Train strikes

[Folkevermore]

Folkevermore I am a Crew Planner so I know exactly what you are talking about, it can be hard to try and get these things across to people with little understanding of the railway. To be honest half of my headaches come from people who should have a good understanding of the railway sticking their oar into issues they dont understand, that's bad enough!

Had an email chain land in my inbox the other day that had been all round the houses about 'solving a problem' that I identified a fix for in 30 seconds purely by knowing what the actual plan was rather than trying to invent one outside my sphere of expertise.

The trains can be rubbish and are at the moment (for a myriad of factors) but I think it is easy to say 'lol why don't they just do X' when the whole system is complicated by it's very nature do to the layers of modernisation that have come in. That doesn't fit the narrative though, especially for politicians. Apparently the 'dinosaur' railway needs to 'get with the times' and make it easier for staff to perform different roles/sign more routes and traction. Like they did under British Rail, then

it’s definitely so frustrating that people don’t realise all of the work that goes on behind the scenes, and how difficult and complex it is to keep the railway running.

their “modernisation” techniques are useless. The way to “modernise” the railway is to actually spend money on infrastructure upgrades, but the politicians don’t want to hear that. The reason we have a “dinosaur” railway is because half of it is from the Victorian times and they don’t want to spend the money to improve it. They just want us to magically fit more trains in, and when the railways are at maximum capacity (because they want as many trains as possible to run), delays are inevitable because one person holding a train up in Euston because they’re having an argument with the British transport police can mess up the timetable in Edinburgh for the rest of the day.

 

[PinkandTwinkly]

I'm the third person that does crew planning to some extent (I'm more on the day very short notice)
We worked out absolutely arses off as did our train planners but every VSTP had to be submitted individually and then every train crewed individually. It's not just a case of pushing a button

They’re screwing over staff in more than just the monetary sense too. My partner works on the railway, and the general rule for their shifts in the past is that they will work approximately two full weekends plus an additional Saturday or Sunday out of a five week rota, and if they don’t have weekends of they will get two days off in a row in a week to allow for a proper rest.
He just got his new shift pattern options through. All of them have them working 4/5 weekends, and their days off in the week aren’t even together, so he’ll get say a Monday and a Thursday off instead.
no work life balance at all. He only earns £25k, does horrendously unsocial shift hours and he commutes to London for work too, so it’s honestly not becoming worth it anymore.
the old office job (government work) that he left four years ago now pays more, even though the railway was a pay increase for him at the time.
I think people have this belief that all railway workers earn big money, and are therefore greedy, but for most of them this isn’t the case at all.

This. I wish people understood this

All I get is "Drivers are on 70k a years
Yes. With my Toc they are but they are also not striking.

Or" The news says the average wage for a railway employee is 40k"

It may be but that is skewed very much by the higher salary of Drvs there are so many like your husband working long unsociable hours for pay that's not enough

 

[gossipgirlxxo]

I’m so glad there’s a thread for this! Has there been any update for the strikes 16th/17th december yet? I’m desperate to see my family before Christmas and that’s the only weekend I can go it’s my nan’s first Christmas without my grandad. I couldn’t go to his funeral either because it ended up on a strike day. I’m so sick of this!!

Ps, I don’t drive

 

[gossipgirlxxo]

Edit: just seen the news never mind

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

The media reporting on that offer is frankly astounding, claiming the RMT 'refuse to save Christmas' by rejecting it. The deal is being totally misrepresented, agreeing that offer is essentially agreeing to axe your own job for a lot of grades. This is what is actually on the table:

These proposals set out a two-year pay package which provides 4% increases for years 2022 & 2023. These are way below the current and predicted future rates of inflation and equate to a 20% pay cut.
A conditional no compulsory redundancy commitment is set out, but only until 1st April 2024.

