LGB Discussion #2

[Lollylaylow]

Well it came across that way, you said essentially “you don’t add anything positive to these threads” and me (factually) saying “more people like my posts in these threads than people do yours, so perhaps what you personally perceive as negativity from me is actually the current mood as to what most LGB people are feeling angry about, like I keep trying to explain to you, at least on this site anyway.

I could invite you to a forum, where if our posts were duplicated I'd get a lot more likes than you

DS, SD, Queerty, or somewhere else? Lol

nor would I expect you to fold and say "ah sorry Ensay you must be right after all".

Wtf are you talking about? Your opinion is yours, mine is mine, I already said a couple of times today and previously that it’s probably going to be unexpected that we’re going to disagree. You though put forward the accusatory jab that I’m against gay pride. Do you think I am in these threads just for the fun of it, or just something to do to pass the time? I don’t see you on many other threads so don’t know how you contribute or post elsewhere to the site, but most of my long posts on here (and now including this one I’m writing now) are either in the LGB or Gender Criticial threads because as a gay person both are important subjects to me.

Just because I don’t agree with YOU doesn’t mean I am anti gay pride. How dare you?? I know you’re as passionate as me about this from the opposite scale because of the same reason, even though the roads leading thereare different, but don’t try and make out This is negativity from me to homosexuality, it’s so far from it. And to reiterate, with the more likes and thumbs up thing.. with me having way more than you..maybe it’s you that needs to first review and reflect on your opinions and where they stand in the community before you lecture me about mine.

Anyway.

Here’s a video I found interesting.


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Nice post, especially the last paragraph. However passionate anyone is on here, it’s not right or wrong, just opinion.
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Edit: also, you may wanna just lay low lol but always interested in new members and their opinions @Lollylaylow we all don’t agree but all thoughts and comments are encouraged in this thread 🫠

My one-time thoughts on this as I am a lurker rather than a poster.

The gay community has an express train heading for them and most cannot see it because they are still basking in being top front and centre these last few years. It's made so many blind to that train coming up hidden behind all the rainbow flags.

It's not homophobia to want to protect children and women and anyone who cannot see what they are doing to the children and women surely has to be blind or maybe they just don't care and will just brush it off as homophobia.

The gay community has to step up and away from the trans BS that is going on because if they don't that train will hit them hard. If we cannot separate ourselves from the trans then we will go down with them but some are too busy picking out a twat calling someone a poof and just not seeing women being eradicated and confused children being mutilated. How people are not more angry is a puzzle because most of these children are probably LGB but are being told they are the wrong gender. Being gay isn't good enough anymore. How is that not making people angry?

Now back to lurking. Keep up the good fight

 

[HockyRorror]

That actually makes a lot of sense.
I thought the hate crime would be down in this day and age so was shocked to read it got higher.
Thank you for taking the time to give me your insight.

It’s things like this for me:

This is creepy. As a gay person, I would feel very uncomfortable walking down this street, not because it’s rainbow flags but just because there’s so many flags all apparently seemingly telling me what we should be supporting. It’s horrible. If these were replaced with the British or English flags, they would be cried out for racism

I’m gay. I don’t need or want anybody’s support in 2023 as a (ahem) 30 year old ) to be a gay man. I just am.

And I can just add to this post as well please: It’s not just “TRA’s” that are battling against us, as in random social media warriors, but the fact that these TRA’s have now worked their way into prominent positions in different roles and are actively working against us, silencing us and defaming us. They did it to lesbians and nobody seemed to give a shit (I did) and now doing it to us. We’ve had our websites, magazines, open forums (thank god for Tattle!!) taken over and hijacked and any dissent is quietened down or outright deleted.

Please Remind me: how is a man who is attracted to women, who likes having long hair and dressing in women’s clothes, and likes having sex with women connected in ANY WAY to the LGB community?

And if he’s connected via the LGBTQIA+ group, isn’t there a disconnected joint there? As that is a straight man attracted to a woman.

 

[rainbowlemon]

I hope you do come back and continue to post Rocky. None of the gay men I know, even seem to be aware of gender issues and how they affect vulnerable woman and girls.

I still believe the forced association with the trans folk has been very damaging and is undoing the rights and acceptance the LGB community has fought for.

 

[Metropolis]

I don’t think gay people living openly is pushing boundaries and it’s ridiculous and sad that LGB people should still have to live their lives looking over their shoulders worried that some nutter might attack them for it.

