Kylie Flavell #4 Purloining the Patreon Purse

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What does she say about the art, Jerry. This is the area where I am likely to be most critical and most pissed off!
So here you have KyLIE’s well considered Theory of Art and Design, all condensed into seven slides, encompassing all history of human visual expression.

It can be summarized by one phrase or admonition, which she may have, unfortunately, heard as a child,

“Stay within the lines !”


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Btw Swindon is a very busy place - I would see him more as Tunbridge Wells. On the topic of towns, @PlinyinTorquay, Kingston must have evolved since I lived there and Bentalls was king -
@Spirit I haven't been to Kingston-on-Thames for ages. I imagine the bondage shop is long gone. I remember that going to the cafe in Bentalls for a banana split back in the day was the height of social splendour! 🤣

So here you have KyLIE’s well considered Theory of Art and Design, all condensed into seven slides, encompassing all history of human visual expression.

It can be summarized by one phrase or admonition, which she may have, unfortunately, heard as a child,

“Stay within the lines !”


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@Jerry thank you for this. Did she really produce these slides. All I can say, for the moment is, oh dear!

Lol. Now is in in virtually every video and they're like a Couple's Vlog channel,
Maybe they'll buy matching reindeer sweaters for Christmas. Like Colin Firth in Bridget Jones's Diary! 🤣



@PlinyinTorquay @Denise0211 @emm @Jerry KyLie’s explanation of “classical” art versus “contemporary” art would badly fail a Visual Arts 101 essay 🙄 She has, unfortunately, taken on our comments about not including art/architecture/culture in her vlogs and made an awful mash up of art history and theory which only highlights her ignorance. We all expected something like this and by setting herself up as a kind of “authority” it makes it even more dismal.

Anyway, the discussion of art soon falls away into a strange mish mash of a piano player in an empty palazzo, an awkward “interview”, a lunch, Guido bringing his accountant’s expertise to the cost of renovating the theatre (the energy drained away with his flat estimation of 100k) and her lounging on a sofa reading the Polish soldier’s diary during the war (wearing glasses to make her look more serious and she’s got the heavy filters on after the chicken dinner flog)....All very disjointed and, professionally speaking, not well done at all 🙈

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@Alessandro. Thank you so much for this. I will try and bring myself to watch it in due course. I imagine there are the usual flurries of compliments from K's fans.

@Jerry, although my specialist area is 18-C Venetian art, her view from those slides is not very nuanced and ill-considered. One has to appreciate each artwork and style for its own merit and in its own context. For instance, despite my personal preferences, I was dazzled by Damien Hirst's Cherry Blossoms which opened at the Fondation Cartier pour l'art contemporain while I was in Paris.

 
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This woman is empty as a drum, she has no authority over anything because she is no expert in anything. These are her blunt and ignorant opinions at best and it comes off foolish. She basically makes a fool of herself anytime she tries to explain something or lecture about anything related to knowledge and depth really. Next on K’s show I’m expecting her to start talking about buildings, design and her views on architecture. What a laugh that will be. Can’t wait for the idiotic comments. She is so far out of touch, the audacity she has to present herself as some guru when her opinions are of a either a child or an ignorant, poorly educated and dogmatic person.
 
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For instance, despite my personal preferences, I was dazzled by Damien Hirst's Cherry Blossoms which opened at the Fondation Cartier pour l'art contemporain while I was in Paris.
Reminds me of Seurat’s pointillism as well as Monet’s lily pads, even Pollack’s drip paintings.

It’s true, each work must be appreciated on its own.
 
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Also a question for the italians in the group (or anyone who has an idea) why do the family who own this theatre not make money by opening it to the public? I think it is pretty standard for once mega rich families who own such properties in the UK
@emm is it the theatre specifically or the palazzo in general? I tried to continue watching but, again, the 2 languages annoys me to no end. Her faux Audrey Hepburnesque in Eng and wannabe Tuscan.

The palazzo as I have seen is open to the public, complete with guided tours, which don't usually come cheap. What is the issue with money?

Thanks to anyone who sacrificed themselves watching!😂
 
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@emm is it the theatre specifically or the palazzo in general? I tried to continue watching but, again, the 2 languages annoys me to no end. Her faux Audrey Hepburnesque in Eng and wannabe Tuscan.

The palazzo as I have seen is open to the public, complete with guided tours, which don't usually come cheap. What is the issue with money?

