Who wants to go to the office?

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It was my parent though... it was my Dad who lost his life to Covid at under 60 years old. Maybe it's made me realise life is too short, I don't know! So yes I do perhaps feel quite differently because I've been there and now I want to enjoy my time!
Even so it’s about balancing risk. Nobody’s saying you can’t go out and enjoy yourself but if you go to a restaurant, or shops, ultimately there’s a level of personal responsibility there that you can’t exercise at work. If a shop is too busy, or a restaurant too crowded, you can walk out. You can’t do that at work and that’s why we need some sensible rules in place about distancing and hygiene and an acknowledgment that some people will feel less safe than others. My employer buys my time but alongside that there’s a responsibility on them that they do certain things to ensure my physical and psychological safety. People and employers can be morons - we all know that! That’s why we have rules to stop moronic things being done.

Everyone’s tolerance for risk is different, and we need to recognise that. And when people say we accept a certain level of flu deaths every year, well yes we do but the past couple of years have shown that we actually don’t have to. Simple hygiene rules could reduce acute illness and suffering by quite a bit, and allow other, more vulnerable people the chance to enjoy their time fully too. Much of this comes down to arguments about my personal freedoms vs. my responsibility for others and we’re really not used to having those ideas challenged.
 
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Even so it’s about balancing risk. Nobody’s saying you can’t go out and enjoy yourself but if you go to a restaurant, or shops, ultimately there’s a level of personal responsibility there that you can’t exercise at work. If a shop is too busy, or a restaurant too crowded, you can walk out. You can’t do that at work and that’s why we need some sensible rules in place about distancing and hygiene and an acknowledgment that some people will feel less safe than others. My employer buys my time but alongside that there’s a responsibility on them that they do certain things to ensure my physical and psychological safety. People and employers can be morons - we all know that! That’s why we have rules to stop moronic things being done.

Everyone’s tolerance for risk is different, and we need to recognise that. And when people say we accept a certain level of flu deaths every year, well yes we do but the past couple of years have shown that we actually don’t have to. Simple hygiene rules could reduce acute illness and suffering by quite a bit, and allow other, more vulnerable people the chance to enjoy their time fully too. Much of this comes down to arguments about my personal freedoms vs. my responsibility for others and we’re really not used to having those ideas challenged.
I agree with you, we still have screens and one ways systems at work and hopefully hybrid will be here to stay. My manager has said recently, if we're ill don't work, or if we feel OK then come in. Some people are already on Stage 3 sickness absences and the odd day off can lead to disciplinary or job loses. I work with a very sociable team and they are out a lot. All my manager sees is nights out photos and them booking girliy holidays, if they then demanded to only WFH he'd laugh at them. You're 100% right about personal responsibility, I still wear a mask on the train as does my husband.
 
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Lol ok "Homebird" i never said i would stay indoors but yea whatever.
Is there really any need to be so arsey and rude, just because someone has a different opinion to you? Whatever your circumstances in regards to shielding yourself and/or others you can't expect the rest of society to remain restricted indefinitely to protect a minority (that's a generic you btw, before anyone starts getting all defensive and emotional).

Employers have every right to dictate the terms of employment - if people don't like those terms they can chose to work elsewhere. If they want you in the office and you don't want to work in the office, you have every right to take yourself off to an employer who will give you a home working contract. But stamping your feet and whining 'you shouldn't have to go in' and it's 'pointless' is childish, especially if you are getting on with your life in other respects and would rather just dodge the commute. It's also worth bearing in mind that even at the height of Lockdown 1, only 39% of the workforce worked from home. Everyone else was either furloughed or still going out to work. Working from home consistently for the last two years is not the norm.

In regards to safety and guidelines, that is down to individual employers and how they deal with things - even with full restrictions in place some employers chose to do the bare minimum they could get away with and still put pressure on people to come in when sick. At the other end of the scale, some have gone above and beyond what they 'have' to do and will stick to a policy of not wanting people in if they have anything contagious that they could spread to other members of staff. Again, if you don't like what your company have put in place and you're in a position to do so, go a find an employer whose hybrid working/sickness policies you do like.
 
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It’s just so weird isn’t it. My immediate manager is being sensible and I know now in future if I come down with a nasty cold or cough I’ll be able to work from home and avoid spreading things around the office. However my colleague is in today with a headache, woke up in the night sweating and has had sniffles for a week apparently. Not too long ago that would have meant a PCR test, and now, nothing. I’ve fairly recently had covid so I’m not worried about myself now, but a few months ago I probably would have been a bit 🤨 but then what are you meant to do when the testing infrastructure is no longer there?