However, I think the aggressive pushing of boundaries @HockyRorror is referring to relates to the highjacking of LGB by TRAs shoving their agenda down everyone’s throat and openly berating anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the ideology. It just takes one person with a predisposition to violence and a hostility to LGB to flip about the incessant pushing of the ‘LGBTQIA+’ ideology (because they see that alphabet and read ‘gay people’ and can’t intellectually divorce LGB from the rest) and you have a homophobic attack. Except it’ll probably be reported as an attack on the LGBTQ community, thus reinforcing the perception that LGB are one and the same as the rest of the alphabet.

 

[hehehe]

Not sure I've read you right here but comments like this aren't helping the situation. Don't want to derail this thread but I'm shocked - on the gender thread here plus on sm in general, as well as comments in r-wing papers like the Mail, at the sheer scope & degree of trans intolerance.
Not saying that's you.

Or it could be that people have been pushed to the wall by intolerance being shown to them by so-called trans activists? Everything is a kneejerk reaction these days and it doesn't apply only to both sides of this issue. Why preach for tolerance on one side only?

As long as the individuals are not spreading hate speech or encouraging attacks on trans people (and fyi no one in the gender thread is), in the same way that the so-called activists are calling for women to be beheaded and raped for standing up for sex-segregated spaces and for lesbians to be cured by cock, then it's people simply giving their opinions as they have every right to, as you do too, whether it meets your measure of tolerance or not.

 

[Ensay]

First of all: Boooo! Why didn’t you do a rhyming thread title as per Tattle rules? Even off the top of my head right now I can think of: “Gay, Bisexual, or lesbian, dear? All these kinds are welcome here”. Do better @Ensay !


Also:

View attachment 2378521
C’mon gays, wtf are you playing at? We can beat these bi’s! We are even being beaten by the straights at the moment, this is unacceptable in the LGB thread!

Oh yeah I could have added a title. Oh well, maybe for the next one!

And yeah, we're even outnumbered by the straights here.

But I don't mind. I honestly don't have a problem with straight people. I've actually got straight friends. I don't necessarily approve of their lifestyle choice, but I respect them all the same!

 

[IngressUK]

Olivia Coleman, her who’s in everything, has “come out as a gay man”, btw. Its gone a full 360 from genuinely being endangered, being attacked, to slowly gaining acceptance and look here now, where we are, back to where we started, the word “queer” is not only accepted but used, in media, on TV, mostly by straight people to describe us, as @IngressUK pointed out, being actually same sex attracted exclusively now has the risk of the old days of being physically attacked…and at PRIDE of all places. And the likes of her are claiming something she absolutely isn’t and treating us as a joke. And the worst thing is, she knows. And would be the first person - because she’s that type of celeb - to insist “people don’t choose to be gay, they are born that way”. How do the two correlate?

Well - as a Gay man - I find Olivia Coleman's statement insulting and offensive. She has no clue what is like to be a gay man - especially when she is very clearly a straight woman.

But of course, I am not allowed to be offended if it Infringes on Trans and gender neutral beliefs - which rides roughshod over LGB and women's rights.

Fortunately there seems to be an increasing number of LGB who have had enough of T and Gender neutral nutters dictating the narrative.

 

[gisellejoly]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...uman-females-attend-popular-weekly-event.html

This company organises speed dating and other events for lesbian and gays. The organiser requested that only females attend their lesbian speed dating event as a male with an erection harassed a lesbian in the toilet at a previous event. She is now being investigated by the venue after transactivists complained. Hopefully they are not pushed underground and are able to find another venue, because gays and lesbians especially who don’t believe in this gender stuff do find it hard to meet like minded people nowadays. They have weekly events in London. https://lezbegay.co.uk/events/

 

[IngressUK]

My controversial take this morning is…

I’ve been over the progress flag for a while for various reasons. Hate the rainbow washing, everyone pushing the agenda for June etc etc. However, I saw an ad on instagram on Sunday night with people wearing the old rainbow flag in different ways (wristband, badge etc) and how it made us feel. They showed a couple holding hands, immediately dropping them before the taxi drew up, seeing a rainbow sticker on the taxi and then the relief washing over them. It just hit home how we still need that. We still drop our hands sometimes or refrain from appearing to be a couple. It also made it more meaningful because it was the rainbow flag, back when we started seeing each other (in the early 2000s), seeing those flags meant safety. The progress flag definitely doesn’t hold that same meaning.

There has been much discussion on the Gender Discussion thread recently, about this in general.

The flag and Pride celebrations lost all meaning when the 'alphabet soup' nonsense was forcefully added to it.

A whole load of 'hangers on' who felt they deserved respect, saw the LGB community as an easy target for achieving this.

We now have people who are not LGB at all, being celebrated in Pride month. For example, groups such as 'Furries', asexual, and straight LGB supporters - which have NOTHING to do with LGB.

