The Archie Battersbee case #11

[bubbadabut]

Hopefully this is the last thread. Probably my last comment as I don't feel there's much left to say.

As much as I think her actions have been despicable, there's no doubt Hollie has been egged on by unscrupulous religious groups, the media and her cohorts on Facebook.

Today she is a mother who has been given a set time as to when she will watch the life finally ebb out of her child. I cannot imagine the pain. Yes, I know he was already gone but it's the finality of it all.

As for the staff who have cared for him, I hope they are able to have a long break, and get the support they need. However, as they work for the NHS, that's doubtful. From family experience they'll probably get an online module to work through, and have to reflect on their experiences in their appraisal.

I know we were all frustrated by the courts, but they are not the problem here. Appeal rights are there for a reason. What I do believe is that senior figures in the medical profession, especially the Health Secretary need to come out and publicly criticise groups like the CLC. It seems they are allowed to work the court system to their advantage every time, at the expense of the patients and families involved.

The way these groups are allowed to exploit the legal system is a massive problem It needs a review at the very least. I find the idea of making non-believers convert to a religion in exchange for legal services insulting to the religion and its followers. As soon as the whole process is over, like today in Archie's case, Hollie will be dropped like a stone, and they'll be on the lookout for the next vulnerable family. The families are just the vehicle for these organisations to promote their regressive views on life and death.

I haven't posted much on the last few threads, but I've been thinking constantly about this case. There are certainly lots of lessons to be learned.

Thank you to everyone who has shared their legal and medical expertise, and to all of you brave posters who have told their stories of the loss of loved ones.

RIP Archie.

 

[WrappedInPlastic]

They said 'machines were turned off and he was managing on his own for 2 hours, then went blue, and that it was awful to see a family member suffocate, it's barbaric '

Came out of lurking to comment on this. Work in healthcare/medicine.

When withdrawal of life support happens, it can take a while due to the multiple steps it takes. They stop the medications/feed first etc. Then they eventually stop the ventilation. Because Archie was brain stem dead, he would then pass away very quickly because he could not making any respiratory effort on his own. He wouldn’t ‘suffocate’, he would simply not breathe and yes, will go cyanosed (blue) as that is what happens when oxygen isn’t being forcibly pumped in the lungs and blood is not being forcibly pumped around the body anymore. That isn’t suffocating. That is death.

The language the family has used and is using is simply awful.

 

[HuncaMunca]

I’m sorry but her coming outside the hospital to tell us he’s died, an hour and half after the event, has really annoyed me. Most parents wouldn’t have managed to leave the side of their child yet. They’re already saying his death wasn’t dignified.

Attention whore to the end.

I’m so sorry Archie, you deserved better.

 

[Sneauflake]

Can I just say something?

I got here via another forum (you know the one). I didn't know what to expect, but I actually feel like I've found my people here. Thank you, all, for the compassion and civility you've shown. Y'all rock.

 

[Bootoyoutoo]

I say on Sky news Hollies little interview and a transcript and she said about all the money the NHS has wasted on fighting her in court which could have gone to Archies care and other sick children's care.

Hollie you dim whit, they fought it in court because you took them there and wouldn't listen to the advice you was given by people with more brain cells then you!

The NHS haven't wasted money . YOU HAVE WASTED IT. You have wasted precious NHS money, time, care and expertise all because you want a bit of limelight. None of it was about Archie, it was about you getting your 5 minutes of fame. You have courted the limelight before and now you have got what you wanted in the most horrific way possible.

In the same transcript you said you wanted to give your boy the best childhood and be the best mother you could be because your own childhood was shit. Well sorry you haven't done that because if you had, you would have listened to the doctors when the MRI scan was done by appointment of court and turned life support of then .

You talk about the waste of money, all the money christian aid or whatever have spent on your legal fees could have been put to better use as well .

 

[jackolantern]

Lets be real, she's deliberately making it sound like he was "managing on his own" until the hospital decided to "suffocate" him. She is completely uninformed and is playing the role of spin doctor to further her narrative that this was an act of murder from the NHS. When really, she is just an uneducated buffoon that cannot accept her child could perform no bodily function without machines, so yes, if you remove his breathing tube, he can't breathe and he will die. When the body has no oxygen it does indeed go blue, this is death.

The worst part is her gaggle of goons will buy into it all and it will also terrify people who have to make similar choices going forward. God I hate her. Your child has just fucking died and you are straight back to your circus. Absolute cunt.

 

[Tui]

Just seen this on FB from a source at the hospital:


hollie’s out. nurse told lauren summers to move into the smoking area instead of just pacing in front of the entrance chain smoking, hollie joined her.

lauren is dressed in juicy, hollie looks like she’s wearing a tracksuit? can’t quite tell. couple of wellwishers went up to her, one got a selfie.

rumours flying around the office that charlie gard’s parents sent flowers, one of my coworkers is currently sat gossiping with one of the paediatric receptionists.

they’ve both gone back in now, lauren just dumped her empty packet on the floor.

Who the fuck is approaching her asking her for a selfie when her son died today? Honestly some people are just animals.