Thanks to anyone who sacrificed themselves watching!😂
I don't understand why people compare Kylie - voice or anything - in any way to Audrey. Her fans when they do it are just massaging her ego.



I thought I’d share with you this photograph of Audrey that I have on my apartment wall in Doha. Mine is an artist’s proof by Terry O’Neill taken when Audrey was Filming, Two for the Road with Albert Finney in San Tropez in 1967. The dove apparently landed on Audrey’s shoulder and O’Neill was there to capture the moment. 💕

 
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I don't understand why people compare Kylie - voice or anything - in any way to Audrey. Her fans when they do it are just massaging her ego.



I thought I’d share with you this photograph of Audrey that I have on my apartment wall in Doha. Mine is an artist’s proof by Terry O’Neill taken when Audrey was Filming, Two for the Road with Albert Finney in San Tropez in 1967. The dove apparently landed on Audrey’s shoulder and O’Neill was there to capture the moment. 💕

I think bc it seems that is what she aspires to lol.

Her fans don't seem to notice, only a few who say "Oh you are Australian? The accent is different!" or "Your sister has a different accent." 😂
 
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I don't understand why people compare Kylie - voice or anything - in any way to Audrey. Her fans when they do it are just massaging her ego.



I thought I’d share with you this photograph of Audrey that I have on my apartment wall in Doha. Mine is an artist’s proof by Terry O’Neill taken when Audrey was Filming, Two for the Road with Albert Finney in San Tropez in 1967. The dove apparently landed on Audrey’s shoulder and O’Neill was there to capture the moment. 💕

Aa a huge Audrey fan I completely agree! No one should dare to compare themselves to her as no one comes even close to her grace and elegance ♥
 
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Aa a huge Audrey fan I completely agree! No one should dare to compare themselves to her as no one comes even close to her grace and elegance ♥
It's funny bc Kylie doesn't strike me as graceful or elegant. She seems so hulk-ish, not sure how to put into words. Despite her wanting to seem refined or someone who knows her forks (lol) I see her slamming a beach volleyball in someone's face, but taunting them in Italian. 🙈

Also, I used to visit Maine as a child and this accent is sadly waning, but I adore it. Kylie would neva'!! 🙄

 
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unfortunately, taken on our comments about not including art/architecture/culture in her vlogs and made an awful mash up of art history and theory which only highlights her ignorance.
This is something I have become aware of over a period of time and really exposes her lack of a structured formal education. A classic case Kylie skips across the surface of art, the arts, for the effect affords. Kylie plays about with the effects, ‘smoke and mirrors‘🪞 filters and props.
Without having viewed the latest bit of video lint, I venture to suggest the theatre is a place ( backdrop/prop) where she could pan across the features of it, capture some nicely lit moments and pick out some props …a chaise, a piano, glasses and a diary. 📕 Little props that present as “culture” , the kind you might use in a 30 seconds ( Rouje dress ad) tv commercial or toob flog in order to suck in the real money grab . As said I have yet to watch the thing . I wonder if she uses these flogs to leverage work for herself making in house clips for hotels etc ? I don’t know when I’ll watch it I’m not sure I want to take on the irritation it will no doubt cause me and ruin my Sunday

I was dazzled by Damien Hirst's Cherry Blossoms which opened at the Fondation Cartier pour l'art
DH is a master at the ol razzle dazzle
 
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Also, I used to visit Maine as a child and this accent is sadly waning, but I adore it. Kylie would neva'!!
I visted Bar Harbour as a teen and the first thing I did was buy a lobster and cook it on the beach.

I’ve been back since; Portland, Rockland, Kenneybunk, Samoset, Ogunquit, Kittery
 
Wow the first few minutes of this latest Tuscan jaunt must have really hit a nerve for me as even though I have woken to a most beautiful sunny Winter morning here on the Mornington Peninsula, I feel an internal rage which I am struggling to suppress let alone articulate! I am somewhat embarrassed that she has had such an effect on me. The lies and embellishments I can handle because I am so used to them, it's what she does, but assuming the role as an art expert/informed commentator really grates. And once again her fawners will just lap it up, let it go unchecked, encourage/beg her for more. Oh Kylie is there anything that you don't know, can't do?