So as far as im concerned, the whole thing has lost its purpose.

Anyone with an ounce of sense can see this is not about LGBT anymore, but lgbTQIA+. With the emphasis being on the T and the QIA+ part.

Anyone LGB who attempts to focus on LGB, is now regarded as some kind of 'bigot'.

If this is the attitude now, then I am happy to go it alone. There is no way I am going to participate in any events whereby I'm forced to agree with the growing alphabet soup nonsense.

Also just to be frank, I have no time for the radical Trans activists and their clueless supporters.

They are throwing an almighty strop over losing rights they never had to begin with. They seem to care for no one else but themselves in their conquest to make Trans supreme. That even includes throwing LGB people under the bus, in addition to biological women. You just have to see the abuse Lesbians receive from the Trans community to see this is true.

 

[oogling]

I’m a lesbian…I’m only attracted to women! I don’t like penises, I don’t like the smell of men, I don’t like the texture of mens skin or their hair. I like females, their skin, smell, hair, moods, life experience of going through this ficking world as a woman because I relate to it!

So if there is a human who is insisting they are a woman, if there is a penis attached to then I am not fucking interested! Testicles even more fucking so!!! And the violence and aggression FORCING me to be attracted to something I’m not…is NOT SOMETHING A FUCKING WOMAN DOES TO ANOTHER FUCKING WOMAN!!! Unfortunately that is a very common thing women face from men who get pissy when you tell them no!

I have never in my life been raped by a vagina, or gone through life fearing a vagina wearer! I have however been attacked by a human with a penis, and been scared shitless by many MANY penis owners because they felt that I should like their fucking penis! To MANY women, a penis is a fucking weapon that has been used against them and people they know! Why is this so difficult for these ‘new women’ to understand…oh that’s right…cos Theres a fucking penis attached! Chop that fucking thing off and I might take you slightly more seriously when you say you were born in the wrong body. I still won’t be attracted to you however, no still means fucking no!!!

 

[HockyRorror]

Well, that was for one event, true. But it's one event of many. Here's another time where they added all world flags for the Olympics:

View attachment 2408236

My point is that flags on Regent Street has long been a tradition. Additionally flags are flown annually for Remembrance Day and The Mall pretty much always has union flags on both sides of the street all year round.

I don't think Pride is disproportionate to any of that.

And I'm sorry but taking down all Pride flags forevermore (which seems to be what you're asking for) so as not to "push it in the faces" of people who don't like Pride flags is NOT the answer in my opinion.

If people are uncomfortable with gays, tough fucking shit. I detest this "let's appease the homophobes" attitude and I'm genuinely surprised at how many gay people seem happy with it.

I'm genuinely surprised at how many gay people seem happy with it.

Im equally as incredulously surprised at how many gay people seem happy to aim the rifle at their own face and seem happy to pull the trigger on not only themselves but their gay counterparts. Not surprised at all by the Q and T parts, but genuine LGB’s yes. I guess this is where we will keep disagreeing.

Also, your example isn’t really giving any rebuttal as to what I was saying. Your example, of The Olympics, held every four years, and happened to be held in London for the first time since the ‘60’s, (I believe?) is not the same as gay pride month (or two months, or three months, who knows these days…)

If you can show examples of flags annually, or routinely being displayed as prominent as the Stalin-like progressive pride flags are flung, then please post examples, I’ll be happy to concede if wrong.

 

[Metropolis]

There is an interesting (2016) study published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology that looked at the psychological function of flags and logos. The authors found that

…symbols not only helped groups make up for lacking a physical characteristic associated with entitativity (physical similarity), but also led groups to seem more threatening. Study 3 examined the processes underlying this effect and found that group symbols increase entitativity by increasing perceived cohesiveness. Study 4 extended our results to show that symbols not only shape the impressions people form of novel groups, but also change people's existing impressions of more familiar and real-world social groups, making them seem more entitative and competent but also less warm. Finally, Studies 5a and 5b further expand our understanding of the psychological function of symbols by showing that group members strategically display symbols when they are motivated to convey an impression of their group as unified and threatening (vs. inclusive and cooperative). (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27078507/)

Not really sure where I am going with this, but there has been a significant rise in LGB hate crime since 2013 and (taking into account the findings of the above study), I’m wondering whether there is a correlation with the aggressive pushing of the trans agenda that has taken place in a similar time frame (along with the prominent takeover of the traditional Pride flag with the progress one)? I personally don’t like seeing uniform displays of one type of flag (be that Pride or the Union Jack) hung en mass as it makes me feel uncomfortable; the various world flags for the Olympics had the opposite effect they can‘t be perceived as divisive.