1. That all Workforce Changes are accepted without reservation or industrial action;
2. Closure of all ticket offices and displacement of all retail staff;
3. Creation of a new multi-skilled station grades;
4. A mass job severance programme;
5. Driver-Only Operation of trains in all companies and on all passenger services;
6. New arrangements for mandatory Sunday working;
7. A review of all On-Train Catering services leading to cutbacks in provision and jobs;
8. Review of Fleet grades' working practices and depot driving;
9. Flexible working contracts, working and rosters;
10. Mandatory adoption of new technology with no payment;
11. New Attendance Management scheme;
12. Review of Stood Off arrangements;
13. New annual leave and sick pay arrangements.

All this supposedly because 'no-one is using the train' but I see plenty of trains full and standing. Even if the RMT agreed this, ASLEF and TSSA are still in dispute.

 

[conrea37]

The media reporting on that offer is frankly astounding, claiming the RMT 'refuse to save Christmas' by rejecting it. The deal is being totally misrepresented, agreeing that offer is essentially agreeing to axe your own job for a lot of grades. This is what is actually on the table:

These proposals set out a two-year pay package which provides 4% increases for years 2022 & 2023. These are way below the current and predicted future rates of inflation and equate to a 20% pay cut.
A conditional no compulsory redundancy commitment is set out, but only until 1st April 2024.

1. That all Workforce Changes are accepted without reservation or industrial action;
2. Closure of all ticket offices and displacement of all retail staff;
3. Creation of a new multi-skilled station grades;
4. A mass job severance programme;
5. Driver-Only Operation of trains in all companies and on all passenger services;
6. New arrangements for mandatory Sunday working;
7. A review of all On-Train Catering services leading to cutbacks in provision and jobs;
8. Review of Fleet grades' working practices and depot driving;
9. Flexible working contracts, working and rosters;
10. Mandatory adoption of new technology with no payment;
11. New Attendance Management scheme;
12. Review of Stood Off arrangements;
13. New annual leave and sick pay arrangements.

All this supposedly because 'no-one is using the train' but I see plenty of trains full and standing. Even if the RMT agreed this, ASLEF and TSSA are still in dispute.

The offer is piss poor. Fire staff to rehire. I am in a role that already has Sunday work so doesn't affect me directly. They claim no redundancies but all ticket office and conductor/train managers' jobs will become a new job.

bUt WeRe RuInInG cHrIsTmAs

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

The other day ITV news was saying drivers were 'refusing to volunteer to work on their rest days' like it was an outrage, people not wanting to work on their days off! When you have done 3am starts four days running you tend to be ready for a day off!

 

[Warpaint]

I think after the December ones it will really force everyone into a deal (one that obviously works for all sides) as I think the public will be really pissed off this time. It's the height of travel for people getting home for Christmas.

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

I hope you're right but I think the government have a dream of destaffing the railway and covid has given them the excuse to push this agenda. These are issues they have wanted to press in the past, like Driver Only Operation, and things they have been teeing up for a while - pushing ticket sales online or via automated ticket machines which means they can now focus on getting rid of booking offices and eliminating the on board staff need.

The latest pay offer to the RMT was definitely designed to be rejected so they could go on the attack as seen in the papers. Someone is also paying for bots it seems!

 

[Tublet83]

I would be bite someone’s hand off for a 4% pay increase haven’t had one for years

 

[anotheronebitesthedust.1]

I would be bite someone’s hand off for a 4% pay increase haven’t had one for years

We got offered 7.5% pay rise in my sector , currently voting on whether to accept if

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

I would be bite someone’s hand off for a 4% pay increase haven’t had one for years

As I already outlined above it isn't simply a 4% pay rise, the pay rise is tied to massive job losses and changing everyone's working conditions. There hasn't been a pay rise on the railway for years either (on my TOC anyway). If it was 4% no strings it would probably be accepted. It doesn't help that others in the transport sector like Stagecoach are getting 10% no strings.

 

[Warpaint]

So starting from today there will be no normal services until January 9th. Mental for people who need to travel.

