Gender Discussion 107

[MaineCoonMama]

Also tooting my own horn here, this is the most reacted to post in Tattle (Celeb thread) today. When I first joined the gender threads it might've got about 15 likes and a few sick faces but they've all been hearts and likes.

It was in response to someone who'd called G. Linehan transphobic and claimed his wife caught him watching trans porn.

 

[DoraMaar]

 

[People-huv-tae-know]

Don't mince your words Gez, tell us how you really feel.

 

[Miss Ophelia]

Succinct

Do you want to know what the women called TERF’s believe?
Buckle up. Here it is:
Women are adult human females.
Men are adult human males.
No man is a woman.
Woman, man, boy, girl, female, male are all sex based terms.
No human being has or can change sex.
Femininity and masculinity are socially created and imposed.
Being feminine is not a condition of being female.
Being masculine is not required to be male.
Men and boys can be feminine.
Women and girls can be masculine.
"Transwomen" are men.
Lesbians are women who are sexually attracted to other women.
Gay men are men sexually attracted to other men.
Legal sex just means a man has changed his identity documents to claim to be a woman.
Gender ideology is bullshit.
No child is born in the wrong body.
Puberty blockers and cross sex hormones are sterilisation of primarily homosexual or autistic youth.
"Trans" isn’t a coherent demographic of people.
"Trans" is a man made concept.
Safeguarding of women’s boundaries is important.
Safeguarding children is paramount.
Female spaces are necessary.
No males in female sport.
When we say female, we’re saying it to reference both women and girls. Otherwise, we’ll be specific about women or girls.
Nonbinary is the equivalent of emo or goth, it’s a phase and doesn’t deserve or warrant legislative validation.
Females are oppressed on the basis of being female, aka sex. Don’t believe us? Look to women in Afghanistan.
While males are also entitled to male only spaces, they’re very different in society and law to female spaces.
Women’s rights matter.”
- Sall Grover @salltweets on X
Revolutionary stuff. And by that I just mean, the reality that everyone knew for all of history until about 5 seconds ago.

 

[MaineCoonMama]

Just hit 230 reactions on the Celeb post, you guys. This would never have happened 3-4 years ago.

 

[funkimunki1984]

 

[Funny_bunny]

Oh, just had a Labour canvasser at my door. I told him exactly why I wouldn’t be voting for them. He claimed it’s not Labour policy, complicated, blah, blah, blah.
I said it’s not, you’re either male/female, no one can change sex.
”But what should trans women do?”
Well, they’re men, use the men’s facilities
”Well, what about women who’ve changed?”
They're women, it’s not an issue for them to be in women’s toilets.
And so it went on, I usually wouldn’t say boo to a goose, but I feel so strongly ( especially as a now politically homeless former Labour voter), and especially right after having a poster on another thread wagging their finger at me, I wasn’t going to let it drop.

 

[Funny_bunny]

Exactly. Like so much about this, it’s all about not upsetting men.

 

[Metropolis]

No words

Ruling upheld after transgender woman excluded from female-only app

A landmark Federal Court ruling that the exclusion of a transgender woman from a female-only app constituted unlawful gender identity discrimination is upheld on appeal.

www.abc.net.au

ETA this

 

[IcanSpellBéchamel]

The Muslim woman anonymised as Faye Russell-Caldicott has won her tribunal against NHS England! The panel upheld allegations 1 and 3 - that NHS England's policy of allowing trans-identifying men to use the female facilities was harassment in relation to sex and GC beliefs, and that the policy had the effect of violating FRC's dignity or creating the proscribed environment on the grounds of her GC beliefs.

 

[YeahBrackie]

A lesbian group I'm in on Facebook which is run by a woman who used to say we should respect each other's opinions on trans related issues has now gone full Troon. She's made a man one of the admins (yes, a man is an admin of a lesbian group) and he's kicking out/banning actual lesbians who don't believe men can be lesbians.

Last thing I saw before I left the group was the woman who made it posting a picture which simply said "fuck terfs."

I'm so fucking sick of this shit. We don't have any bloody spaces any more, and I'm sick to death of seeing other lesbians pandering to this like simpering little handmaidens (despite the fact none of them would be seen dead dating a cock in a frock. TRA in the streets, TERF in the sheets, as the saying goes.)

 

[MaineCoonMama]

Thanks for speaking up. That poster had no right to moderate the thread anyway, I thought that was out of order, I did genuinely think I was posting on this thread though I agree, I don’t think I posted anything that didn’t fit in the other thread anyway. Those cases absolutely fit in with injustices to women, I care about the safety of women and girls, and allowing any men in to women’s spaces is IMHO wrong.
I‘ve now used the “ignore“ button!

