Assisted suicide

[Maid22]

Just watching the news about Esther Rantzen, I really agree about her choice, or anyone's else's choice to end their lives.
How many folks are in hospitals or care homes, with no lives, I don't like mentioning the word but like a vegetable, who'd want that? And who'd want if they had the choice to end it? Most of us, we should be given the choice.

 

[ElChanguito]

I can totally understand how Esther feels, she has had a long time now after her diagnosis to think about everything. The realities of it are not very nice because you can’t travel with a loved one (they could be arrested and questioned on assisting suicide), you have to go alone. I don’t know what methods Dignitas use, but I assume you get ass loads of pain relief and anaesthetic and whatever you want really. That’s much preferable to the end you’d get in an NHS hospice, trust me. Cancer death is just horrendous. If we can end an animal’s suffering, we should allow ourselves the same dignity.

But, it is open to abuse. I don’t know how you could apply it to someone with dementia who has No understanding.

 

[PineappleQueen19]

I read a frank and moving piece in The Sunday Times a while ago about what the process in Zurich involves, sharing it here in case anyone else finds it as enlightening as I did:

Why I took my husband to die at Dignitas: https://archive.is/kns58

 

[Lollylaylow]

I have always been for AS but seeing how people were treated during covid has made me re-think. I don't trust those in charge not to take it further.

There is absolutely no need for anyone to die in pain in this day and age. I would advise people to try not to go into hospital for end-of-life care and try to stay at home with a hospice team or a hospice.

 

[TheStrawberryThief]

I think it should be available for those who want it, but I also think that their needs to be more funding and places made available for hospice care and palliative care. Then people can have a choice.

My dad suffered horribly for the last week of his life. I don't understand why our loved ones must be forced to suffer like that for no reason. I would not allow an animal to suffer like that, so why do we allow people to?

 

[HumptyDumptyLou]

I’ve always believed in preserving quality of life and hate that we can make this choice for our beloved pets (who aren’t able to tell us how they’re feeling) and yet we can’t legally (in Australia) make that same choice for ourselves.

 

[LittleMy]

I’m all for it and have been for a long time. My uncle died a painful death to cancer last year and it was horrible for our family to watch his suffering and not be able to do much to help him. It’s cruel. Obviously nobody would want to see a system introduced that could be abused, but as long as there was strict legislation and criteria put in place then I don’t see why it can’t be for those of sound mind who can consent and already know that they have a terminal illness that will sooner rather than later take their life. Why do we prolong their suffering? I’ve cared for people in the end of their lives and held their hands right to the end, and most have told me they just wish it was over now.

 

[Rosie glow]

I believe everyone should have the right to end their life in a dignified Manor if they choose too, I watched my beloved aunt die from secondary cancer and nobody should have to suffer like that if there is no quality of life left, as others have mentioned animals are not left to suffer so why are humans
Obviously it brings up alot of arguments, for example manic depressives to them they probably don't have any quality of life but physically may be perfectly healthy does that make sense I hope so and as mentioned people with dementia who maybe can't make their own decisions its a very grey area isn't it
Its definitely a subject however hard that needs to be discussed

 

[Piff paff puff]

I heard that you have to make your decision at dignitas before you lose your faculties. So I assume someone in the grip of dementia or other cognitive degenerative diseases would not be a suitable candidate.
If we had a vote to legalise AS in the UK I would vote yes. It's disgusting how people are left to suffer esp end of life if you end up in hospital where they withhold food and water. Although I've heard some people close to death can't swallow.

 

[Rockin' Robin]

My partner and I, lost a close friend a year ago to prostate cancer. He had been ill for a long time, his last few years were spent in and out of hospital. I won't go into too much detail about the appalling lack of care he received, from his Doctor's surgery, when he was at home.
To watch his slow and painful decline, is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. It was his wish to live out the rest of his life in his own home, but it was not to be. He ended up in a hospice, which he hated. He should have been able to die at home, but as I have said the care wasn't there.

