, it can be fatal.
That poor baby was put in dangerous sleeping positions every day of her little life and must have been freezing cold. No wonder she was calm and slept a lot, she must've not had any energy to wake and feed.