Pride flags aren't compulsory. No one has to pledge their allegiance or support to gay people whenever they pass within a few feet of them

This is true, but (unlike the traditional flag), the progress flag is perceived as hostile by those LGB people and women who feel threatened by the T agenda. If I see a progress flag, I automatically think, “I can’t rely on this establishment to protect my right to single sex spaces”. I said a couple of months ago on the Gender Discussion thread that there is a cafe bar near me that hung a big traditional Pride flag behind the bar for June and that felt safe and welcoming. Since then, a TRA has joined the staff and now we have progress flags and ‘non binary’ flags adorning the bar. They will remain there all year. Why is that necessary?

 

[IngressUK]

So it is now seemingly acceptable for Trans to have their own standalone 'Trans Pride'.

Yet if LGB groups attempted to do the same, they would be branded bigoted, Transphobic and non inclusive.

Double standards I think!

How on earth LGB allowed itself to be overtaken by the radical T element is beyond me.

We now see LGB individuals being barred from attending events that are supposed to represent them, all because they don't agree with radical Trans policy and the Gender BS.

 

[HockyRorror]

Stop the hypocrisy, for a start.
This is where it falls apart for me. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If a UK based company supported Pride in other countries they'd get told to butt out. They'd get told it does more harm than good, like Matty Healy was told.

BUT if they just stick to supporting Pride in the UK they get criticised for "hypocrisy" and things like "yeah you'll support it in the UK, but you'll stay silent about gay rights abroad which is where it's really needed".

One of these days I'm gonna do a flowchart in Visio with all the different examples to show that, no matter what's done, it'll always end with some criticism.

Cool. That doesn’t explain though while “Pride Month” actually lasts 3 months now
I don't think it does. It still runs for the month of June. Individual towns and cities aren't compelled to hold Pride events during that month, though. Especially as there will often be pre existing events in June, so they have to move it to other weekends.

I do tut and shake my head when I see what goes on (in front of kids) at more recent prides.
Do you see that with your own eyes at all the many pride events around the country, or do you just see isolated events in the Daily Mail or watch it on the GB News channel? Both of whom will imply it happens at every single pride event 100% of the time? Come on, you can't really be taken in by their bias.

I will always fight for gay pride.
From all the things you say, I wish I could believe that. I don't really see you ever say anything positive.

Busy for now, but will leave this response to your bitchy comment here:


I will always fight for gay pride.
From all the things you say, I wish I could believe that. I don't really see you ever say anything positive.

But yet, the majority of people in this thread, and the last, whether they be LGB, or TQIA, or straight allies, have massively agreed with my posts over yours, if you look back collectively. You may not think I’m positive, but perhaps I’m more realistic in this current day and age and environment than you.

 

[HockyRorror]

To me that just means we've got a lot of negative people here, it doesn't change what I said. And I think that's true, because the site was set up to be catty about influencers, which is fine, but I think a lot of people come here to vent. Anyway, that's probably getting a bit off topic.

I don't think this thread is reflective of the community. I mean, the poll in the OP shows a little over 43% are straight. That's completely fine, I value straight allies as much as the next gay person, but I don't think they can truly understand the community, nor should they be expected to.

Oh. You think people are automatically negative when in disagreement with you, rather than engaging in thought as to whether your opinion is not the same as the majority (which is of course, fine, but when you dismiss the majority as negative for not thinking the same as you, it comes across a little off…)

You do you though. As I’m sure you will continue to do. I’ll probably swerve this thread for a week or bit, I’m getting annoyed by accusations.

 

[HockyRorror]

First of all: Boooo! Why didn’t you do a rhyming thread title as per Tattle rules? Even off the top of my head right now I can think of: “Gay, Bisexual, or lesbian, dear? All these kinds are welcome here”. Do better @Ensay !


Also:

C’mon gays, wtf are you playing at? We can beat these bi’s! We are even being beaten by the straights at the moment, this is unacceptable in the LGB thread!

 

[Ensay]

Had a tweet about a homophobic attack in Nottingham pop up on my timeline, presumably as I've tweeted about LGB issues previously.

I've put it behind a spoiler tag as it's quite a graphic photo, but one I'd like to show to any idiot who claims gay people have it fine in the UK these days.

Spoiler

 

[HockyRorror]

@HockyRorror
What? How?
See my previous post about how I feel seeing a rainbow sticker in a cafe window. And while I know a sticker and a crossing aren't the same thing, they're the same colour and hence inspire similar feelings in me. I feel like it's pointless to explain further because it's clear you get nothing from the rainbow symbol which is probably why you can't comprehend that some gay people do. Repeatedly asking me won't make my answer any more acceptable to you.