 

[yeoooo]

I think calling it assisted suicide adds even more of a stigma to it - I feel it is more assisted dying. As people have pointed out above, we can make decisions to end our loved ones lives or withhold care or we can end our animals suffering but not our own. I agree that it has to be heavily regulated but there are people out there that need the choice to end their misery and pain - as a human race we should remember we are human kind

 

[Dragon100]

We kept my mum at home, in the UK, and she was under the palliative care team. We had a black backpack in the house with syringe drivers morphine and midazalam that could have been used by the medical staff to 'open the pathway' when her time came! About a week before she died I was with her and her Dr was coming to visit, mum was convinced the Dr would talk to her about the using the black bag. Her Dr didn't, and I told her she wouldn't, mum was disappointed, she had had enough and wanted to die. A week later I got the call it was time to say goodbye. I drove to my brother's place of work (due to his shifts and not having a car he had only had one visit during in the time she was in a hospital bed at home) picked him up. Took him to my family home she was totally transfixed on him for an hour (J is here - was the most coherent words we had had since the previous day) then she lost focus on him and at that point she could no longer see. The nurse was about to go off shift and discussed with me about setting up up the drivers but it would have been more traumatic trying to find a vein than just let her go in the next 20 minutes . It was a good death and she saw my brother before she passed!

I have always agreed with the right to choose assisted suicide when you have a life limiting condition, but we couldn't get mum out of bed let alone to Switzerland, rules need to change in the UK.

 

[Sabbie]

Terry Pratchett did an excellent documentary about ten years ago called “choosing to die”. You do witness a death at Dignitas. Worth a watch if you can find it anywhere.

I live in a state that has “medical aid in dying”
A patient must:

• Be at least 18 year of age or older
• Have a terminal illness with a prognosis of six months or less to live
• Be capable of making their own health care decisions
• Be able to make an informed and voluntary request to their physician
• Be able to self-administer the medication

• Make two oral requests not less than 15 days apart to the physician who will be writing the prescription. Oral requests may be made in the physician’s physical presence or by telemedicine if the physician determines use of telemedicine is clinically appropriate.
• Make a written request. The written request must be signed in the presence of two (2) witnesses who are at least 18 years of age and who sign and affirm that the patient appeared to understand the nature of the document and to be free from duress or undue influence at the time the request was signed.
• Have a second physician confirm that the patient meets the required qualifying criteria.

 

[Ensay]

I'm generally in support of it, as long as there's adequate safeguarding in place, such as @Sabbie outlines above.

I've read a couple of articles about this subject in the last day or two (that were obviously written in response to Esther Rantzen's recent comments) and the one thing that slightly annoyed me was some people who've effectively said it's impossible to introduce 100% foolproof safeguarding and -- therefore -- we shouldn't allow it at all.

That sounds incredibly defeatist. How often do we say "let's not even look into this because it's too hard"?

It'd be easy for me to sit here and say it should never be allowed because I'm fortunate enough to have good health, so it doesn't impact me and may not for a long time to come. But I've got empathy for those in awful situations - such as being in pain from a terminal illness - knowing they're going to die and wanting some control over when and before the suffering gets too much.

It's always made my mind boggle that we don't allow our pets to suffer when they have a terminal illness or are close to death, but we do for humans.

 

[veevee04]

The government will legalise it and not out of kindness because we have a hugely aging population and not enough younger people paying taxes or providing care. Care homes will get worse. A sensible discussion needs to be had. I'm already thinking about my plans I know the only choice I have is an advance decision to refuse treatment. I wish if I lose the ability to recover and have low quality of life anf im distressed let me die with adequate pain relief, a syringe driver. Dont be pushing food, fluids and antibiotics. We can stave off physical death but not prevent decline.
---
Also there's times you feel incredibly cruel to still be providing treatment. There was a lady around 5 years ago she had contractures she was bent in a fixed position could no longer be moved, we had to use puppy pads instead of incontinence pads as her limbs wouldnt stretch. I would feed her and she would spit out , she had tears in her eyes, wasting away. It was utterly horrendous and I went home praying she would pass away. Death isn't always the enemy.

