Running #2 PF is a pain in the calf

[Melian]

I'm just the other side of Covid too. All my stamina has gone, I'm gutted! I don't race, just run for me, but I like the achievement of running a bit further and now I can barely manage 3 miles. Was up to half distance in January

My situation is different (I've not had covid; but am living with something affecting my heart / lungs which is making breathing so hard) but I'm in a similar situation. Ran my second best half marathon time ever in February at Brighton and now, I'm lucky if I can over 2 miles. I managed half a mile on Monday and had to walk the rest of the way home. Managed slightly further this morning.

Now having to email race organisers as I signed up for a race almost every month this year (apart from May and November) and know I'm going to struggle. Thankfully, a few have shorter distances.

 

[GoofyPrincess]

I don't have any advice but feel some of your pain with struggling to run post covid.

I ran a marathon in November and felt great, peak fitness etc. Took the rest of the year off to rest up and enjoy the holidays before starting training again in the NY only to catch covid just after Xmas. I tried a couple of runs in January but really struggled - could only manage 2 miles and my heart rate was crazy. Pushed myself more in February and was starting to feel like I was getting over it but then ran a half marathon last month (it was already planned and paid for) and thought I was going to collapse from about mile 7. Managed to slowly struggle on to the end but since then I feel like I'm back to square 1 with my running. Really struggling with any distance over about 2 miles and finding my breathing difficult especially on hills. I have another half marathon in a few weeks but considering pulling out as I don't want to risk pushing myself too much and setting myself back even further.

Covid sucks

 

[chickhicks86]

The weirdest thing for me was that I didn't really feel that my breathing was affected by Covid while I had it. Was lucky that I caught it after the isolation rules changed, so I was still out walking the dog etc. Was marching up really steep hills feeling no different, but now I can't manage to run them at all!

 

[laughing]

Back to running after six months off due to plantar fasciitis, foot was good but now back to square one and I think my other foot is starting to go as well.

My PF is on the tendon under my arch.

Has anyone had cortisone injection?
How did you get on with it?

When it wore off, how was your foot?

 

[TheDragonWithAFlagon]

Back to running after six months off due to plantar fasciitis, foot was good but now back to square one and I think my other foot is starting to go as well.

My PF is on the tendon under my arch.

Has anyone had cortisone injection?
How did you get on with it?

When it wore off, how was your foot?

Don't do it.

Not only is it the most unpleasant thing short of having a needle literally jammed into the joint capsule itself, but it

a. Only relieves the bits that it touches - if you have multiple tears, not only will the needle be moved in around the inside of your foot, it'll miss spots. And they'll really hurt.
b. increases the risk of a full tendon tear immediately after. Steroids are bad for tendons.
c. if it gives full relief, it encourages you to continue doing exactly what it was that you did in the first place to tear it.
d. leaves the tendons permanently at risk of further damage.
e. you can only have two injections in your lifetime because of the risk to the tendon integrity.
f. if you don't fix the biomechanics, you'll just go on to develop shin splints or achilles tendinopathy as well.


The only thing that actually stopped it for me was wearing a removable boot/cast for 12 weeks. From the moment I woke up until I got into bed at night, as it actually gave the tendon a chance to heal at the correct length. Might have healed more quickly had I also worn something to stop my foot relaxing in bed and the tendon shortening overnight, only to tear slightly again as I put my foot down the following morning.


When it threatened to come back again, I wore custom orthotics religiously and would very gently exercise my toes and shins/calves. Along with the bastard lacrosse ball exercises. It went away again.

The weirdest thing for me was that I didn't really feel that my breathing was affected by Covid while I had it. Was lucky that I caught it after the isolation rules changed, so I was still out walking the dog etc. Was marching up really steep hills feeling no different, but now I can't manage to run them at all!

I was listening to a running podcast in the gym the other night and they had somebody on saying that the effects upon lungs of any other viral infection normally last around 4 days, but for Covid, it's lasting nearer 79 days on average, based upon a bunch of already fit people who were already enrolled in a study where they filled in data from their fitness monitors/watches along with symptoms/test results/diagnosis. Some were very unwell and some weren't really, but most/all saw a decline in performance for about the same period.

It certainly made me feel a bit less critical of myself with 160bpm after about 30 seconds moving compared to my usual steady as a rock 120 - I'm only 28 days post infection, so if that holds, I'm not going to back to normal before the beginning of June. Their suggestion was go by the heart rate for intensity, rather than speed or distance.

 

[laughing]

Thank you for the reply, think it's what I wanted to hear!

The morning pain, is shocking!

