Social Care Reform

[Saddlesoap]

So I am fairly newly retired on a moderate state pension and a very small private one. So having paid my national insurance for over 40 years I hear it said it’s not fair to put up
Ni for working people as we as pensioners don’t have to pay it. What with that and the triple lock probably being taken away what was the point of working all my life and paying my tax and ni?

I could say the same thing. I'm 37 and I'll unlikely receive any state pension at all. So that's not fair either. I don't want my payments to go up to support people more now when I'm not going to benefit from it. Yep, call me selfish, but I'd rather keep it myself and use it for my old age.

 

[Yel]

Boomers can't really play the unfair card, as just about everyone else has it worse.

I hear a lot from them "we've paid our dues" when the problem is they haven't as it's been underfunded for decades. You maybe paid all that was asked, but it wasn't enough sadly. There needs to be some collective responsibility as those in power did what was popular then and let the obvious problem build up.

Also keep hearing young people should see it as "an investment in their future" which sounds like a con - a Ponzi scheme. There's no chance putting it up now secures it for the future. I'm sure it'll all be eaten up and back to square one before the decade ends.

The fairest people to pay it are older people on high incomes, decent income from investment or pensions and they'll all avoid it.

For lots of people it's about protecting their inheritance to pass on. For the vast majority this will be lots of unearned money from house price increases. Is it really fair for the working population (many of those have the narrowest shoulders) to subsidise this inheritance?

 

[IngressUK]

View attachment 750458


Seriously. We need an integrated health & social care system. Like some on this thread have said, the younger generation (me included) will be disproportionately affected in an already unstable economic environment.

The system needs reform, not more money being chucked down and wasted in the black hole of Government spending.

The UK's total tax take was £556 billion in 2020/2021, down from £634.6 billion in 2019/20 (source: Statista.com)

Health care spending in the UK was £159 billion this year, with an additional £22.4 billion allocated to it for Covid funding (source: Kings Fund).

How much more do people think we should be allocating to the NHS?

The NHS could easily swallow up the entire UK tax take, as described a few paragraphsback, if it were allowed to. There would then be no money for education, defence, local government, police, fire, etc, etc.

People need to get real with the expectations of the NHS and what it should be delivering and to whom.

 

[ElektraWintour]

Today’s announcement stings to be honest. My husband and I already struggle financially and now we have to struggle further to fund care for pensioners with a higher income than us sitting in houses they own outright worth millions. We should be taxing the rich and by rich I mean those squirrelling their money away offshore but of course those same people sit in government so that was never going to happen.

 

[Melian]

Maybe they could start with sorting out the tax dodgers. But they won't.

 

[Yel]

Maybe worth a thread on this.

I do think national insurance is a ridiculous system as is. It tries to pretend it's not a tax when it absolutely is and the money goes in the exact same place as income tax.

It should have been abolished a long time ago and rolled into income tax or a replacement.

If they do increase national insurance it will disproportionately affect younger people who already have so much to deal with (less secure jobs, working longer, high house prices, huge debt for higher education, worse pensions etc).

Those who are older and still working won't have to pay it, those receiving their income via limited company's (and this is usually the better off) won't have to pay it and those who receive their money from investments also won't have to pay it.

 

[under the ivy]

I agree the NHS needs a huge structural overhaul (worked in the NHS - too many managers for a start). I feel we see social care as individualisation rather than it being viewed as a collective need for society - good care = health. I know the problem goes much deeper than money.

 

[no-no]

Those who are older and still working won't have to pay it, those receiving their income via limited company's (and this is usually the better off) won't have to pay it and those who receive their money from investments also won't have to pay it.

Was hoping there’d be a thread on this @Yel

The bit in bold was my first thought. It won’t even make a dent in social care, that’s just the excuse they’re using to ransack your pay packet even more. There always seems to be pots of money for useless endeavours but no appetite to fix the fundamental problems. Social care contracts have been a cash cow for decades.

Also fed up of hearing adult children (due to inherit sizeable estates) lambasting people for getting their nursing home fees funded as having never worked/squandered their wages. Getting mad at the wrong people.

 

[Yel]

Totally agree with this sentiment about ‘paying dues’. Not everyone has!

I do think lots of people are totally unaware that they've taken out far more than they ever paid in. They often think unless you've claimed unemployment benefits you've never receive a penny.

The 86k is for the medical care I my that is needed , it does not cover and include meals and accommodation.

I think lots don't realise it's not for the total package. Presumably the care element is the most expensive?

I personally we need to get out of the mindset that selling (exchanging) your home for accomodation services suitable as you get older is an outrage. But it does get muddy that it's all interwoven with for profit companies.

Headlines that the funding won't even touch the sides.

 

[JaneEyre12]

Boomers can't really play the unfair card, as just about everyone else has it worse.

I hear a lot from them "we've paid our dues" when the problem is they haven't as it's been underfunded for decades. You maybe paid all that was asked, but it wasn't enough sadly. There needs to be some collective responsibility as those in power did what was popular then and let the obvious problem build up.

Also keep hearing young people should see it as "an investment in their future" which sounds like a con - a Ponzi scheme. There's no chance putting it up now secures it for the future. I'm sure it'll all be eaten up and back to square one before the decade ends.

The fairest people to pay it are older people on high incomes, decent income from investment or pensions and they'll all avoid it.

For lots of people it's about protecting their inheritance to pass on. For the vast majority this will be lots of unearned money from house price increases. Is it really fair for the working population (many of those have the narrowest shoulders) to subsidise this inheritance?

