Desperate help for 8 year olds sleep

[Mrspowell]

Hi,

I have tried everything & thought let’s turn to tattle and the font of all your knowledge. I know no one in the same boat as me and I am at breaking point well and truly.

Basically my 8 year old doesn’t sleep. From the moment we brought him home from hospital he hasn’t never slept well. I was a young mum & thought maybe I’d just got it all wrong, then I had my youngest and he slept like a dream from day 1 despite nothing being different in the way I handled sleep.

We are now 8 years on. It can take 4/5 hours to get him to sleep, then he’s awake through the night at least once sometimes more. We try and put him back in his bed but by 3am we run out of steam and he just gets in our bed, sometimes I don’t actually hear him and wake up with him in our bed. As soon as bedtime is mentioned that’s it. Hysteria. Usually outbursts of anger, which can vary in severity.

He does occasionally sleep through but it’s rare and usually if he’s only fallen asleep around midnight.

I’m at serious breaking point I’m having panic attacks and im very ashamed to admit, suicidal thoughts.

It’s destroying my marriage as we get no evenings together at all. I want to cry when people talk about the latest tv shows as we couldn’t dream of being able to watch tv at night. And of course it’s affecting his behaviour in the day.

He’s a very bright child with no diagnoses of ASD, he’s is popular, kind, but he struggles with his emotions and has terrible anger outbursts. He is quite an anxious worrier too.

I’ve recently tried going right back to basics with a really strict bedtime routine that starts at 6 with no more screens, bath, stories, school reading, playing a game, then a gentle persuasion into bed, and it worked for 3 days. There’s not much I haven’t tried but I’m struggling now, I’m getting around 3 hours sleep a night.

We have a doctors app finally on 15th feb. I’m not sure what to ask, or should I be thinking there could be more to this?

Anyone in the same boat? Or any Advice.

From a broken mum x

 

[Blair-Waldorf]

Hi,

I have tried everything & thought let’s turn to tattle and the font of all your knowledge. I know no one in the same boat as me and I am at breaking point well and truly.

Basically my 8 year old doesn’t sleep. From the moment we brought him home from hospital he hasn’t never slept well. I was a young mum & thought maybe I’d just got it all wrong, then I had my youngest and he slept like a dream from day 1 despite nothing being different in the way I handled sleep.

We are now 8 years on. It can take 4/5 hours to get him to sleep, then he’s awake through the night at least once sometimes more. We try and put him back in his bed but by 3am we run out of steam and he just gets in our bed, sometimes I don’t actually hear him and wake up with him in our bed. As soon as bedtime is mentioned that’s it. Hysteria. Usually outbursts of anger, which can vary in severity.

He does occasionally sleep through but it’s rare and usually if he’s only fallen asleep around midnight.

I’m at serious breaking point I’m having panic attacks and im very ashamed to admit, suicidal thoughts.

It’s destroying my marriage as we get no evenings together at all. I want to cry when people talk about the latest tv shows as we couldn’t dream of being able to watch tv at night. And of course it’s affecting his behaviour in the day.

He’s a very bright child with no diagnoses of ASD, he’s is popular, kind, but he struggles with his emotions and has terrible anger outbursts. He is quite an anxious worrier too.

I’ve recently tried going right back to basics with a really strict bedtime routine that starts at 6 with no more screens, bath, stories, school reading, playing a game, then a gentle persuasion into bed, and it worked for 3 days. There’s not much I haven’t tried but I’m struggling now, I’m getting around 3 hours sleep a night.

We have a doctors app finally on 15th feb. I’m not sure what to ask, or should I be thinking there could be more to this?

Anyone in the same boat? Or any Advice.

From a broken mum x

This sounds awful I didn’t want to read and run I’ve seen melatonin patches are supposed to help? Sending you lots of love x

 

[HoGi]

What changed after the 3 days of strict routine?

ETA I mean why did it only work 3 days?

