Dolly Alderton/Pandora Sykes

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I know someone who has met Pandora and apparently she is a complete witch. She turns up with an assistant and apparently just sat their stony faced the entire time, rolling her eyes. I find it very hard to listen to the high low and listen to her talk about her insecurities and trying to be so “woke” when I know she’s actually a complete cow. It’s a shame because I really, really like dolly.
 
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I really disliked it and couldn't finish it. I just found it so self-involved, snotty, classist and humourless. One of the few bits I remember is where she made fun of a hypothetical person for wanting to buy a new-build flat in Penge (south London). I think, in her mind, she was making fun of the upwardly-mobile type who wants a nice but boring house in the suburbs. Maybe that kind of joke was funny 30 years ago. Now, given her position in society, it just felt like she was making fun of those with less money than her who were trying to build a good life for themselves.

(I live in Penge. Maybe that's coloured my view.)
Ah I remember that but, I see what you mean.
 
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I know someone who has met Pandora and apparently she is a complete witch. She turns up with an assistant and apparently just sat their stony faced the entire time, rolling her eyes. I find it very hard to listen to the high low and listen to her talk about her insecurities and trying to be so “woke” when I know she’s actually a complete cow. It’s a shame because I really, really like dolly.
I’ve often thought you can hear an eye roll over the airwaves.
The other day dolly did a AMA on insta. Someone asked what her favourite thing was about 🐼. She said that pandora never witches about people behind their backs. That may be true or may be a dig at this thread but she definitely makes snide remarks.

I keep thinking about the niggles I have around their privilege. Several people have highlighted how P and D do acknowledge it more than others and that they are good are sharing their platform with less privileged normos. I do agree but something still irks me and it’s not just the giant chip on my shoulder.

It’s not just P and D but they do have a huge platform and their USP is basically ‘Posh but Woke AF. I am increasingy disappointed by how much they are selling out (the merch, the sly promos and puff pieces that are not adequately flagged, the endless live events)

I’ve also been surprised by some things they’ve recently said and some things I’ve read on this forum. I was really shocked by Dolly’s ‘even my cleaner was disgusted’ (paraphrasing) comment on twitter.Also, when they were discussing ‘Such a Fun Age’ on the podcast they said some things which I found a touch racist (I’d be interested in others’ opinions, maybe I need another listen).They were discussing the part in the book where the wealthy white character Alix was hiding her privilege from her black babysitter, Amira (cutting tags off clothes and pretending to eat leftovers). I read the book and read that as a class thing. The way they Discuss it on the podcast is as a race thing From the assumption that black equals poor. I feel that that whole scenario in the book could be flipped with a wealthy black employer and poorer white nanny of you see what I mean? While so much of that book is about race I don’t think that part necessary was and I found their discussion of it jarring. I also found it interesting that Dolly said she found bits of it very uncomfortable reading (fair enough) and how she cannot imagine ANY of her (presumably white) friends reading it without discomfort around privilege when a lot of the privilege in the book is also surrounding wealth.

I maybe need to re phrase this message When I’m less tired. Does anyone get what I mean?

Just want to add that when they addressed the BLM movement on the podcast (I seem to remember a whole episode being dedicated to it for extra WPWP) they recommended a wealth of books and resources. They mentioned that someone (I think it was Reni Eddo-Lodge) had voiced discomfort about the huge rise in sales linked to the recent BLM events. They suggested various ways of sharing the books that were being suggested e.g getting them second hand or borrowing them from a library (groundbreaking ). Now I know this was in current Covid uncertainty around jobs and economy but FFS it made me so mad on behalf of the authors. They never suggest scrimping on books (Pandora makes a point of mentioning the enormous amount she lets herself spend on books and magazines). They also plug away at their own books. Don’t recall them suggesting people pass around a copy of their book EVER. Instead they bang on about the importance of pre ordering for authors and paying for ‘good’ journalism (regular Times Online plug and The Pound Project - Dolly’s mate). Maybe it was very unfortunate timing and maybe it was a genuine push to get those books read by as many people as possible but it seemed like the work of those authors and academics was not worth paying full price for.
 
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I'm all for pre-ordering books from authors I love. It is an important way to support writers who need it. But, cynically, it's also a way to sell the book to unsuspecting fans before anyone's realised how bad it is.