I can't do the ball rolling exercise, it's just too painful.

I have generic orthotics, will look at custom ones.

I found a foot soak for about 20 minutes in Epsom salts really helped.

Think may go back to my consultant.

Thank you x

 

[TheDragonWithAFlagon]

Thank you for the reply, think it's what I wanted to hear!

The morning pain, is shocking!

I can't do the ball rolling exercise, it's just too painful.

I have generic orthotics, will look at custom ones.

I found a foot soak for about 20 minutes in Epsom salts really helped.

Think may go back to my consultant.

Thank you x

NB : This is on experience, not medical expertise. Feel free to ignore, but hopefully it helps inform decisions.





Oh, that pain - it's where it's attempted to start healing overnight in a shortened position and then your body weight is ripping all those new connections. Some people tape it so their foot is in the standing position overnight so it can't shorten - that way it isn't tearing all over again every morning.

There's a good chance that the entire chain is out - it might not just be your foot. Orthotics align you so that you aren't moving unevenly and putting stress on everywhere - ankle, knee, thigh, hip, lower back, thoracic, cervical and skull. Once you are placed in a neutral position from orthotics, you begin to realise just how assorted weaknesses have been affecting your posture; I didn't realise how much pressure I was putting on my knee or SI joints on the opposite side, for example - or just how tight my outer calf and shin muscles were on the side of the PF.


I also threw in a lot of non weightbearing leg days in the gym - adductors, abductors, presses, raises, the lot - and made a point of rediscovering my core muscles; I realised how tight or weak some of them were (and how much tendinopathy I have - it's widespread due to autoimmune and connective tissue disease but made significantly worse by poor biomechanics). The advantage of strengthening without weightbearing is that you then have the ability to move freely, fall onto your mid-forefoot rather than overstride and slam your entire bodyweight into the PF with every step. I'd definitely avoid free weights for a while, as that's adding extra weight on when your normal weight is already more than enough for the poor, damaged PF.


TBH, if you can manage it financially (assuming that you can't access a biomechanics/foot health appointment easily through the NHS), I'd say go to a Podiatrist with a specialism in biomech. The difference they can make is amazing because they have access to more knowledge and resources than your common or garden Rheumatologist, who is more likely to go for the injections because it's what they learned to do - the pods are the experts in taking time to help people without digging around from the literal side of your foot into the middle of it with dexamethasone and a bleeping massive needle unless it is absolutely essential.


And it's new shoes again. Not motion control/stability, because the orthotics are doing that job; you need neutrals, but not zero drop/barefoot or stupidly high. customs can take up a lot of space, so you'll need to have them with you when buying and will likely need a larger size, which will feel really weird at first, but perfectly normal within a short period.


I'm looking for some slightly more cushioned ones next time, as the orthotics are doing their job brilliantly, but I'm at the stage where I want a little more softness underneath the balls of my feet and a greater flex so they get used to working 'normally' again., as I have no problem going barefoot at home and can go up onto my toes/do controlled heel drops without any problems now.

 

[chickhicks86]

Thank you for the reply, think it's what I wanted to hear!

The morning pain, is shocking!

I can't do the ball rolling exercise, it's just too painful.

I have generic orthotics, will look at custom ones.

I found a foot soak for about 20 minutes in Epsom salts really helped.

Think may go back to my consultant.

Thank you x

Have you tried Oofos (other brands are available!)? I have had PF in the past and they relieved it so much. I literally wore them as slippers at all times when at home. I also notice it starts creeping back (and achilles issues on same foot) when I neglect my strengthening routine. I find shoes with a higher drop better, but that is not always the answer, as that encourages the tendon to be shorter.

I was listening to a running podcast in the gym the other night and they had somebody on saying that the effects upon lungs of any other viral infection normally last around 4 days, but for Covid, it's lasting nearer 79 days on average, based upon a bunch of already fit people who were already enrolled in a study where they filled in data from their fitness monitors/watches along with symptoms/test results/diagnosis. Some were very unwell and some weren't really, but most/all saw a decline in performance for about the same period.

It certainly made me feel a bit less critical of myself with 160bpm after about 30 seconds moving compared to my usual steady as a rock 120 - I'm only 28 days post infection, so if that holds, I'm not going to back to normal before the beginning of June. Their suggestion was go by the heart rate for intensity, rather than speed or distance.

That is interesting reading. I'm quite a lazy runner, I don't go fast and my average is usually around 130bpm for a run, but I'm usually around 150 at the moment. And Strava is telling me it's "harder than my usual effort" - haha I know, thanks! My resting heart rate is hovering as normal around 48 though, it's all so weird!