 

[iieee]

If the Sky article is correct, it sounds like he died as soon as ventilation was withdrawn, which proves the doctors were correct IMO. I can't believe she left immediately to do more interviews. But of course she did. RIP Archie.

 

[obsoleteguitar]

I’ve been following this thread for a while, which has prompted me to post because this case has reminded me of the painful memories myself and my family suffered four years ago.

In 2018, my beloved 18 year old brother passed away after a suicide attempt. He had been suffering considerably with his mental health after being rejected for the 2016 Olympic Games by his team. My brother was a wonderful boy who was bright, intelligent and popular. He became diagnosed with ADHD just like Archie and displayed signs of depression. As a family, we made sure preventative measures were in place to make sure he didn’t spiral down and as long as he was at home, we made sure he was safe.

This lasted roughly four months until one day he didn’t return home from his girlfriend’s. Normally we wouldn’t have considered this as abnormal but she rang us to say he tried to hang himself on a coat rack in the bathroom. We were heartbroken and felt we failed him in every way. Our first instinct wasn’t to contact the media or hound the press but to deal with this privately. My brother started to show signs of improvement (he started to talk) after two months of his brain injury (he was starved of oxygen for six minutes) but after a week of being off life support, he passed away at night. Even though he was improving, it took his toll on him as his insides were rotting inside.

Even if he had survived, doctors believed he would be in a severe vegetable state and neither any of us wanted this to happen to him. The worst anyone can do is delay the inevitable. I know it’s a horrible thing for someone to come to terms with, but seeing Archie lie there as a corpse made me emotional, he was so unrecognisable from his admission that I can’t help and think, from Hollie’s accounts of the events don’t seem to match up.

Mental health in young boys is underfunded and not understood enough. My brother suffered so much due to pressure and not fitting in and I feel this for Archie so much. I’d love for his mother to openly admit he was suffering and to offer her support to MH charities but it’s wishful thinking. I just hope he’s resting in peace now

 

[H0nb]

As an ex-nurse, I’ve seen some people suffer some pretty unpleasant deaths, where despite every attempt, it hasn’t always been possible to control death or because someone catastrophic event has taken place. I’ve also seen incredibly peaceful deaths.
I don’t imagine Archie’s death was barbaric, even though any death will be distressing for loved ones to watch.
It will have been controlled and measured, affording both dignity and respect. He may have changed colour but he won’t have struggled to breathe or felt any anxiety because he isn’t there. If only his family could get their heads around this.
Medical professionals cannot “sanitise” death. They cannot take away the reality of it. Sometimes there are things we all have to deal with, unpleasant as that is. Their job is first and foremost to make death dignified for their patient and then to cater for the family’s needs.Hollie’s needs are secondary to Archie’s but she has never accepted that. Yes, it’s horrid to watch someone you love die but it’s a part of life there is no escaping.
Archie deserved do much more than he has been given by his family, bless him

 

[Big frank]

What really pisses me off about this situation with Hollie is she clearly didn't listen and thought she knew better than the medics.

Some years ago my husband had his tonsils out. Following the surgery he had three bleeds. Two were moderate bleeds. The first stopped spontaneously. The second, a few hours later, required surgery. He was in hospital for a week and then discharged.

3 days later he bled again. This time it was next level. His BP was so low they couldn't safely transfer him to another specialist hospital for a few hours. He was evenrually blue lighted to the hospital with a dr, nurse and three paramedics.

On arrival he was bleeding profusely so there was a massive team of people working on him. All had a specific task. Because it was his throat that was bleeding it was very visual. I remember throwing up at one point it was so traumatic to see. At one point they questioned if it was an arterial bled.

It took several blood transfusions to stablise him enough to get him to theatre, as fast as they were transfusing him it was coming straight back out. Whilst they were preparing him for theatre the lead medic took me to one side and told me that they expected husband to die during intubation... if he made it through that there was a chance he'd develop pneumonia if the blood was forced Into his lungs. He said the best case scenario would be a long stay in ICU and a secondary infection.

When they moved him to theatre 7 staff came with us and a defibrillator. My husband was still fully conscious and as we got to the door of the theatre my husband asked me if he was going to die. After the conversation with the doctor, I knew it was likely he could. I told him not to be silly, told him I loved him and had to step back and hope he actually did survive.

He was in theatre for most of that night. They really struggled to stop the bleeding. But at 6am in the morning the dr came to see me in the relatives room and told me he'd made it through the surgery. He explained exactly what they did to stop the bleeding and told me that my husband had responded incredibly well to the surgery.

My husband escaped a stay on ICU buy was on HDU for two weeks, and a regular ward for another week. His recovery took months but they saved him

He needed 14 units of blood and lost his sense of taste for a year but he made it through.

It was a terrible wait in the relatives room while they saved him. Our kids were 2 and 4 at the time and it made me reevaluate everything. I was thinking how I was going to explain to my kids. My daughter had woken up with the commotion while I was trying to get the ambulance and had seen her dad bleeding all over the bathroom..

my single criticism was that the ambulance took 50 Mins to arrive. Even the paramedics were angry and the priority my husband had been given considering the severity of his bleeding.