It’s going to be a real culture change for companies to encourage wfh in case of illness, as in the past most people would have dragged themselves in whatever to avoid a sickness absence going on their record - me included, I have an office based job but never had time off, a hangover from working retail where you were expected in, no matter what. On that note, I’m not sure if our HR absence policies have been updated actually.. and of course there’s always the get out clause of are people customer-facing or can they genuinely work from home 100%. It’s not a one size fits all and the perceived unfairness has potential to cause headaches for managers. I think it’s going to have to be a case of like it, or find another job with more preferable policies. Which is fair enough I think.
 
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It was my parent though... it was my Dad who lost his life to Covid at under 60 years old. Maybe it's made me realise life is too short, I don't know! So yes I do perhaps feel quite differently because I've been there and now I want to enjoy my time!
So sorry for your loss.
 
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So sorry for your loss.
Thank you... I never intended to put this in, I just wanted to highlight that even us who have lost still want life to continue, my life won't be "normal" again, neither will millions of other families sadly. But its also made me acknowledge how precious life is and we can't have restrictions forever, including at work! Lots of my friends are at work and I love seeing them!

Anyway I think this thread has gone off enough. So thank you
 
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Thank you... I never intended to put this in, I just wanted to highlight that even us who have lost still want life to continue, my life won't be "normal" again, neither will millions of other families sadly. But its also made me acknowledge how precious life is and we can't have restrictions forever, including at work! Lots of my friends are at work and I love seeing them!

Anyway I think this thread has gone off enough. So thank you
Such a lovely outlook after your experience. Sorry for your loss.
 
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Is there really any need to be so arsey and rude, just because someone has a different opinion to you? Whatever your circumstances in regards to shielding yourself and/or others you can't expect the rest of society to remain restricted indefinitely to protect a minority (that's a generic you btw, before anyone starts getting all defensive and emotional).

Employers have every right to dictate the terms of employment - if people don't like those terms they can chose to work elsewhere. If they want you in the office and you don't want to work in the office, you have every right to take yourself off to an employer who will give you a home working contract. But stamping your feet and whining 'you shouldn't have to go in' and it's 'pointless' is childish, especially if you are getting on with your life in other respects and would rather just dodge the commute. It's also worth bearing in mind that even at the height of Lockdown 1, only 39% of the workforce worked from home. Everyone else was either furloughed or still going out to work. Working from home consistently for the last two years is not the norm.

In regards to safety and guidelines, that is down to individual employers and how they deal with things - even with full restrictions in place some employers chose to do the bare minimum they could get away with and still put pressure on people to come in when sick. At the other end of the scale, some have gone above and beyond what they 'have' to do and will stick to a policy of not wanting people in if they have anything contagious that they could spread to other members of staff. Again, if you don't like what your company have put in place and you're in a position to do so, go a find an employer whose hybrid working/sickness policies you do like.
People shouldn't be rude, I agree, but phrases like "would rather just dodge the commute" are also quite divisive as it makes it sound like wanting to avoid lengthy commutes is a bad thing or lazy.

Prior to the pandemic I would commute 20 miles to work and 20 miles back 5 days a week. It would mean getting up early, sitting in a lot of traffic and then getting back later. Working from home means I work just as long, if not more, but can cut out all the extra time sitting in the car. It's great for mental health, especially as I often use that time to exercise.

I'm happy to go into the office when there's a particular need (e.g. for a face to face meeting or to speak to particular colleagues in person) but going into the office just to be seen, and then working exactly as I would at home feels pointless to me.

Now I'm technically not whinging because thankfully my employer shares my view and only wants me in the office when I'd benefit from it. But I can't take an "I'm alright Jack" approach because I know how I'd feel if I was being forced back into a crowded office 5 days a week just because certain management think it's the right thing to do, based on little to no evidence.

Sorry for the long post, it just gets on my wick when people imply that those who don't want to go back to the office full time are somehow unable to move on with their lives or can't get back to normal, etc.
 
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My employer has certainly decided that COVID is a thing of the past given they organized a company-wide in person event. There are about 3000 people in the company although all hybrid, but it was apparently packed. I know all restrictions have been lifted in Ireland, but I'm not sure how I feel about gathering everyone in the company so quickly. I didn't go because although I'm OK with working from the office, I'm not particularly looking to be surrounded by thousands of people.
 
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It's time for a new thread!

Thanks to all who have engaged so far; please continue discussion here:
 
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