Gender Discussion #28

[judgejohndeed]

Oh we’ve got the full house now:
1. ‘You just don’t understand’ - yep, I do understand, I just disagree
2. ‘You’re not a doctor’ - nope, but you really don’t need to be a doctor to see what’s going on here, and gender ideology isn’t medicine
3. ‘You haven’t even met a trans person’ - yes I have, I have colleagues who have fully transitioned. I’m not ‘scared’ of trans people or phobic of them.

Not sure what the reference to ‘growing up with gay friends’ was about, so did I, I fully support all gay rights. Gay people are also losing the right to be same sex attracted with this trans nonsense.

 

[Cassandra333]

The fact you think we "don't understand" seems like sheer arrogance on your part, although you do seem very young so perhaps it's that.

I'm from Manchester

It's not just arrogance, it's patronising crap. I bet any money that I was marching for gay rights before that idiot was born. I started in the late 1970's. I've always had gay friends. I've also had transwomen friends. But they were very aware that they're not women. They knew they were men.

No one is trying to stop transwomen from existing and it's just that sort of claim which disgusts us. We're happy for them to exist, good luck to them. What we're out to stop is them describing themselves as females. Because they're not.

We have rights too.

 

[PastryPolly]

The majority seem to be against trans people existing

Nope, I fully support people living their life however they wish, but not at the expense of women and girls legal rights to safe spaces, designed for them only.
Why can't trans people advocate for their own spaces? Why should we have to pander to their delusions and make room for them? It's got nothing to do with us.
If Stanley decides that he's a woman and wants to call himself Barbara and wants to wear frilly dresses and make up then more power to him, live your life, BUT I will not be suspending my belief in reality and refer to him as a she and think it's OK for him to barge his way into womens spaces and tell ME what being a woman and feeling like a woman is. The arrogance!

 

[nothanksbabes]

I'll also add, nobody here is mindlessly making fun of people for being different, we're simply stating facts, mainly that:

- Men commit ~98% of violent and sex offences and this doesn't change when they "identify" as women

- Women and children are often the victims and this is why we have safeguarding and single sex spaces

- Women don't have to change our language or accommodate any man just because they say we should.

As someone who has been in an abusive relationship with a man, a lot of trans rhetoric reflects an abuse dynamic, for example - suicide threats, saying stuff like, "you wish I didn't exist" when a reasonable boundary is set, DARVO, inability to take any criticism and threats of/actual violence when you don't concede. I've heard it all before and it's not gonna wash now.

 

[soph30]

Like, I don’t have a problem with REAL trans women saying they’re females (although they’re not quite the same) but not every second bloody person is trans, it’s like 0.1% of the whole world in reality- half of these new trans people are just attention seeking

 

[Cassandra333]

What's a 'real transwoman' because they're certainly not female. They will always be male.

Female is not an inclusive club. We're exclusive of males.

 

[kittenattack]

Nowhere else in society are individuals required to believe someone else's delusion.

It's not the bloody 15th century where the Catholics could torture you for refusal to believe in their god

We have freedom of thought, belief and expression in this world. Nobody can compel someone else to believe a delusion - even a mass delusion. Nobody.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I also find 'you don't believe trans people exist' thing really weird. I completely believe there are mentally ill individuals who feel they're in the wrong body. Do I believe a transwoman is female - no, if he was female, he wouldn't need to transition.

 

[Apple In My Pie]

I'm not against trans people existing either. I have a trans friend (FtM) and he's great. I wouldn't want him to be abused or excluded because he's trans. I don't believe the rights of one group of people should trump the rights of others though, especially when this comes down to ideas such as self-identifying to get into an area (e.g. changing room, loo), muddying language in the name of inclusivity when it excludes rather than includes (phrases such as cervix haver, chest feeder, to refer to women, which excludes those who have English as a second language or those with learning disabilities who need plain language not word salad), and the fact that this whole movement is reliant on outdated harmful gender stereotypes (children who 'feel like a girl' such as Jazz Jennings were boys who liked dresses and Barbies) and could lead vulnerable teenagers down irreversible paths because the whole movement (medical wise) seems to be 'affirm this person's gender immediately bigot', rather than looking at a root cause which could relate gender discomfort to mental unwellness or underlying disabilities such as autism.

You don't need to be a medical professional to see this for what it is. I am just a bog standard woman. (How dull, these days!) But I see.

 

[Cack Conroe]

That’s the standard pattern: say something vaguely GC, get roasted by TRAs, apologise, continue to receive hateful threats, realise nothing short of complete capitulation and prostration will ever be good enough, decide ‘be kind’ can get in the bin, go full JKR.