But the one thing I'll say loud and clear... the staff that cared for me husband were fucking incredible. The skill and coordination that went into his care was unbelievable. They kept him for panicking ( if he did it increased the bleeding) and they approached me with kindness empathy and care. I over heard one of the dr handing my husband to a more senior dr. He was telling him my husband was " bleeding like a stuffed pig". He was mortified that I overheard the conversation. My response was " well he is". He still apologised repeatedly and said he'd understand if I complained. I said don't be stupid as you were stating a fact.

The point of my story is the NHS is amazing and don't deserve the bullshit they have had thrown at them by hollie Dance. I was lucky that my husband made it but put my trust in the hospital... its such a shame for Archie that she didn't. Its even sadder that Archie's death was turned into a massive shitshow.

 

[Babushka_Bee]

Still have to get a dig in, don't they. Ffs what did they expect would happen? The poor child was brain dead. I watched both my parents gasp for breath as they died too. Did I think it was barbaric? No. It was how they died as their bodies shut down. What did they expect would happen exactly? The medical staff would have explained what would happen.

I hope the poor boy is finally at peace, and I'm sorry for him that his family put his body through all this. He deserved better.

 

[Lalalemon]

My nanna took 5 and a half DAYS to pass after life support was withdrawn, 2 hours is nothing. People just think they'll flatline and that'll be it the minute the vent is removed and that's not reality.

He didn't take 2 hours to pass after the ventilation was withdrawn though, the ventilation was withdrawn 2 hours after all his medications were stopped. He sadly passed instantly when the ventilation was withdrawn. They've spun their words to make it sound like he was breathing for 2 hours.

 

[anotheronebitesthedust.1]

My little boy is Archie’s age and he knows the nature of my job . He said to me today as he’s seen what’s been happening on the news that if he was ever in a accident and died he didn’t want me to do what his mam was doing and wanted me to donate his body parts to make other children better

 

[NoseyParkerMickyBarker]

View attachment 1477809
So this came up on my timeline. Perhaps explains why HD wanted to drag it out. She might be going to prison soon.

As someone who knows her and Archie’s dad, via separate reasons, I can vouch for what the neighbour has stated. Notice how her sisters and mother have kept away - her mother has been posting photos of her cats daily and not a lot of support for her daughter and grandson. Not much love lost.
As for Archie’s dad Paul, who I’ve known for many, many years, I can guarantee he’s been sick of the whole situation from Lisa. He has supported his son in his own way. He has three other sons, one who has extreme learning difficulties (now in his 30s) - this parade would not be something he would want a part in.

 

[GalaxyGirl70]

I know I shouldn't compare, but when my son was stillborn, we'd had a whole day in the delivery room with him and after they took him away, my husband helped me shower and get dressed. I was desperate to go home, but walking out of the ward, I had a bit of a panic attack at the thought of walking out through the hospital doors and having to face anyone. So the kind staff took us out through a back entrance, and told my husband where to drive to so we didn't have to go out through the main entrance. I'd been crying non stop for 2 days and thought I'd terrify anyone that saw me.................

The thought of standing in front of a TV crew? I couldn't even talk............... I can't work this woman out. At all.

Finally at peace Archie, may your eternal dreams be a happier place than your life was for you

 

[Emmagrace92]

To play devils advocate where the dad is concerned maybe in his mind he said goodbye to Archie back in April and is already grieving. I imagine if you don’t agree with what’s going on it must be very very difficult to sit with your son’s corpse (to put it bluntly) day in day out.

Also with coming up against Hollie he might not have wanted her dragging him through the mud as well as the NHS, sure she’d be all over Facebook etc telling everyone how even his own Dad wanted to execute him and all the other wild things she’s come up with.

I didn’t donate so I really don’t have any interest in where the go fund me money goes but what would be nice is if a family member or friend stepped in and said Hollie take a portion of the money and get yourself some private support ones this is all over rather than touring the sofas of GMB/ Good Morning/ BBC breakfast and any other outlet that will have her on.

 

[Sneauflake]

Ella said to the cameras that they stopped all medication at 10 o clock and his stats remained stable for two hours until they removed the ventilator and then he went blue. Saying it wasn’t dignified and he suffocated.

I feel a sense of relief that he’s at peace now.

This makes me so sad, because it's so very clear that despite everything they still don't really understand any of the biology/physiology.

 

[Tui]

So this came up on my timeline. Perhaps explains why HD wanted to drag it out. She might be going to prison soon.

 

[WrappedInPlastic]

I mean what language would you prefer them to use? Their son died in front of them. Not sure they'd have had time to consult the thesaurus and ensure they used the correct medical terminology tbh.

Sorry for offending any AA Hunz with medical facts.

The family saying Archie suffocated to death will have a significant and negative impact on other families who go on to make that heartbreaking choice to end life support.

What happened to Archie in the hospital when they removed the ventilator is exactly what would have happened should he have had his vent removed in a hospice. It is not suffocation. It is death.