 

[snapdrag0n]

Can recommend the shock wave therapy thing for PF. Expensive. Painful. Painfully expensive. But after years and I mean YEARS. It’s finally gone and it’s weird living without it.
I also did the wearing a splint so my foot stayed in the right position all night. Stability shoes. Working on my lazy lazy lazy posterior chain, which was actually mostly caused by poor strength in my back/posture. Yoga also seriously helped, I know they say being barefoot is really bad for it, but I worked on balance/standing poses, which has really strengthened my feet and ankles.
Worth getting a private physio with hefty experience in PF for guidance. I didn’t for many years and put up with NHS crap for way too long and went through phases of ‘recovery,’ then pain that I could cope with and also being unable to do anything at all.

 

[laughing]

Thank you all for your replies, the information is great.

Doing some more reading not sure that the Pod diagnosed correctly, its the whole of my PF tendon that is sore, PF seems to be mainly on the heel. My foot, on the top is still swollen after 9 months.

I am fortunate to have private health care via work, so will go back to them and request the Pod Biomech for my next appointment.

I have generics othodics which I put into my Asics (support ones) but it was awful, so I took them out again, buying neutrals and putting them in makes far more sense.

My calf is tight, so I thought it was that that was pulling the PF in the first place but my PF is playing up again but my calf is ok.

I will have a look at oofo's, I have worn trainers for 9 months and are fed up of looking at them. I was told never to go barefooted. I used to do yoga before have had talked about going back to it for my old age, I have tried it at the start of the year but my foot is too sore.

Thank you again for all your inputs, its a great help.

 

[instanonsense]

Thank you all for your replies, the information is great.

Doing some more reading not sure that the Pod diagnosed correctly, its the whole of my PF tendon that is sore, PF seems to be mainly on the heel. My foot, on the top is still swollen after 9 months.

I am fortunate to have private health care via work, so will go back to them and request the Pod Biomech for my next appointment.

I have generics othodics which I put into my Asics (support ones) but it was awful, so I took them out again, buying neutrals and putting them in makes far more sense.

My calf is tight, so I thought it was that that was pulling the PF in the first place but my PF is playing up again but my calf is ok.

I will have a look at oofo's, I have worn trainers for 9 months and are fed up of looking at them. I was told never to go barefooted. I used to do yoga before have had talked about going back to it for my old age, I have tried it at the start of the year but my foot is too sore.

Thank you again for all your inputs, its a great help.

Could it be your posterior tibial tendon? That can cause pain in the arch of your foot and extend up your calf.

I’ve fixed a lot of issues I’ve had with my feet and ankles with toe exercises, toe spacers and going barefoot.

 

[laughing]

Oooh, will have a look.

Toe spacers are amazing!

 

[instanonsense]

Oooh, will have a look.

Toe spacers are amazing!

I love my toe spacers. They’re underused - more people should wear them!

 

[WeepingCassandra]

Anyone ever had a pair of running shoes where one seemed to have a smaller toe box than the other? I've gone back to Brookes Adrenalines for my marathon at the end of May and whilst they are really lovely to run in, like they normally are, I am getting about 5 or 6 blisters after every run on my left toes. Sometimes during a run I get a stabbing pain in my left middle toe for a few strides. I've taken these shoes up to 16 miles and generally they're pain free 95% of the run so I'm not planning to change them but was just wondering if I'm being silly or it's something actually real lol. I've never had this problem with Brooks before and have run many miles in my last two pairs without a single blister.

I actually have a second brand new pair of the same model (had to return my Sauconys as they were too small and could only do an exchange, by which point I'd already ordered a pair online) so I suppose I could try those once or twice and see if it helps but it's just a bit odd.

 

[Into_the_tunnel]

Thank you for the reply, think it's what I wanted to hear!

The morning pain, is shocking!

I can't do the ball rolling exercise, it's just too painful.

I have generic orthotics, will look at custom ones.

I found a foot soak for about 20 minutes in Epsom salts really helped.

Think may go back to my consultant.

Thank you x

I echo what everyone else is saying. I had horrendous AT in both legs and often the cause is similar (tight calves) and it can be treated similarly.

My physio was adamant that injections were the last possible resort as they could initiate tears. I was icing at times every 30 minutes (it was one of the only ways to stop the pain) but I was told not to as although the tendons do not have direct blood flow, the icing would restrict flow to the area in general.

I was given shockwave therapy- painful and expensive but at the time I couldn’t walk across the street properly and had almost got run over so I was willing to do anything. This was literally like a magic wand. A very expensive one, but I was so grateful.

