I unwatched the thread. What has given me hope is that I did get a good few likes so it seems a lot of people are in agreement.
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same here, I also did find it somewhat encouraging that my point was somewhat considered by the person I quoted. Usually I'd expect someone to shout transphobe and move on.
The etymology of the word "woman" is literally womb - man. Man with womb.
Sorry if that was obvious given JKR's tweet, but just needed to air that.
Sorry if that was obvious given JKR's tweet, but just needed to air that.
Someone posted this on that Gabby thread
It does because women are needed for research and it halts access to care too.
Using inclusive language is great but not when it prevents access to the care from people who aren’t educated above a certain level, who have learning difficulties, who have English as a second language, who are prevented by males in the home/in abusing situations, who have no idea about the political ways language is changing. Not everyone is hyper aware of the evolution of language regards trans/non binary as not everyone has access to the internet where most of the conversation is happening.
This then becomes a socioeconomic problem too and means health care then starts preventing or scaring women away from sex specific care because they don’t have the internet, aren’t on Twitter or don’t read The Guardian.
Many women, for instance (if we extrapolate here to cervical screening) don’t know what a cervix is, nor that they have one and yes that’s sad, and yes there should be better education. But that is centuries down the line because of course woman are deep root shamed about their bodies and we are still seen as dirty and shameful by many. Education, healthcare and society will need centuries to evolve and move away from the Abrahamic degradation of the female sex before every woman is aware that she has a cervix, what it is, and what it does - let alone further details about the female body.
If “woman” becomes replaced by “cervix havers” and similar, as it has in many trusts, then it rather precludes women from taking part in research or having appropriate screening, testing and help.
Edited to add: It should go without saying that TM and NB people should of course receive all the help they need and should be sign posted appropriately. There needs to be an overhaul in the way trans people are dealt with in medical care. But sadly, knowing how long it takes for women to be seen as something other that “other” in medical care, I can’t see it happening in any useful way in my lifetime.
Just changing medical and patient literature to exclude/dilute the world “woman” from a primarily female or solely female health problem is unhelpful and causes more issues than it solves. It see why it is done, I see the insistence of people to say “we must include trans people too” and that it is helpful in other areas but the rather bullish ways non-medical people have tried to apply it to medical settings is very, very unhelpful.
It does because women are needed for research and it halts access to care too.
Using inclusive language is great but not when it prevents access to the care from people who aren’t educated above a certain level, who have learning difficulties, who have English as a second language, who are prevented by males in the home/in abusing situations, who have no idea about the political ways language is changing. Not everyone is hyper aware of the evolution of language regards trans/non binary as not everyone has access to the internet where most of the conversation is happening.
This then becomes a socioeconomic problem too and means health care then starts preventing or scaring women away from sex specific care because they don’t have the internet, aren’t on Twitter or don’t read The Guardian.
Many women, for instance (if we extrapolate here to cervical screening) don’t know what a cervix is, nor that they have one and yes that’s sad, and yes there should be better education. But that is centuries down the line because of course woman are deep root shamed about their bodies and we are still seen as dirty and shameful by many. Education, healthcare and society will need centuries to evolve and move away from the Abrahamic degradation of the female sex before every woman is aware that she has a cervix, what it is, and what it does - let alone further details about the female body.
If “woman” becomes replaced by “cervix havers” and similar, as it has in many trusts, then it rather precludes women from taking part in research or having appropriate screening, testing and help.
Edited to add: It should go without saying that TM and NB people should of course receive all the help they need and should be sign posted appropriately. There needs to be an overhaul in the way trans people are dealt with in medical care. But sadly, knowing how long it takes for women to be seen as something other that “other” in medical care, I can’t see it happening in any useful way in my lifetime.
Just changing medical and patient literature to exclude/dilute the world “woman” from a primarily female or solely female health problem is unhelpful and causes more issues than it solves. It see why it is done, I see the insistence of people to say “we must include trans people too” and that it is helpful in other areas but the rather bullish ways non-medical people have tried to apply it to medical settings is very, very unhelpful.
This is so so well put and respectfull. kudos to that user.
They need to come over here and join us
Ugh it’s annoying when people say things on other threads as if they assume everyone also thinks JK is awful or TWAW etc. Then if you respond you’re the terf 
(and in my case recently I had a comment defending JK deleted for being off topic while two others with the different viewpoint remained...normally I like the level of moderating here but I did side eye that)
(and in my case recently I had a comment defending JK deleted for being off topic while two others with the different viewpoint remained...normally I like the level of moderating here but I did side eye that)This is why we need to push back on this nonsense at every opportunity. The amount of likes I got is heartening, it proves to me that a lot of people feel the same as us
same here, I think it also says something to people when you see others respectfully explaining themselves and being insulted right off the bat.