Totally agree with this sentiment about ‘paying dues’. Not everyone has! My mother in law is 90 and has never worked - she is a poster child for a 50’s housewife and yet she absolutely rakes in money from her pension! There will be a fair few like this because of the generational standards set for woman

Also, the gap between carers allowance and the cost of care homes per week is just utterly unacceptable. How can it be justifiable to pay £79 a week for carers (and only get that as long as you don’t earn £140+ a week) and yet care homes will charge from roughly £750 plus a week? It’s obscene. I don’t know what the answers are but I’m getting sick of hearing ‘we paid our dues’ when it’s been pointed out you paid what you were asked - and it wasn’t enough and now the younger generations have to mop up behind!

 

[IngressUK]

My friend works for one of these care home companies . They have loads of managers and other roles while the care workers earn £9 an hour ..

A care home assistant should be getting at least £15 an hour, in my opinion. Especially as many of these homes charge extortionate rates.

Private equity firms are (once again) an issue. Not content with maximising profit, reducing costs and loading debt onto the High Street; The care sector is now another they have gotten their grubby mits on.

Care homes: why investment firms can be bad owners

The UK government is about to reform social care, but the focus is likely to be on funding, not the companies that are allowed to have a stake in the sector.

theconversation.com

I for one DO NOT want my money, nor taxpayer money funding these shysters.

Care homes should be NOT FOR PROFIT.

 

[Elizaaaaa]

So glad to see a thread on this! I thought council tax contributed to social care costs, and an increase had already been agreed for this very purpose... Fully appreciate my knowledge is fairly limited, so hoping to learn from you lovely "trolls"!

It does feel like a kick in the teeth after we've all seen the dodgy spending that's happened the last year or so Pretty sure there will be a loophole to ensure the super rich aren't negatively impacted though, just us lowly citizens who already have to make some horrible financial decisions. My biggest one at the moment is deciding whether to drastically cut my (already frugal) food shopping to pay for counselling, or to keep going and risk being really unwell again and needing to live on ridiculously low sick pay

 

[no-no]

For lots of people it's about protecting their inheritance to pass on. For the vast majority this will be lots of unearned money from house price increases. Is it really fair for the working population to subsidise this inheritance?

This is getting a lot of peoples’ backs up. Shifting everything like nursing/youth homes to not-for-profit so the patients are prioritised not the shareholders, would have more of an impact. Why aren’t they breaking down these extortionate costs if they want us to pay for it we should be demanding to see where it goes.

 

[IngressUK]

Isnt if funny that 'those with the broadest shoulders' (rich) never seem to include the MPs themselves?

MPs now earn a basic of £81,932 a year. Add into that thousands in expenses, a final salary pension, plus a 'resettlement' payment if they lose their seat.

Their salaries have increased by over £16,000 in the last 10 years. How many other people in the public sector have had such a lavish increase?

Not to mention many have second, or third jobs in the private sector, further bolstering their income.

Is it any wonder people have little faith in any politician of any political party?

Yet, here we have today a decision that affects all working people, from the very bottom, to the very top. I highly expect MPs to wave themselves through an increase next year that will neutralise these N.I tax increases in their pay.

 

[ATV2021]

If we argue amongst ourselves we don’t actually get angry at the people who create the problems.

If the services that can be financially regulated are removed so that private enterprise can fill the gap then the rich keep getting richer, the rest of the working population has to pick up the slack.

The money charged for even basic private care homes is obscene and certainly not being passed on to the staff.

Some of the care package quotes we've had in the last 6 months have ranged from 1k a week.... to 5k a week and my personal favourite of 13k a week.

 

[Yel]

It's like the banking system, just a plaster to trundle along for a bit longer. Not the reform that actually fixes the problems.

 

[Glaschelle]

If we argue amongst ourselves we don’t actually get angry at the people who create the problems.

If the services that can be financially regulated are removed so that private enterprise can fill the gap then the rich keep getting richer, the rest of the working population has to pick up the slack.

The money charged for even basic private care homes is obscene and certainly not being passed on to the staff.

I worked for a voluntary organisation which ran a non for profit care home. The costs were ££££. Staffing a unit 24hrs a day, rent, gas, electricity, replacements etc all were expensive. The residents got a fabulous standard of care but it wasn't financially viable and had to close.

Good quality care costs money and nobody wants to pay.

 

[Clickbait]

If we argue amongst ourselves we don’t actually get angry at the people who create the problems.

If the services that can be financially regulated are removed so that private enterprise can fill the gap then the rich keep getting richer, the rest of the working population has to pick up the slack.

The money charged for even basic private care homes is obscene and certainly not being passed on to the staff.

 

[rainbowlemon]

So glad to see a thread on this! I thought council tax contributed to social care costs, and an increase had already been agreed for this very purpose... Fully appreciate my knowledge is fairly limited, so hoping to learn from you lovely "trolls"!

It does feel like a kick in the teeth after we've all seen the dodgy spending that's happened the last year or so Pretty sure there will be a loophole to ensure the super rich aren't negatively impacted though, just us lowly citizens who already have to make some horrible financial decisions. My biggest one at the moment is deciding whether to drastically cut my (already frugal) food shopping to pay for counselling, or to keep going and risk being really unwell again and needing to live on ridiculously low sick pay

I posted on the depression thread some services offering low cost therapy from £10 a session. I told my sister to email a few to get on the waitlist and go with the one that had space first. I also saw my old therapist for £20 less per session than his normal rate .

 

[IngressUK]

Some of the care package quotes we've had in the last 6 months have ranged from 1k a week.... to 5k a week and my personal favourite of 13k a week.

Care homes were whinging at the Government over PPE last year.

If they have the cheek to charge £13k a week (blatant profiteering), then they should bloody well paid for their own private supplies of PPE.

Care homes seem to want to make big profits by ripping off the taxpayer - not on.