However to my relief I found Brian's comment, so beautifully wrapped in Florentine paper that she may just let it remain, or, though I strongly doubt it, may even respond. I'm really digging that last sentence. Thanks Brian, I think I shall go for a long mind clearing coastal walk now.🐬

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Wow! I have been avoiding this, Rina, for the very reason you describe and because I’m a little preoccupied at the moment. I might pop on and give Brian a like. I might also watch it, with a soothing camomile tea. I am also very glad that one of Kylie’s devotees has done this, as opposed to paying lip service regardless.
 
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Now am now downright agitated at the prospect of viewing the scourge ….it’ll be a weakness to watch it now, I’ve been warned. Can I resist, probably not because I agree she must be challenged .
 
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Okay, well, I need to take my mind off something this morning, so inspired by Rina's post, I took a look at the video. One of the problems with K. is that she is the queen of the 'sweeping statement'. She needs to give more thought to what she is saying as her words can be too quickly unpacked and found to be superficial. For instance, her sweeping comparisons between old a new: "the religious melodrama in a society that attends mass maybe once a year" and "Ballrooms in an era where ball gowns have been diminished to a polyester imitation' are two examples. I am sure that there are countless devout people in this world whose faith is still of utmost importance to them. Indeed, life pre-Covid would have witnessed many upscale parties and balls where people are carefully and exquisitely dressed. Kylie need look no further than Guido, who, if you consult the list in the following link, partnered Countess Costanza della Gherardesca, who was wearing couture to a ball. https://www.lebal.paris/en/editions/le-bal-2003/ . These events still exist if you move in certain circles and know where to look.

Kylie often rhetorically raises philosophical questions which she does not adequately address.

The theatre is pretty, and Guido makes a few valid comments. On the whole, the Pal. Sergardi is charming enough, though it clearly needs restoration. I would not venture to comment on its historical importance to attract state restoration funding. I imagine it is a lovely project for an individual wealthy and passionate enough to restore the building and its interiors to its former grandeur. The way Kylie waxes lyrical as she walks around the rooms reveals that she maybe hasn't been exposed to truly great art or has not learned to differentiate between great art and competent workmanship. She could have mentioned the name of the artist who decorated the building, Luigi Ademollo (1764-1849)
https://paoloantonacci.com/artists/30-luigi-ademollo/biography/ . Ademollo also has a brief Wiki entry.

Again, as we all know, Kylie likes her love stories, which I guess reflects her life phase.

Her comments about making friends or forming relationships in a historic city are nonsense. It is challenging anywhere.

Her reading from the book, A Soldier at War, with the English subtitles, felt a little clunky and unnecessarily long. This is where she makes parallels with some of her followers. I believe Kylie has a fair amount of elderly fans who have sent her pictures of themselves in their younger days. It is likely that some are military veterans and have shared with her, in letters, stories of their lives in active service.

As you know, I have wondered at times whether we overestimate the extent to which we imagine Kylie cares about our thread. But I also thought that maybe the following excerpt, which she read from A Soldier at War, was pointedly intended for us. Or perhaps it is my own conscience pricking me:

"People are strange … I observe them a great deal as I do with the majority of people with whom I come into contact, and I have the impression that their greatest pleasure is to be able to deride someone, have fun at their expense without considering for a moment the possibility that it hurts him. And then if they do realise, they're happy having achieved this. It's such low and wretched behaviour, totally devoid of sensitivity."

All in all, it is a superficial piece but probably similar to the type of journalism Kylie produced for the Casino magazine that @Antonio has mentioned, or the sort of article you'd find in an in-flight magazine. Lightweight vignettes peppered with rhetorical questions which sound deeper than they really are.
 
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For instance, her sweeping comparisons between old a new: "the religious melodrama in a society that attends mass maybe once a year" and "Ballrooms in an era where ball gowns have been diminished to a polyester imitation' are two examples.
I don’t usually go to church, except for the architecture and sense of history and spirituality, although am familiar with the rituals, but will go in to light a candle, even though I’m not Catholic. I have challenged religion in general, but find it completely offensive that she so generally both dismisses the “melodrama” while at the same time, seems to chastise society for observing these rituals only once a year. Which is it ?!


"Ballrooms in an era where ball gowns have been diminished to a polyester imitation'
I took this to mean a surface reference to the series Brigerton, where history is incidental and gowns are polyester imitations.