One of the greatest injustices against women in our time is TIMs and the hijacking of womanhood be it using our loos or being referred to as she and her by news outlets when they are not our crimes and are almost always against us.

Also cis can get in the bin along with everyone who uses it. We are women, plain and simple.

I hope what I wrote makes sense, I've just been woken up in the middle of the night by a screeching harpy of a possum and am still half asleep.

 

[Mugglewump]

I wish more men would do the same.

 

[Never would have guest]

Labour wannabe leader Andy Burnham has made his views on women’s safety crystal clear and would be ready to give away our rights at the drop of a hat.

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https://archive.ph/tC7Zm

It may sound silly to some but what worries me is that these people make an assumption that being GC is a minority view because we aren't the shouty aggressive ones.

Some of us are still, to some degree afraid to speak out or speak up because it would mean being abused or even losing our jobs which we depend on to actually live.

I hate this whole thing makes me feel like a coward because I cannot always speak up as I'd like, I hate that there will be women up and down the country who feel the same and I hate that because of this, we are seen as a minority opinion and TRAs will win.

Yet its them that are silenced and persecuted. Fuck off.

 

[FourSeasonSoupObsessive]

Bloody hell, that’s one of my worse nightmares (encountering friends’ or family’s kids who have decided to trans identify). Did you feel obliged to go along with it?

I run in artsy, lefty middle class circles which means I am blessed with a truly astonishing amount of trans people in my life, so my poker face is impeccable now. I keep my trap shut, I move the conversation on, I avoid pronouns, then I gtfo as soon as I’m able. Exhausting. But it’s a well trodden path now, there must be a dozen or more trans identified kids in my circle of family and friends. This is the third cousins child to trans, and I’ve only got five cousins!

 

[Peachsquish]

From Janet Murray's fb page

I believe people “peak” about trans ideology in stages - and we have to let them.

Because some of what people eventually discover is genuinely frightening and difficult to process.

Push too hard too early, and instead of becoming more open to the evidence, many will simply shut down or turn away from it completely.

I also think we need to show people compassion - and make it acceptable for people change their minds as they learn more.

Because many people (myself included) have been misled, pressured and emotionally manipulated into believing they were being 'kind' and tolerant. When actually the opposite was actually true.

STAGE 0: “Live and let live.”

You support gay rights and assume this is mostly about kindness and acceptance.

You may feel uncomfortable about men in women’s spaces - but it hasn’t affected you personally, so you don’t think too deeply about it.

And because it’s all grouped together under LGBTQIA+, you’ve never really separated sex (LGB) and gender identity (TQIA+).

STAGE 1: Something unsettles you.

Maybe it’s a nurse being forced to share a changing room with a man who says he's a woman at work. A parent challenging a school because girls are expected to undress in front of a male pupil. Boys being allowed to join a girls’ only organisation.

At the same time, you start noticing language changing.
NHS leaflets that say “Pregnant people” or “cervix havers”. Women’s initiatives that include men.
Men in women’s sport.
Children being medically transitioned.

You still feel sympathetic - especially towards young people struggling with gender identity - but something feels ‘off’.

But you still think there must be a sensible solution.
Third spaces. Clear boundaries. Some kind of ‘compromise’ maybe?

But when you cautiously voice even mild concerns - or see someone else doing so - you realise these views are often treated as unacceptable.

STAGE 2: The penny drops.

You realise this isn’t simply about being kind to people who are different. People are being expected to publicly deny biological reality - socially, politically and professionally.

You notice people in positions of power saying ridiculous things - like ‘women can have penises’ or men can 'grow cervixes.' And that challenging such ridiculous statements costs people jobs, reputations and friendships.

You notice some gay people are pushing back hard - and why.
Because if sex is no longer real or meaningful, then neither is same-sex attraction.

So this doesn’t just affect women’s rights, but gay people too - whose hard-won rights also depend on sex being real.

You learn about women like Maya Forstater, Kellie-Jay Keen and Sall Grover - women who have been publicly attacked, vilified and, in Kellie-Jay Keen’s case, physically assaulted, for what feel like entirely reasonable positions about sex and women’s boundaries.

You learn what a “TERF” is - and how it’s used as a slur against women who defend their sex-based rights.

You see pictures of masked protesters holding up signs calling for women to be hanged and r*ped. Videos of activists calling for them to be urinated and defecated on. Simply for defending their lawful right to single sex changing rooms, toilets and other intimate spaces.

You notice journalists, politicians and institutions seemingly afraid to state basic biological facts. Male offenders - who have committed the most serious crimes - being described as women in the press.