Macy Grey’s GC comment -> piled-on by TRAs -> backpedal -> still piled-on -> full terf is surely the quickest public peaking cycle ever

 

[Cassandra333]

Can people sign this please? (You have to be British)

Petition: Remove references to 'gender identity' from relationships education guidance

Since 2020 the DfE has published guidance for relationships and sex education. This says "Pupils should be taught the facts and the law about sex, sexuality, sexual health and gender identity in an age-appropriate and inclusive way". Gender identity is a social construct, and not recognised in law.

petition.parliament.uk

 

[GladiatorReady]

Good point ! No I think this topic is great to have but the majority seem to be against trans people existing - not gonna get into that, your views are your own business.

I guess I'm wondering how you all ended up with these views ? Having a trans cousin and close friends who are gay I grew up knowing about everythingg. Did none of you have trans friends or anything ?

It is deffo much more common now. My aunt who is in endocrinology told me over 34% of her patients regret or don't go ahead with the physical side which is LOT.

I'm a lesbian. I grew up with a homophobic family in a tiny rural village during Section 28 and I absolutely detested myself until I finally came out in my early 30s (shortly before the pandemic - terrible timing ) .

Then I found out that the new homophobia is same as the old homophobia, but even worse. Stonewall have put out statements saying that same-sex attraction doesn't exist (refering to same gender attraction only). The same people who wave Pride flags and wear shirts that say 'love is love' on them believe that lesbians are bigots if they don't suck dicks.

And it isn't just a couple of people online saying this - it is thousands of people telling lesbians and gay men that we're not allowed to be homosexual.

lesbian-rights-nz.org

I don't want trans people to hate themselves, I'll refer to trans people IRL by their preferred pronouns, I'll campaign for third spaces in prisons and hospitals so they're not at risk from other men... but I don't want the next generation of lesbians to feel the way that I felt, and if we agree than men are women, then these future lesbians will feel that way.

I've seen multiple tik toks and reddit threads and tumblr threads from (clearly) young lesbians asking how they change their 'genital preference' so they can stop hurting (men's) feelings. It's heartbreaking.

 

[PastryPolly]

I guess I'm wondering how you all ended up with these views ? Having a trans cousin and close friends who are gay I grew up knowing about everythingg. Did none of you have trans friends or anything ?

I dunno, logical, joined up thinking probably had a lot to do with it.

I'm not sure what having gay friends has to do with anything, gay people and trans people are not the same.
I have several gay friends and family, and in my circle they think the trans cult is as much a load of claptrap as I do, and frankly there's a perception that the unrelenting trans lobby is doing their community more harm than good by association, have you ever heard of the "drop the T" campaign?
For someone that "grew up knowing about everything" I would gently suggest you have a bit of study to do yet.

 

[petitspois]

I'm not against trans people existing as that term is only used to try to inflame discussions and for one side to say 'they wish we were dead!' but I am against such an increasing number of people transitioning - I really think it should be negligible numbers.

 

[Cassandra333]

Remember when they were always screaming that 'words are literal violence'? Yet had no problem with women receiving death threats and rape threats.

Have a read of this article which highlights the sort of harm that TRA's are causing.

I’m Being Investigated by the British Columbia College of Nurses Because I Believe Biological Sex Is Real

Sydney. London. Toronto.

quillette.com

 

[Django]

Do any of you work in medicine ?

Yes.
Have you read Invisible Women by Caroline Criado-Perez?
This is quite a scholarly article but gives some facts as a starting point.

Sex Differences in Body Composition - PubMed

Body composition differs between men and women. Men have more lean mass, and women have more fat mass than men. Men are more likely to accumulate adipose tissue around the trunk and abdomen, whereas women usually accumulate adipose tissue around the hips and thighs. Less is known about sex...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Deeznutslol]

Do any of you work in medicine ?

I’m a student pharmacist but why? You don’t need any sort of healthcare degree to have an opinion on whether a biological male with a cock and balls should be allowed into women only spaces or not…

 

[Cassandra333]

This is how TRA's react to women stating that we are under threat.

 

[Ilovemusic]

Can people sign this please? (You have to be British)

Petition: Remove references to 'gender identity' from relationships education guidance

Since 2020 the DfE has published guidance for relationships and sex education. This says "Pupils should be taught the facts and the law about sex, sexuality, sexual health and gender identity in an age-appropriate and inclusive way". Gender identity is a social construct, and not recognised in law.

petition.parliament.uk

Signed

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

the majority seem to be against trans people existing - not gonna get into that, your views are your own business.

The majority of people on this thread, do you mean? Or the majority in society more generally? It’s not clear from your post.

If you mean this thread, it would be great if you could provide quotes that support this.

Macy Grey’s GC comment -> piled-on by TRAs -> backpedal -> still piled-on -> full terf is surely the quickest public peaking cycle ever

She’s not messing around!

Do any of you work in medicine ?

I don’t understand why a medical career has any bearing on being critical of gender ideology. Please could you explain?