Her reading from the book, A Soldier at War, with the English subtitles, felt a little clunky and unnecessarily long. This is where she makes parallels with some of her followers.
I thought she was referencing messages from her fawners who share their life issues and sentiments with her, making a shallow comparison. I think she is setting herself up to be both victim and guru.

and I have the impression that their greatest pleasure is to be able to deride someone,
I had the same fleeting thought, that this was “intended for us”. I just as quickly let it go, because a faker, phoney con does not deserve to be taken seriously and she cynically uses art and culture, and this book, as a shield to deflect thoughtful comment and criticism. Again, she likes to play victim and guru. If we can have fun exposing the charade, all the better.
 
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Hello Jerry, I usually visit churches from professional reasons. Though I do light a candle for my late husband who was RC and trained as a priest before deciding the vocation was not for him. Per photo in St Rita’s chapel at the Abbey of St Germain des Pres attached.

I haven’t heard of BriReference would be lost on me.

I really think the soldiers thing might be a reference to some old chaps in their dotage who are fond of Kylie and send photos in their army uniforms etc.

I enjoy chatting on this thread as we are an interesting group and I feel I have things in common with some fellow contributors. However I don’t want to be too cruel.

Sorry if last message was inarticulate and full of errors. It was typed on my iPhone. Never a good idea.
 

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Thank heavens I’m not as outraged as I thought I might be , I feel relieved I know the difference between a a fresco and a masterful mind blowing fresco. Where once I may have been envious of such an experience , I care less and less about Kylies attempts to present her life as extraordinary in order to elevate her rather superficial “feelings” and glib observations . I would be more interested talking to the woman conducting the restoration work.
I would say Guido and Koils are on some sort of research trip to see how they can squeeze some dollars out of unsuspecting folks in their own business ventures .
Count one lip bite, one too loud hysterical laugh, two dress advertisements and one possible spectacles advert . Not that amazing nor interesting and not a really a Private Palazzo is it. ? More partial truths , by private I would be expecting something someone still lives in and is not available for rent .
 
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Regarding modern art, for years I searched for modern galleries while travelling in Italy. I found so few.

Once it was explained to me that Italians feel they’ve already done it all with a surfeit of classical images, paintings, frescoes, that there’s little interest in doing the modern.

I don’t know that this is a satisfactory answer, but it’s what I go with. I don’t even look anymore.

There is a museum of contemporary art in Rome and I’ve been to Milan only once before, so maybe I’m missing it there, I don’t know.

I have been to the Venice Biennale and discovered some interesting outdoor art installations in Reggio Calabria. I did discover a barnfull of work at the Burri Collection in Citta di Castello. I was tipped off about an opening of modern art in Siracusa, which I enjoyed. Have also visited the Peggy Guggenheim Collection in Venice.

Just don’t see galleries on the street.

It occurs to me that, perhaps, modern art is equated with the Fascist period, when one looks at the architecture at the time, or even suppressed during those years, would be interested to learn.

Doesn’t make entire sense to me, given Italy’s reputation and flair for fashion and design.

Anyway, can’t find it, may be looking in all the wrong places. Suffice to say, in the spirit of appreciating art on the basis of each work and on its own terms, much as we do music, I do like the freshness, innovation and free expression of modern art, often prefer it to the “church” art that is so prevalent, while realizing that there is a common thread.

One of my favourite artists is Masaccio and his work found in the Brancacci Chapel of the Chiesa di Santa Maria del Carmine in Florence.
 
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Hi @Jerry,

When in Rome, which seems like forever ago, I always visit MAXXI and MACRO. The Palazzo delle Esposizioni and the Chiostro del Bramante house contemporary exhibitions and the Fendi headquarters in the The Palazzo della Civiltà Italiana in the EUR district has a gallery space on the ground floor. Giustini Stagetti shows a collection of mid century Italian and contemporary design and is definitely worth checking out. Gagosian also has a gallery in Rome. There are actually quite a few smaller contemporary galleries in Rome but not sure how Covid has affected their existence.
In Milan please visit the Fondazione Prada and the Pirelli HangarBicocca. The Anselm Kiefer permanent exhibition at Pirelli is 👌.
Close to Turin is the Castello di Rivoli.
And if I lived in Italy I would never miss the Venice Biennale. Apart from the international pavilions in the giardini and arsenale, lots of palazzi around Venice (not usually open to the public) are used as exhibition spaces. OMG it is just the best time! I really miss Italy.

I realise you didn't ask for this list but you just got me thinking about the good times and travel and I couldn't help myself!
 
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