You start to feel the chill.
Not just around women’s rights - but around free speech itself.

And start asking yourself:
If people can be pressured into denying biological reality - into literally agreeing that the man standing in front of them is actually a woman - what else can they be pressured into staying silent about?

STAGE 3: You can’t unsee it

You realise that men demanding access to women’s spaces aren’t poor, misunderstood people who simply want acceptance.

They are vulnerable.
But they need mental health support - not affirmation.

You learn that some may have a recognised condition called autogynephilia - where a man is sexually aroused by the idea of himself as a woman.

And realise - often with horror - that many public institutions have embedded harmful ideology in the name of compassion and inclusion. Without properly questioning it.

Allowing some men to bring their ‘kinks’ to work, education, social and other aspects of public life. In some cases, into settings that include children.

You still have compassion. And recognise that many vulnerable children - and their parents - have been swept up in something adults should have questioned much sooner. But know you can’t look the other way.

Because you now understand why so many ordinary people stayed silent - not because they agreed, but because they were afraid.

At this stage, some people speak publicly. Many speak up earlier.
Others support quietly behind the scenes.

But very few return to Stage 0 - and nor should they.

 

[Metropolis]

Happy 200th @MaineCoonMama

 

[MaineCoonMama]

That post from yesterday is still getting likes.

I feel like Churchill, you know.
We shall fight them in the toilets, we shall fight them in the changing rooms. We will defend our spaces whatever the cost may be.

(Paraphrasing, I only know it because it's the intro to Aces High by Iron Maiden.)

 

[moldwarp]

Just wanted thank whoever posted a link to that Unheard article about the BBC the other day - yes I could go back and see who it was but I am old and tired. Had to read it in about 3 sittings but it was very good

I found it quite scary actually. As I've posted before, I clocked the BBC had gone full time into social engineering about 2014 (it probably happened earlier, just took me longer to clock on) and stopped watching, which is not much of a loss as I have always been more of a reader than a telly watcher anyway. BUT prior to that I would've classed the BBC alongside politicians, OBEs and other cultural elites, as generally being trustworthy, honest, well educated and having Britain's best interests at heart.

The last 12 or so years have shown that our cultural elites are snobs, liars and weak-minded herd followers who care more about being on the North London posh dinner party circuit than they do about critical thinking, empirical evidence or scientific accuracy. On the trans thing and IMHO, on a bunch of other things as well - Covid, immigration, British history, British culture, the economy, the Middle East, loads more (that list is MY OPINION ONLY, other Tattlers may well disagree with me and that's fine. I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from with this).

As a working class immigrant brought up to respect authority, especially the authority of those who have been highly educated, let me tell you that it's a bit of a dark night of the soul when you start to realise that our cultural elites not only dislike Britain, but are also willing to LIE about basic facts of biology/history/whatever, but ALSO, and worst of all, are possibly not very bright and just want to mindlessly follow the crowd. But this is the psychological reckoning I went through in the years after 2016, and very strange it felt too.

Actually it worked out well for me as I stopped taking recieved opinion and started reading hard, deliberately picking cornerstone thinkers of Western culture, and history, too. And actually I feel a lot more spiritually and mentally fulfilled for doing so. And more confident in my own abilities to discern facts and patterns and interpret them for myself.

But, yeah. I just look at certain politicians and cultural opinion formers and I think: You were willing to lie about the most basic biological fact of the human species. With that in mind, why should I trust you about anything you say, ever again?

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

This time about mixed sex toilets in a secondary school in Greystones

https://archive.ph/x0yHh

‘I’ve been in contact with the school over email and they say it’s perfectly safe in a toilet area [cubicle] that’s floor-to-ceiling. But it’s more than just going to the toilet. It’s about a safe space where there are other girls, not just a cubicle. You can’t get a moment to yourself all day where you aren’t being observed,’ she added.

No it's not "perfectly safe" in a floor-to-ceiling cubicle - and the fact that they have to build them like this to try to reduce the risks shows that they know girls aren't safe.

Girls can have epileptic fits in such cubicles and no-one is even aware of it. They can faint. They can be bundled inside by a boy or boys and assaulted and no-one will know or help.

And sometimes girls are too self-conscious to even pee in the hearing of other girls, never mind boys. Or the shame of breaking wind, or having diarrhoea, or having to ask for extra toilet roll if it runs out (And how will that be provided? In single-sex toilets someone just pushes some under the door) - same if someone goes to the loo and finds they've started their period and hasn't any protection on them - whyatdo they do, come out, grab a tampon/pad and rush back in? In front of a load of boys? REALLY?

There is no privacy, no dignity and no safety for girls.

Edit - spelling