It’s not just P and D but they do have a huge platform and their USP is basically ‘Posh but Woke AF. I am increasingy disappointed by how much they are selling out (the merch, the sly promos and puff pieces that are not adequately flagged, the endless live events)
And why??? Does anyone think they actually need the money???
 
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I'm all for pre-ordering books from authors I love. It is an important way to support writers who need it. But, cynically, it's also a way to sell the book to unsuspecting fans before anyone's realised how bad it is.



And why??? Does anyone think they actually need the money???
Haha yes!
Also I notice that the review rating for Pandora’s book it gradually coming down from it’s inflated just published form.

Authors with a big enough platform could turf out any old crap and I swear it would be a five staR best seller for a few weeks. So often I am taken in by the hype and buy a book only to be so disappointed. Now I tend to wait a while for the real reviews to start coming in unless I already know and love the author.
 
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Haha yes!
Also I notice that the review rating for Pandora’s book it gradually coming down from it’s inflated just published form.

Authors with a big enough platform could turf out any old crap and I swear it would be a five staR best seller for a few weeks. So often I am taken in by the hype and buy a book only to be so disappointed. Now I tend to wait a while for the real reviews to start coming in unless I already know and love the author.
Totally agree! And a lot books that end up being reviewed by the authors famous close friends usually disappoint me too - can you trust that a book with quotes on the cover from the authors friends are genuine? I mean of course it's loyalty to friends but not very impartial.

I’ve often thought you can hear an eye roll over the airwaves.
The other day dolly did a AMA on insta. Someone asked what her favourite thing was about 🐼. She said that pandora never witches about people behind their backs. That may be true or may be a dig at this thread but she definitely makes snide remarks.

I keep thinking about the niggles I have around their privilege. Several people have highlighted how P and D do acknowledge it more than others and that they are good are sharing their platform with less privileged normos. I do agree but something still irks me and it’s not just the giant chip on my shoulder.

It’s not just P and D but they do have a huge platform and their USP is basically ‘Posh but Woke AF. I am increasingy disappointed by how much they are selling out (the merch, the sly promos and puff pieces that are not adequately flagged, the endless live events)

I’ve also been surprised by some things they’ve recently said and some things I’ve read on this forum. I was really shocked by Dolly’s ‘even my cleaner was disgusted’ (paraphrasing) comment on twitter.Also, when they were discussing ‘Such a Fun Age’ on the podcast they said some things which I found a touch racist (I’d be interested in others’ opinions, maybe I need another listen).They were discussing the part in the book where the wealthy white character Alix was hiding her privilege from her black babysitter, Amira (cutting tags off clothes and pretending to eat leftovers). I read the book and read that as a class thing. The way they Discuss it on the podcast is as a race thing From the assumption that black equals poor. I feel that that whole scenario in the book could be flipped with a wealthy black employer and poorer white nanny of you see what I mean? While so much of that book is about race I don’t think that part necessary was and I found their discussion of it jarring. I also found it interesting that Dolly said she found bits of it very uncomfortable reading (fair enough) and how she cannot imagine ANY of her (presumably white) friends reading it without discomfort around privilege when a lot of the privilege in the book is also surrounding wealth.

I maybe need to re phrase this message When I’m less tired. Does anyone get what I mean?

Just want to add that when they addressed the BLM movement on the podcast (I seem to remember a whole episode being dedicated to it for extra WPWP) they recommended a wealth of books and resources. They mentioned that someone (I think it was Reni Eddo-Lodge) had voiced discomfort about the huge rise in sales linked to the recent BLM events. They suggested various ways of sharing the books that were being suggested e.g getting them second hand or borrowing them from a library (groundbreaking ). Now I know this was in current Covid uncertainty around jobs and economy but FFS it made me so mad on behalf of the authors. They never suggest scrimping on books (Pandora makes a point of mentioning the enormous amount she lets herself spend on books and magazines). They also plug away at their own books. Don’t recall them suggesting people pass around a copy of their book EVER. Instead they bang on about the importance of pre ordering for authors and paying for ‘good’ journalism (regular Times Online plug and The Pound Project - Dolly’s mate). Maybe it was very unfortunate timing and maybe it was a genuine push to get those books read by as many people as possible but it seemed like the work of those authors and academics was not worth paying full price for.
Totally agree about the Reni Eddo-Lodge comment! I follow her on Twitter and saw her tweet about this. She said that she would donate some of her income from the book doing so well in response to the BLM related sales, and also asked that if people buy it to also donate to a relevant charity if able. Pandora and Dolly could have highlighted this instead of encouraging people not to buy the book! (I didn't actually listen to that episode though just going off what you said!)
 