 

[betchyhin]

And yet these train drivers get paid more than the majority of the country. Selfish so and sos

 

[Folkevermore]

And yet these train drivers get paid more than the majority of the country. Selfish so and sos

RMT doesn’t represent train drivers do you really think train drivers represent the entire striking workforce or did you forget that there are a million other railway jobs out there?

 

[Yel]

I'm not sure I buy the not safe without guards argument.

Some companies got rid of them years ago and it's made little difference.

Many of the trains here are absolutely huge with 12+ carriages so I don't think one guard would make much difference.

 

[Folkevermore]

I'm not sure I buy the not safe without guards argument.

Some companies got rid of them years ago and it's made little difference.

Many of the trains here are absolutely huge with 12+ carriages so I don't think one guard would make much difference.

I think it’s important for some things, such as if there’s a medical emergency on board. All on board staff have safety critical training and have regular training on everything from heart attacks to bomb threats.
I don’t have much faith in our population, if someone was having a heart attack or choking the general public on the train would probably just sit and watch.
I think on board staff are important for longer journeys, maybe local services not so much? They stop more often so if there is an issue it’s easier to deal with.

 

[Pushyplumb]

No onboard staff means people will just fare dodge more. I think especially during the evening knowing a member of staff is on the train makes people feel a little bit safer.

 

[Folkevermore]

No onboard staff means people will just fare dodge more. I think especially during the evening knowing a member of staff is on the train makes people feel a little bit safer.

This is what I was interested in - will the loss in revenue outweigh the cost of staff? Especially as a lot of stations don’t have ticket barriers

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

ASLEF, the train drivers union, have yet to call anymore dates as far as I am aware.

The RMT, as already mentioned, represent almost all the grades on the railway especially when it comes to frontline staff.

TSSA have got a strike mandate at some TOCs but not all, they are more management side and their membership take up is way below ASLEF and the RMT.

Like many things about the railway, it's multifaceted and complicated to understand from the outside. Which leads to people witrering about train driver salaries and ignoring the actual issue with the proposals: thousands of jobs lost.

Some services run without a guard it's true, the TFL DLR, the Manchester Metrolink. The Metrolink is the wild west without onboard staff prescence: drugs, gangs and sexual offences are rife, people are left to rely on the almost non existent BTP prescence when there is a problem or to try and resolve issues after they have already been a victim.

I was a train conductor for 10 years, I can assure you the general public are thick as duck. My motto to new starts was 'you always think you've seen the stupidest behaviour ever then someone comes along and tops it.' Time and again this was proven right. For every seasond traveller who knows exactly where to stand for their preferred seat there are people who enter a station and their brain falls out.

There are also plenty of chancers trying it on. I have had to deal with on board mass brawls, a drunken idiot slashing his artery punching through a glass panel in the middle of nowhere, domestic violence, indecent exposure, I have been physically attacked by passengers and threatened. I have had to look after people including a new mum with a baby when a train has been stranded in the middle of nowhere late at night due to a fatality further up the line.

Recently, I was travelling back from Manchester Victoria when a woman was sat infront of me with her daughter was bothered by a weird bloke. He was drunk, sat across from them and engaged her young daughter in conversation before threatening to kill her stuffed rabbit. I immediately spoke to my platform staff colleagues (as I was off duty and had imbibed a few beverages) who ejected him from the train and the station. Jobs that wont exist under the new deal.

A good guard can deal with overcrowded services, boisterous passengers, undesirable elements and disruption as well as selling more than enough tickets to cover their salary many times over. On a good Monday morning I used to clear £2000 selling weekly season tickets.

The government and the train companies have a dream though. A dream where they get rid of all the frontline staff, especially competent people who can manage difficult situations, and have a few contracted in drones whilst passengers have to buy online or from a machine. If that doesnt work for you, tough tits it's a penalty fare. Booking offices can make tens of thousands a week even at smaller locations. Where will all this additional profit go if they save all the money they spend on staffing? If you think it will mean cheaper tickets I have some magic beans to sell you.