Gender Discussion #28

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I really feel for intersex people. To say 'assigned sex at birth' is exploiting intersex people and taking advantage of their situation to push the Trans ideology.
When I was having a disagreement on Saturday with someone, they used Intersex in their argument about TWAW. I pointed out that being Intersex was an entirely different situation to being Trans. This is the problem with adding more letters to LGB, they aren't the same or even close. Intersex is a biological fact, Trans isn't. The only time there are parallels is in sport and that is an issue that is slowly being resolved on a case by case basis dependent on what type of DSD the athlete has.
 
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The intersex/dsd argument is a smokescreen and diversion at best. An irrelevant distraction from the fact that being a woman isn't a "feeling".
 
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I've genuinely never seen an intersex person who feels happy being used in this way either. Every time I see intersex people on Twitter they're saying 'stop using us to prove your argument, we have a sex' or something similar. Extremely crass.
 
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It's all very A level philosophy student to me. Like 'you're so unenlightened that you think words can't change meaning' etc. Are we meant to think it's a coincidence that it's only words that affect women? It reminds me very much of that annoying guy who went on Question Time fairly recently with a huge pack of very old papers, started arguing with a world renowned expert on vaccines etc, and then said 'I studied philosophy and we were taught that an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy' when the expert's qualifications and experience were pointed out. Some people just are not interested in facts, that's fine and up to you, but you can't force other sensible people to believe in your fairytale.
I remember that guy. So many pretty thick people think they have a towering intellect - mainly men of course.
 
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I've genuinely never seen an intersex person who feels happy being used in this way either. Every time I see intersex people on Twitter they're saying 'stop using us to prove your argument, we have a sex' or something similar. Extremely crass.
Exactly, they've basically being used as a human shield for a load of Internet crackpots who seem to think the existence of people with dsd 'validates' their delusion.
 
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This is so heartening that I just had a little cry: a feature on the BBC2 Wimbledon coverage about the issue of the all-white rules and the concerns this creates for female players during their period. And (unless my concentration lapsed and I missed it) they talked exclusively about WOMEN and they talked only to NATAL WOMEN about it. At the start Joanna Konta said ‘Periods are completely natural, and half the people here have them’, but it seemed that ‘people’ was used in the sense of ‘women are 50% of the population so lets not ignore the reality of their biological experience’.

The fact that I braced myself at the start of the feature for mention of ‘people who menstruate’ and redundant attempts at inclusive language is a sad sign of the times, but well done BBC/Wimbledon. Seeing Sue Barker, Tracy Austin and Billie Jean King chatting about how great it was that this was being discussed openly now seeing as it was a forbidden topic when they were younger brought a tear to my eye.
 
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...well if I have to explain it to you, you’re never going to understand’ schtick. 🙄
If you can't explain it to me, then you clearly don't understand it. Are you frightened I'll ask questions? What if I ask questions you can't answer? Will you admit that you don't understand it either? :rolleyes:
 
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Do these people not have even the most basic grasp of human biology? All this 'assigned at birth' rubbish is so misleading.
View attachment 1398779

I totally agree but I think there is a LOT of nonsense out there and people repeat it and then believe it. I know women who just spout non scientific nonsense and I have no idea what to say in response. Like someone else said, it’s a cult… you can’t argue with nonsense. It’s sort of funny but sort of depressing. Like when one of my friends told me men are like women because their hormones fluctuate in the same way to women’s menstrual cycles. And those ‘scientists’ on Twitter saying chromosomes aren’t a thing.

I suppose we’ve all got used to science making new discoveries and scientists changing their minds on things… maybe that’s why people think there’s truth in this?
 
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Somebody should start a rumour off about a doctor in Budapest who has discovered how to change someone's chromosomes and then it would really change your sex without having to take hormones or have surgery 😄🤭

You could set up a spoof site then spread it all round twatter. See how many of them fall for it. I bet they would 😄
 
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How one-sided would it be if, as you apparently wish given your comments elsewhere, we weren't "allowed" to voice gender critical views which are legally protected in the UK? Wouldn't that also be one-sided?

(Edit to correct spelling)
Good point ! No I think this topic is great to have but the majority seem to be against trans people existing - not gonna get into that, your views are your own business.

I guess I'm wondering how you all ended up with these views ? Having a trans cousin and close friends who are gay I grew up knowing about everythingg. Did none of you have trans friends or anything ?

It is deffo much more common now. My aunt who is in endocrinology told me over 34% of her patients regret or don't go ahead with the physical side which is LOT.
 
I totally agree but I think there is a LOT of nonsense out there and people repeat it and then believe it. I know women who just spout non scientific nonsense and I have no idea what to say in response. Like someone else said, it’s a cult… you can’t argue with nonsense. It’s sort of funny but sort of depressing. Like when one of my friends told me men are like women because their hormones fluctuate in the same way to women’s menstrual cycles. And those ‘scientists’ on Twitter saying chromosomes aren’t a thing.

I suppose we’ve all got used to science making new discoveries and scientists changing their minds on things… maybe that’s why people think there’s truth in this?
First of all, do you want to debate the subject with them? Not everyone does and that's fine. It can be scary to challenge someone elses view point. I've always had a big mouth and have no problem with it. We're all different though.