Imagine your "best friend" wishing you happy birthday on Instagram with a topless photo of herself.
 
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She looks different in real life. Her selfie face is good but watch any video of her she looks totally different irl


It wasn’t too embarrassing actually in NY she just went to a tinder date persons house in middle of night and he wanted group sex and she said no and she went to sleep and the flat mate woke up and screamed get out witch or something like that.
I'm guessing "flat mate" was probably the guy's girlfriend.
 
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I’d actually really like to read what you / they didn’t like about it, if you have the time. I’m interested as while I enjoyed it as a quick read, I’m a bit older and I was trying to figure out how much of experience and views are those of her peers.
selected quotes from friends about Dolly’s book:
“Self indulgent drivel”
“So boring I didn’t make it past page 46”
“If the author didn’t have a high profile this never would have been published”
“Utterly forgettable”
 
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just her topless? Was the friend not in it at all? weird if so
it was a photo of Dolly and two friends in the sea. She was topless but the rest were in a bikini or a swimsuit (I think, totally didn't notice them cz of the nakey Dolly)
 
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Just reading Bryony Gordon’s new book... as per, Dolly is quoted on the back!

Anyway, it’s about Bryony’s alcoholism and the stories in it are utterly shocking. She’s really, really put it all out there.

A thought keeps popping in my mind as I read it, and I don’t want to put too much stock in this because it’s just conjecture, but given the way Dolly talks about drinking, I’m glad she’s read it. It has occurred to me that Dolly often sounds like younger Bryony, back when Bryony was writing in The Telegraph about her party adventures and laughing off her drinking.
This is my view absolutely. I think she has a drinking problem and it will catch up with her soon.
 
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I’d actually really like to read what you / they didn’t like about it, if you have the time. I’m interested as while I enjoyed it as a quick read, I’m a bit older and I was trying to figure out how much of experience and views are those of her peers.
Just to add to @Old fart 's response, my friends and I are the target demo and there was a clear divide amongst them along the lines of race and class when it came to who enjoyed it and who detested it. My poshest London-dwelling white friend adores it. An Asian friend, who devours books at a rate I envy, said it was one of the worst things she'd ever read.
 
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I'm white and middle class and devour books and I hated Dolly's book.

Incidentally, I remember reading the press release when Pandora got her book deal and it made a big thing about how well read she is. Surely that should be a given if you're an author with any credibility whatsoever? Felt like damning with faint praise.
 
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I’ve often thought you can hear an eye roll over the airwaves.
The other day dolly did a AMA on insta. Someone asked what her favourite thing was about 🐼. She said that pandora never witches about people behind their backs. That may be true or may be a dig at this thread but she definitely makes snide remarks.

I keep thinking about the niggles I have around their privilege. Several people have highlighted how P and D do acknowledge it more than others and that they are good are sharing their platform with less privileged normos. I do agree but something still irks me and it’s not just the giant chip on my shoulder.

It’s not just P and D but they do have a huge platform and their USP is basically ‘Posh but Woke AF. I am increasingy disappointed by how much they are selling out (the merch, the sly promos and puff pieces that are not adequately flagged, the endless live events)

I’ve also been surprised by some things they’ve recently said and some things I’ve read on this forum. I was really shocked by Dolly’s ‘even my cleaner was disgusted’ (paraphrasing) comment on twitter.Also, when they were discussing ‘Such a Fun Age’ on the podcast they said some things which I found a touch racist (I’d be interested in others’ opinions, maybe I need another listen).They were discussing the part in the book where the wealthy white character Alix was hiding her privilege from her black babysitter, Amira (cutting tags off clothes and pretending to eat leftovers). I read the book and read that as a class thing. The way they Discuss it on the podcast is as a race thing From the assumption that black equals poor. I feel that that whole scenario in the book could be flipped with a wealthy black employer and poorer white nanny of you see what I mean? While so much of that book is about race I don’t think that part necessary was and I found their discussion of it jarring. I also found it interesting that Dolly said she found bits of it very uncomfortable reading (fair enough) and how she cannot imagine ANY of her (presumably white) friends reading it without discomfort around privilege when a lot of the privilege in the book is also surrounding wealth.

I maybe need to re phrase this message When I’m less tired. Does anyone get what I mean?