I would seriously look into this route, along with eccentric calf raises. On the floor first, then off the step, then with weights.

I would also look into getting proper orthotics, having them in neutrals and work shoes. Over time, as you improve, the orthotics are altered.

With something like PF or AT it can be a long, arduous route back involving many avenues of treatment. Once, maybe months down the line when you are back running pain free, you will have to learn to run without fear and that may be the hardest thing to overcome, to trust your body again.

Sending hugs. Being injured is so hard.

Anyone ever had a pair of running shoes where one seemed to have a smaller toe box than the other? I've gone back to Brookes Adrenalines for my marathon at the end of May and whilst they are really lovely to run in, like they normally are, I am getting about 5 or 6 blisters after every run on my left toes. Sometimes during a run I get a stabbing pain in my left middle toe for a few strides. I've taken these shoes up to 16 miles and generally they're pain free 95% of the run so I'm not planning to change them but was just wondering if I'm being silly or it's something actually real lol. I've never had this problem with Brooks before and have run many miles in my last two pairs without a single blister.

I actually have a second brand new pair of the same model (had to return my Sauconys as they were too small and could only do an exchange, by which point I'd already ordered a pair online) so I suppose I could try those once or twice and see if it helps but it's just a bit odd.

Yes. I have the night version sbd the normals of the last but one Brooks Ghost. The night ones are much smaller.

I am not able to run very far at the moment (LC has raised its head again) so it doesn’t matter much for me, but I really feel for you.

Grrrr.

 

[chickhicks86]

Anyone ever had a pair of running shoes where one seemed to have a smaller toe box than the other? I've gone back to Brookes Adrenalines for my marathon at the end of May and whilst they are really lovely to run in, like they normally are, I am getting about 5 or 6 blisters after every run on my left toes. Sometimes during a run I get a stabbing pain in my left middle toe for a few strides. I've taken these shoes up to 16 miles and generally they're pain free 95% of the run so I'm not planning to change them but was just wondering if I'm being silly or it's something actually real lol. I've never had this problem with Brooks before and have run many miles in my last two pairs without a single blister.

I actually have a second brand new pair of the same model (had to return my Sauconys as they were too small and could only do an exchange, by which point I'd already ordered a pair online) so I suppose I could try those once or twice and see if it helps but it's just a bit odd.

No, but my feet are 2 different sizes. I have a 4 and a 5! So I have to get them to fit the bigger foot, which then sometimes means the smaller foot needs an extra insole or very creative lacing. If your Brooks are faulty, their return policy is very good. You can return within 90 days even if worn and you just didn't get on with them. Might be worth getting a replacement pair to see, if you like the shoes otherwise?

 

[Into_the_tunnel]

Can I moan?

I just woke up feeling awful and have tested positive again. I have had 2 years of trying to get better after covid in March 2020 and although running was hard at the moment, I was enjoying it.

At least I don’t have to run in gifted trainers I found after cleaning my house.

 

[Rxt156]

HR on fitness watches can be wildy inaccurate. Especially when running, it can lock on to cadence and therefore give a hugely inaccurate reading.

 

[laughing]

Cadence - keeping your feet as near as possible to the ground when you run? Smaller strides? The more steps the better? Therefore hitting the ground with less power?
Is that correct?

 

[snapdrag0n]

Anyone ever had a pair of running shoes where one seemed to have a smaller toe box than the other? I've gone back to Brookes Adrenalines for my marathon at the end of May and whilst they are really lovely to run in, like they normally are, I am getting about 5 or 6 blisters after every run on my left toes. Sometimes during a run I get a stabbing pain in my left middle toe for a few strides. I've taken these shoes up to 16 miles and generally they're pain free 95% of the run so I'm not planning to change them but was just wondering if I'm being silly or it's something actually real lol. I've never had this problem with Brooks before and have run many miles in my last two pairs without a single blister.

I actually have a second brand new pair of the same model (had to return my Sauconys as they were too small and could only do an exchange, by which point I'd already ordered a pair online) so I suppose I could try those once or twice and see if it helps but it's just a bit odd.

Sometimes companies like to change something about the shoes between each version. Sometimes even a fabric change can cause big issues.
I’ve got hoka arahi at the moment and the 6 is coming up wider than the 5, have to pull them tight. It’s annoying because I find them super comfortable, even with this change. But if the laces loosen off I get a blister my 5s still have some life in them so I’ve kept them for longer runs and the 6s for my shorter ones for now. It’s a pain!