English Channel migrant crossing crisis

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Unsurprising that you don't want to respond anymore.

Anyway it appear that in general we have moved on from pages and pages of invective about 'genuine (or not) asylum seekers' to fretting about 'illegal migrants' and from the 'small boats' (the subject of this thread) to other routes into the UK.

Although it's apparently 'not disputed' I'm still not convinced that it's universally accepted that people who claim asylum when arriving in the UK are not illegal or economic migrants. They are asylum seekers whose claims should be considered on their merits.

So leaving asylum seekers aside, what are 'illegal' (or more properly irregular" migrants? There doesn't seem to be a broadly accepted definition that could be used to assess the size of the problem or what can be done about it. Certainly in terms of small boat crossings I understand that 91% of people arriving through that route claim asylum which leaves 9% that don't. On 2022 figures that amounts to 4,118 people. Not hugely significant

A wider definition of illegal (or irregular) migrants could include:
  • people entering irregularly by other routes
  • people entering irregularly by deception / forged documents
  • people entering regularly but then breaching conditions (overstaying visas etc)
  • people born in the UK to parents who entered irregularly
Irregular migrants are not permitted to work or to rent property, to access most social security benefits or some public services such as social housing and hospital based healthcare.

It is thought that the most substantial number of irregular migrants are those that enter the country by legitimate means and then breach the conditions of entry (e.g overstay visas etc). We don't seem to hear so much about those compared with the apparently much less significant number that come via small boats. Why is that?
So you do agree ( trying to read between your very blurred lines) that we should support everyone that lands here until their claim for asylum is processed, even those that had a previous claim rejected and came back, those that had a claim rejected elsewhere and decided to reapply in the UK ,that’s what I’m getting from you.
I don’t believe I was fretting about anything other than those taking advantage of the system, or being placed amongst the community when they’re undocumented and nobody knows anything about their background.
 
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In other words they’re criminals if they’re travelling on fake documents which is one of the concerns people are raising.
Seeking asylum isn't illegal yet, criminal courts confirm, quashing small boat convictions - Free Movement

The specifics with air travel and documents has been addressed but I'm sure the underlying legal conclusion is the same - if the purpose is to seek asylum, they are not acting illegally

I have addressed the criminal concerns by pointing out that ROI, a member of the EU, has access to EU criminal data base. The majority, if not all, of asylum seekers will have their finger prints taken when they arrive into the EU and have a document trail following them

Of course, you then replied with "who said they are from the EU?" because there is always a "what if" when it comes to these discussions. Who says they stayed in a non-EU country, assuming it's not their home country also, for long enough to have anything to their criminal record? Do you think some of these countries are going to have robust criminal databases and can be trusted to provide unbiased criminal reports?
I will say, if they can and they show that someone had been arrested for political activism that makes seeking asylum so much easier as they have essentially provided proof on a silver platter that someone with an asylum claim based on persecution has a legitimate claim

Really, the UK has a slightly bigger issue with this because we've lost access to the EU database
We do have some agreement with M5 countries though but it's rather silly because of who the countries are
Biometric data-sharing process (Migration 5 biometric data-sharing process) (publishing.service.gov.uk)
 
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Seeking asylum isn't illegal yet, criminal courts confirm, quashing small boat convictions - Free Movement

The specifics with air travel and documents has been addressed but I'm sure the underlying legal conclusion is the same - if the purpose is to seek asylum, they are not acting illegally

I have addressed the criminal concerns by pointing out that ROI, a member of the EU, has access to EU criminal data base. The majority, if not all, of asylum seekers will have their finger prints taken when they arrive into the EU and have a document trail following them

Of course, you then replied with "who said they are from the EU?" because there is always a "what if" when it comes to these discussions. Who says they stayed in a non-EU country, assuming it's not their home country also, for long enough to have anything to their criminal record? Do you think some of these countries are going to have robust criminal databases and can be trusted to provide unbiased criminal reports?
I will say, if they can and they show that someone had been arrested for political activism that makes seeking asylum so much easier as they have essentially provided proof on a silver platter that someone with an asylum claim based on persecution has a legitimate claim

Really, the UK has a slightly bigger issue with this because we've lost access to the EU database
We do have some agreement with M5 countries though but it's rather silly because of who the countries are
Biometric data-sharing process (Migration 5 biometric data-sharing process) (publishing.service.gov.uk)
As the thread is running on literal definitions, anyone travelling on fake documentation amounts to a criminal offence.
Why do you assume they were in another EU country before they arrived in Dublin?
Remember the guy that blew himself up outside a Liverpool hospital had a fake passport, yet you see nothing wrong with these people living amongst us
 
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Again, this is why processing of asylum claims should not be taking 2+ years.
But that’s the government’s problem ,not the people that are expected to “just take a chance “ that the hotel next to them isn’t full of dangerous criminals …Aww yeah I forgot they’re far right Neo nazis for wanting a safe environment for themselves and their families🙄
 
Or novel idea, just don’t let criminals in in the first place so the processing doesn’t take so long!
What makes you think it is criminals who are slowing the system down?

Or are you saying those without documents should not be counted as asylum seekers?
 
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What does that have to do with people crossing the channel to seek asylum or asylum seekers in general?
Aren’t most of them trafficked? Or should we ignore those traffickers with high standing?
 
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Aren’t most of them trafficked? Or should we ignore those traffickers with high standing?
Some of them are trafficked, yes, but a crime occurring in one circumstance has no relation to it happening in another.

Trafficking isn't something that only happens to people seeking asylum, so I'm failing to see the relevance to this discussion.

And staying on topic doesn't mean ignoring something is happening.
 
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Some of them are trafficked, yes, but a crime occurring in one circumstance has no relation to it happening in another.

Trafficking isn't something that only happens to people seeking asylum, so I'm failing to see the relevance to this discussion.

And staying on topic doesn't mean ignoring something is happening.
We don’t know if it was only one incidence, that may be the only one they intercepted.
 
We don’t know if it was only one incidence, that may be the only one they intercepted.
There's not much to suggest that the person would have sought asylum in the UK, and I would very much guess that he would have been told/forced not to as there would have been a serious risk of this coming out

Seems more to be abount undocumented migration which is different from the asylum seekers which are documented
 
We don’t know if it was only one incidence, that may be the only one they intercepted.
Until the case is concluded, there's nothing to suggest this has anything to do with asylum seekers and refugees. The only way it would would be if the victim claims asylum. Which he may not but if he did escaping a politician/political system who tried to harvest your organs seems like a valid reason.
 
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There's not much to suggest that the person would have sought asylum in the UK, and I would very much guess that he would have been told/forced not to as there would have been a serious risk of this coming out

Seems more to be abount undocumented migration which is different from the asylum seekers which are documented
They promised him a better life in the UK he thought the medical was for a visa?
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It still has nothing to do with asylum seekers and refugees.
If he thought he was making a new / better life in the UK it’s no different to those traffickers that bring people here under false pretences imo.
 
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