 

[Maid22]

Breaks my heart reading this thread, I think most folks it's all about old folk, but youngsters can go out tomorrow, have an awful accident, end up being a vegetable, would you want your relative, best friend to end up years being kept alive, when there's no hope? I'm lying here tonight with a poorly dog, he's only 5, he'll get over it, but my last dog at 13, I knew he wasn't getting any better and was struggling, so made that awful decision, but I could do that for him, but I wouldn't be able to do that for my hubby or myself.

 

[InkBlot]

Terry Pratchett did an excellent documentary about ten years ago called “choosing to die”. You do witness a death at Dignitas. Worth a watch if you can find it anywhere.

I live in a state that has “medical aid in dying”
A patient must:

• Be at least 18 year of age or older
• Have a terminal illness with a prognosis of six months or less to live
• Be capable of making their own health care decisions
• Be able to make an informed and voluntary request to their physician
• Be able to self-administer the medication
• Make two oral requests not less than 15 days apart to the physician who will be writing the prescription. Oral requests may be made in the physician’s physical presence or by telemedicine if the physician determines use of telemedicine is clinically appropriate.
• Make a written request. The written request must be signed in the presence of two (2) witnesses who are at least 18 years of age and who sign and affirm that the patient appeared to understand the nature of the document and to be free from duress or undue influence at the time the request was signed.
• Have a second physician confirm that the patient meets the required qualifying criteria.

This is actually pretty sad to think about because it excludes people with Alzheimer's or dementia and other such illnesses. It also excludes people who are no longer able to communicate, such as those with locked in syndrome.
Imagine pacing the halls at 3am looking for dead relatives, convinced they are still here. Imagine feeling terrified and confused, slowly losing your ability to think, speak, swallow, respond to stimulus. Your mind and body crumbling and no way out, no means of escape because you can't understand what's happening to you and why.
A panel of doctors and relatives with powers of attorney should be able to collectively decide in such cases. I disagree that the person should always be of sound mind or even over 18. There should be rare exceptions to the rules that are judged by the experts.

 

[MavisBeacon]

Having just experienced my father in law's death from a horrific cancer that destroyed him in a matter of months while my mother in law had to care for him until the grim end, I am 100% for assisted suicide. He tried himself by turning off his diabetes alarm in the night but MIL found him, called the paramedics and they brought him back. I can't help thinking it would have been so much kinder and less painful all round to let him go then. She's utterly traumatised by the whole thing, and he had a horrific final few weeks.

 

[veevee04]

This is actually pretty sad to think about because it excludes people with Alzheimer's or dementia and other such illnesses. It also excludes people who are no longer able to communicate, such as those with locked in syndrome.
Imagine pacing the halls at 3am looking for dead relatives, convinced they are still here. Imagine feeling terrified and confused, slowly losing your ability to think, speak, swallow, respond to stimulus. Your mind and body crumbling and no way out, no means of escape because you can't understand what's happening to you and why.
A panel of doctors and relatives with powers of attorney should be able to collectively decide in such cases. I disagree that the person should always be of sound mind or even over 18. There should be rare exceptions to the rules that are judged by the experts.

It depends really some people are perfectly content with dementia , its the family who are distressed. Other times no if someone is very distressed and has a very poor quality of life, there's such a push though to keep going with treatment to avoid getting sued or distressing families. Death has been really sanitised in society, people don't know what the dying process looks like.

If someone's content leave them be but no I don't think we should aggressively push treatment in people approaching eol. I would hope my family would respect that. Maybe we need to discuss that before assisted dying becomes legalised.