If you do want to challenge then there are lots of answers you can give. For anything non scientific, you can ask for proof. And by proof you mean scientific proof. Not social science theories. Always remember that trans ideology is a THEORY, not fact.

Push the religious aspects - no debate just do what we tell you. Faith because theres no proof etc.

Point out that if they support trans ideology then they support the chemical castration of boys. Boys who are not old enough to make that life changing decision. That's child abuse and why are they supporting child abuse? Surely they don't want children to be abused.

Men's hormones are very different to female hormones. Which is why trans people have to take the hormones of the opposite sex. Menstruation is very different to 'hormones'. Men do not have hormone fluctuations in the same way that women have menstruation. It's impossible to compare the two because men don't have blood flooding out between their legs. It's nonsense to say its the same and again, ask for scientific proof, not theory.

'Scientists' on Twatter saying that chromosomes aren't a thing are clearly lying. Why are the lying? Is it to make money out of trans ideology? It's a growing field and theres lots of money to be made and lots of prestige to be had. And who cares if they butcher a few people along the way? No problem with that.

People think there's truth in this because they've been brainwashed by social media and news outlets. They honestly can't see that the Emporer is naked. Finally point out that this is a war against women. We're losing definitions, words and spaces. That's called misogyny and if they support misogyny then they're just scum.

Sorry if this is a bit lecture - y. Don't mean to do that but I want to share ideas on how to argue and the stuff you can say.
 
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Flat earthers exist - they believe in things I don’t. I’m happy for them to exist, but when they try and make me believe what they do - that the earth is flat - and call me a round earth bigot and send me death threats when I state facts - I don’t appreciate it.

The Catholic Church exists - when it’s members abuse children and warp their minds they must be stopped and prosecuted.

it’s not about them - it’s what they are doing to women’s spaces, womens sports, science, education and trying to convince children that they have the wrong body. As an ideology, it’s as regressive about gender stereotypes as the fundamental Abrahamic religions.
 
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Good point ! No I think this topic is great to have but the majority seem to be against trans people existing - not gonna get into that, your views are your own business.

I guess I'm wondering how you all ended up with these views ? Having a trans cousin and close friends who are gay I grew up knowing about everythingg. Did none of you have trans friends or anything ?

It is deffo much more common now. My aunt who is in endocrinology told me over 34% of her patients regret or don't go ahead with the physical side which is LOT.
This "against trans people existing" thing, what does it mean? Can you elaborate?

I started going to gay clubs at 16 (I'm 36 now). Spent my entire 20s in Manchester's gay village (as in, lived and socialised there), my closest friends are gay men who came out in the 90s and early 2000s. I had a 7 year lesbian relationship and have been to more Prides than I can remember. My favourite place to go out was Napoleon's, which was (is?) one of the more popular venues for trans women, although there was more differentiation between transgender/transsexual/transvestite/cross dressers then. First encounter was when I was about 8 when family holiday was spent in a hotel run by a couple of drag queens. Have met many, many trans people in my life as a result of the circles I move in. One of my closest friend just paid for a mutual friend's sex reassignment surgery. We probably wouldn't be friends if I was some evil woman who didn't want trans people to exist (a bloody ludicrous claim).

I've also spent the last 20 years reading feminist literature.

I think gender non conformity is great, I just don't think there's any magic that makes a man a woman just because he says. He's free to live and dress how he likes as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't change reality. My only concern is that women have access to single sex spaces.

The fact you think we "don't understand" seems like sheer arrogance on your part, although you do seem very young so perhaps it's that.
 
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Do any of you work in medicine ?
What does that matter? We all have female bodies. We identify as women, adult human females. This is about our sex based rights.

Also, there was a time when people working in medicine prescribed cigarettes to people with asthma. And have a look at at Thalidomide if you want to see other stuff that 'people in medicine' did. Then have a look at surgeons butchering the genitals of people who are intersex. And finally, remember the old adage that surgeons bury their mistakes.
 
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People who argue for, and support trans ideology are objectively wrong. It is a cult, plain and simple. Nobody is born in the wrong body. It is impossible to identify as the opposite sex because sex is not a feeling inside someone's head.

Trans cult is both socially and psychologically harmful and will be identified as so as time goes on and further research is conducted.

Women and girls are at risk from autogynephiles.

'Medicine' used to treat people by giving them frontal lobotomies and ECT.

Need I go on?

Oh, and insulin therapy for schizophrenia.
 
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Good point ! No I think this topic is great to have but the majority seem to be against trans people existing - not gonna get into that, your views are your own business.
Nobody here denies trans people exist and I can’t speak for everyone else but I am not against trans people existing. But I do not think that trans women are women and trans men are men.

guess I'm wondering how you all ended up with these views ?
We covered it in school during Science lessons. It’s one of the first basic facts of biology.

Having a trans cousin and close friends who are gay I grew up knowing about everythingg. Did none of you have trans friends or anything ?
I’m gay but don’t have any trans friends, no. If I did, it wouldn’t change my mind that humans can’t change sex.

It is deffo much more common now.
Well, that’s what happens with social contagion. Look throughout history, it’s repeatedly happened.

My aunt who is in endocrinology told me over 34% of her patients regret or don't go ahead with the physical side which is LOT.
It makes no difference whether they go through the “physical side” or not, it makes no difference to the sex that someone is.
 
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