Just want to add that when they addressed the BLM movement on the podcast (I seem to remember a whole episode being dedicated to it for extra WPWP) they recommended a wealth of books and resources. They mentioned that someone (I think it was Reni Eddo-Lodge) had voiced discomfort about the huge rise in sales linked to the recent BLM events. They suggested various ways of sharing the books that were being suggested e.g getting them second hand or borrowing them from a library (groundbreaking ). Now I know this was in current Covid uncertainty around jobs and economy but FFS it made me so mad on behalf of the authors. They never suggest scrimping on books (Pandora makes a point of mentioning the enormous amount she lets herself spend on books and magazines). They also plug away at their own books. Don’t recall them suggesting people pass around a copy of their book EVER. Instead they bang on about the importance of pre ordering for authors and paying for ‘good’ journalism (regular Times Online plug and The Pound Project - Dolly’s mate). Maybe it was very unfortunate timing and maybe it was a genuine push to get those books read by as many people as possible but it seemed like the work of those authors and academics was not worth paying full price for.
The discussion of Such a Fun Age also came across as about race rather than class, when I thought the book was pointed more towards class?
I also had the same feelings as you towards them encouraging people to borrow books instead of buying them. I think they’re so consumed with trying to seem ‘woke’ that they miss the mark entirely sometimes, and unfortunately that comes from a place of immense privilege and institutionalised classism.
 
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Never heard or read anything by Bryony Gordon but finished that book within 24 hours. Also inhaled Terri White’s memoir of severely deteriorating mental health and alcohol abuse in New York. I’m, apparently, fascinated with highly successful young women and their demons.

I would recommend both.
 
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The discussion of Such a Fun Age also came across as about race rather than class, when I thought the book was pointed more towards class?
I also had the same feelings as you towards them encouraging people to borrow books instead of buying them. I think they’re so consumed with trying to seem ‘woke’ that they miss the mark entirely sometimes, and unfortunately that comes from a place of immense privilege and institutionalised classism.
It’s definitely about both but having listened to and read interviews with the author, Kiley Reid, it’s more about race (given the premise is the Black babysitter getting stopped with the white child) - but totally agree that their discussion was weird, top level and just... really boring... They said absolutely nothing of note (in fact can hardly remember anything they said other than Dolly harping on about it being a difficult read)
 
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Do you all remember when Dolly was talking once about attending friends’ birthday parties? I remember Pandora saying it’s good etiquette to turn up and not cancel, and Dolly said sometimes you just HAVE to cancel. But her solution was to phone up the pub or venue and have a bottle of champagne delivered to the table. I’ve just revisited that and realised how bloody narcissistic that move is. Oh look at me, I’m amazing because the whole table will have to be interrupted as a bottle of Veuve is delivered — so although I can’t be bothered to attend your party, I’ll still steal the show.
 
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Do you all remember when Dolly was talking once about attending friends’ birthday parties? I remember Pandora saying it’s good etiquette to turn up and not cancel, and Dolly said sometimes you just HAVE to cancel. But her solution was to phone up the pub or venue and have a bottle of champagne delivered to the table. I’ve just revisited that and realised how bloody narcissistic that move is. Oh look at me, I’m amazing because the whole table will have to be interrupted as a bottle of Veuve is delivered — so although I can’t be bothered to attend your party, I’ll still steal the show.
I have a friend of a friend who is in the habit of doing this, but on the next level.
I’ve been on a few nights out where we’ve been sat down to dinner and a bottle of champagne will arrive from her, even if it’s a night out she hasn’t been invited to.
She sent one to the bridal suite of a wedding she wasn’t a guest at.
And even had a bottle of bubbly and chocolate covered strawberries delivered to the hotel room of a friend who was on a ‘make or break‘ type weekend away with her partner. From experience I can say that the majority of the group are of the opinion that it is highly narcissistic.
 
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Do you all remember when Dolly was talking once about attending friends’ birthday parties? I remember Pandora saying it’s good etiquette to turn up and not cancel, and Dolly said sometimes you just HAVE to cancel. But her solution was to phone up the pub or venue and have a bottle of champagne delivered to the table. I’ve just revisited that and realised how bloody narcissistic that move is. Oh look at me, I’m amazing because the whole table will have to be interrupted as a bottle of Veuve is delivered — so although I can’t be bothered to attend your party, I’ll still steal the show.
I’m rejecting you and buttering you up so you can’t be (justly) annoyed with me - eyes rolling into my shoulder blades
 
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