And as previously asked, what other individual group has been allowed to break UK law and cause unnecessary and dangerous risk to accommodate that group?
Is that not on the people that approved it, rather than those who requested it, though? I could understand your argument if some gay people had painted a zebra crossing in rainbow colours illegally overnight and then the council said "ah well, let them". This is something that was presumably requested and approved, so the blame should be on the approvers, yet it feels like the requesters get it in the neck.

definitely shorten it to a weekend like it was originally, rather than 2/3 months, also to give people to actually look forward to and celebrate it during a bank holiday
By weekend (singular) are you proposing it's only one weekend a year? I don't see how that could work because different cities like to hold Pride events on different months - eg Birmingham Pride is always on the Spring Bank Holiday weekend, Manchester Pride is on the August Bank Holiday weekend (now in fact!)

How do you propose the PR aspect is removed? Ban organisations from referring to it, even if they want to?

But I take some comfort from the fact that you don't want to completely stop it, as I'd always envisaged you tutting and shaking your idea at the idea of some gays having a bit of a laugh at Pride.

How do you propose the PR aspect is removed? Ban organisations from referring to it, even if they want to?

Stop the hypocrisy, for a start. When they bombard western customers with blasts of rainbows and proud and LOUD support of LGBT but the app colours on the other side of the world remain rainbowless. Maybe those Orgs could hire a Matt Healy to fly in and tell them all off.

See, also: stop blocking human rights campaigners from having bank accounts for saying humans can’t change sex, claiming it’s “abhorrent”, but at the same time holding an account for a literal child murderer.
Is that not on the people that approved it, rather than those who requested it, though?

Yes, the TQIA push., like I’ve been explaining. I’m not asking why there isn’t such a drive for many, many, many other different minorities, but why there is a singular supersonic push for this. And trying to patiently explain why a backlash is occurring.

By weekend (singular) are you proposing it's only one weekend a year? I don't see how that could work because different cities like to hold Pride events on different months - eg Birmingham Pride is always on the Spring Bank Holiday weekend, Manchester Pride is on the August Bank Holiday weekend (now in fact!)

Cool. That doesn’t explain though while “Pride Month” actually lasts 3 months now

But I take some comfort from the fact that you don't want to completely stop it, as I'd always envisaged you tutting and shaking your idea at the idea of some gays having a bit of a laugh at Pride.

Half right. I do tut and shake my head when I see what goes on (in front of kids) at more recent prides.
I will always fight for gay pride. But, please, can gay pride just go back to being about GAY people? We do not need TQAI or allies to strengthen numbers, come if you want to support but it’s just about gay and lesbians please

 

[Nelly's mum]

I’m a lesbian…I’m only attracted to women! I don’t like penises, I don’t like the smell of men, I don’t like the texture of mens skin or their hair. I like females, their skin, smell, hair, moods, life experience of going through this ficking world as a woman because I relate to it!

So if there is a human who is insisting they are a woman, if there is a penis attached to then I am not fucking interested! Testicles even more fucking so!!! And the violence and aggression FORCING me to be attracted to something I’m not…is NOT SOMETHING A FUCKING WOMAN DOES TO ANOTHER FUCKING WOMAN!!! Unfortunately that is a very common thing women face from men who get pissy when you tell them no!

I have never in my life been raped by a vagina, or gone through life fearing a vagina wearer! I have however been attacked by a human with a penis, and been scared shitless by many MANY penis owners because they felt that I should like their fucking penis! To MANY women, a penis is a fucking weapon that has been used against them and people they know! Why is this so difficult for these ‘new women’ to understand…oh that’s right…cos Theres a fucking penis attached! Chop that fucking thing off and I might take you slightly more seriously when you say you were born in the wrong body. I still won’t be attracted to you however, no still means fucking no!!!

A man is still a man with or without his penis. He certainly isn't a woman.

 

[zetta buttons]

I think pride (what it was, not what it has turned into) is still important. I completely understand that what goes on between couples is private but when that activity was (and still is) deemed illegal, it should be celebrated that we have come so far.

When I first met my wife and we were teaching, section 28 was still applicable. When we had our civil partnership in 2009, our pension rights were not the same as heterosexual couples and there was a loophole that was only rectified later. People think we are celebrating what we do in the bedroom, but it’s so much more. It’s also not taking any rights from anyone else. Once we got the ability to have civil partnerships, so did heterosexual couples. It was all about equality.

I’m sad that Stonewall lost its way, I’m sad that Pride has lost its way. I’m hopeful that our community will be able to come together again because it feels lost.