So true
I really think that the world has gone mad. Of course endo is something only a biological woman can suffer. Are we now going to say that prostate cancer is non-gender specific too? Seems ok to bash everything actual biological women suffer from but there is no equivalent against biologically male issues. I apologise if I have offended anyone with my thoughts. <Goes back to looking at adopting a donkey... 
>
>It's utterly, utterly ridiculous. It still blows my mind that women can get called names for objecting to the erasure of the word woman.I really think that the world has gone mad. Of course endo is something only a biological woman can suffer. Are we now going to say that prostate cancer is non-gender specific too? Seems ok to bash everything actual biological women suffer from but there is no equivalent against biologically male issues. I apologise if I have offended anyone with my thoughts. <Goes back to looking at adopting a donkey...
We need to talk about Ellen Page
I’m sorry, but a woman cannot just click her fingers and become a ‘he’.
www.spiked-online.com
'How can someone who doesn’t have male biology and who has had no male experiences – boyhood, male puberty, masculine impulses, being a brother, an uncle, a father – be a ‘he’? How does that work? Is it magic? Or have words like male, he, brother and father been so denuded of meaning thanks to the cult of genderfluidity that anyone can adopt them as their preferred identity? It is not prejudiced to ask these questions; it is reasonable, and important.'
again, why do they rage against that rather then concentrate their ire against violent men who make life so dangerous?
hmmm indeed, more men need to question this publicly because more men getting uncomfortable with self-ID and erasure of sex it will likely mean they will help push back for women too. Sadly, society is geared towards listening to men more, so it might bring debate back into the picture if more men speak up? Just my thoughts. At the moment, it seems the issue passes a lot of men by until it upsets them personally, like this journalist. Women are told to stop being transphobic about it at the moment. Would love to see shaving companies attempt to change their product designs to say "razors for penis havers". THAT would wake a few people up to the ridiculousness of it and you bet that it would be up for debate and they'd be listened to! FYI, I like most men, so I'm not a man hater at all, I just notice that they have more sway in politics.Apologies if this has been posted before but at least we now have a male journalist objecting to the fact that a woman can just say that she is male. We need more of this.We need to talk about Ellen Page
I’m sorry, but a woman cannot just click her fingers and become a ‘he’.
'How can someone who doesn’t have male biology and who has had no male experiences – boyhood, male puberty, masculine impulses, being a brother, an uncle, a father – be a ‘he’? How does that work? Is it magic? Or have words like male, he, brother and father been so denuded of meaning thanks to the cult of genderfluidity that anyone can adopt them as their preferred identity? It is not prejudiced to ask these questions; it is reasonable, and important.'
Will also be interesting to see if the journalist gets cancelled for his view...
I totally agree with you. Most men seem to be oblivious to what's going on at the moment. I've been trying to explain to my husband but he seems to be under the impression that it's just 'a few random nutters' who think they can change sex anytime they like. That's why I was pleased to see the Spiked article, we need more men to get on board as (unfortunately) they still get listened to more than women.hmmm indeed, more men need to question this publicly because more men getting uncomfortable with self-ID and erasure of sex it will likely mean they will help push back for women too. Sadly, society is geared towards listening to men more, so it might bring debate back into the picture if more men speak up? Just my thoughts. At the moment, it seems the issue passes a lot of men by until it upsets them personally, like this journalist. Women are told to stop being transphobic about it at the moment. Would love to see shaving companies attempt to change their product designs to say "razors for penis havers". THAT would wake a few people up to the ridiculousness of it and you bet that it would be up for debate and they'd be listened to! FYI, I like most men, so I'm not a man hater at all, I just notice that they have more sway in politics.
Will also be interesting to see if the journalist gets cancelled for his view...
I know what you mean. I also wonder whether laws have been drawn-up for this lunacy. Imagine a woman identifying as a man is has anal sex with a man then decides it was non-consensual. Does the defendant have to have sought consent from a woman and a man? Or is the woman who identified as a man at the time of rape gonna scream I'm a woman although they consented as a man. I can't see anyway to present a law in a way that works.
It's one thing to respect Page's wish to be known by a new name, referred to as "he", live in a "masculine" social role and play male characters, etc. It's another to pretend that she is and has always been male - not least because she became well known for playing a pregnant teenage girl. Along similar lines, I don't know why but recently I've seen a lot of criticism on social media of people not referring to Eddie Izzard as "she" and a "woman"Apologies if this has been posted before but at least we now have a male journalist objecting to the fact that a woman can just say that she is male. We need more of this.We need to talk about Ellen Page
I’m sorry, but a woman cannot just click her fingers and become a ‘he’.
'How can someone who doesn’t have male biology and who has had no male experiences – boyhood, male puberty, masculine impulses, being a brother, an uncle, a father – be a ‘he’? How does that work? Is it magic? Or have words like male, he, brother and father been so denuded of meaning thanks to the cult of genderfluidity that anyone can adopt them as their preferred identity? It is not prejudiced to ask these questions; it is reasonable, and important.'
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