 

[Mrspowell]

What changed after the 3 days of strict routine?

ETA I mean why did it only work 3 days?

I think he cottons on to it, it’s like he doesn’t want to sleep

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

Hi,

I have tried everything & thought let’s turn to tattle and the font of all your knowledge. I know no one in the same boat as me and I am at breaking point well and truly.

Basically my 8 year old doesn’t sleep. From the moment we brought him home from hospital he hasn’t never slept well. I was a young mum & thought maybe I’d just got it all wrong, then I had my youngest and he slept like a dream from day 1 despite nothing being different in the way I handled sleep.

We are now 8 years on. It can take 4/5 hours to get him to sleep, then he’s awake through the night at least once sometimes more. We try and put him back in his bed but by 3am we run out of steam and he just gets in our bed, sometimes I don’t actually hear him and wake up with him in our bed. As soon as bedtime is mentioned that’s it. Hysteria. Usually outbursts of anger, which can vary in severity.

He does occasionally sleep through but it’s rare and usually if he’s only fallen asleep around midnight.

I’m at serious breaking point I’m having panic attacks and im very ashamed to admit, suicidal thoughts.

It’s destroying my marriage as we get no evenings together at all. I want to cry when people talk about the latest tv shows as we couldn’t dream of being able to watch tv at night. And of course it’s affecting his behaviour in the day.

He’s a very bright child with no diagnoses of ASD, he’s is popular, kind, but he struggles with his emotions and has terrible anger outbursts. He is quite an anxious worrier too.

I’ve recently tried going right back to basics with a really strict bedtime routine that starts at 6 with no more screens, bath, stories, school reading, playing a game, then a gentle persuasion into bed, and it worked for 3 days. There’s not much I haven’t tried but I’m struggling now, I’m getting around 3 hours sleep a night.

We have a doctors app finally on 15th feb. I’m not sure what to ask, or should I be thinking there could be more to this?

Anyone in the same boat? Or any Advice.

From a broken mum x

A prescription for melatonin may help. That's the first thing I'd be asking for given how many things you've tried.

The anger and emotional issues could be a result of him not getting much sleep.

It might be worth asking (or the GP might suggest) a full blood panel to check his various hormone levels ok.

Does he enjoy reading? I know he's quite young to be staying up late but I wonder if taking the pressure off bedtime might be worth a try? He could read for a couple of hours and maybe would drift off. Or he could do some 'quiet play', something like Lego perhaps.

Have you tried putting him to be in your bed rather than his own? If he's a worrier he might be overthinking potentially negative situations once he's alone with his thoughts (At his age I used to lie in bed imagining attending people's funerals or planning how I'd escape the house in the event of a fire for example). I know this might seem like a step backwards as ideally you'd rather him be in his own bed but it might reduce his anxiety a bit.

I do feel your pain as I also have a child who doesn’t sleep much (due to ADHD in his case). Melatonin does work for him but he refuses to take it most of the time.

Sorry if I've suggesting things you've already tried or that you don't think will be helpful. I hope you get some support from the GP.

Also, you don't need to feel ashamed of having suicidal thoughts. It's ok to admit you're finding things hard. You're dealing with something very stressful that has been going on a long time. Please let your GP know how you are feeling though.

If it is at all possible, try and find time for some self care. It doesn't have to be anything big. Maybe just a soak in the bath, reading a chapter of a book, treating yourself to a special meal or fancy drink of some sort. These might sound like silly little things but when you're in a situation that you can do little to change, you tend to live in 'survival mode' and these little things become life lines.

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

I couldn’t sleep until I was 25. I just couldn’t. Id close my eyes and it would take hours and hours for me to fall asleep. When I was a child I’d be awake until gone 2am most nights.

My mum would always put me in my room at the same time and make me stay there. If I didn’t sleep I didn’t sleep, but the rule was that I didn’t leave the room.

Is there no way you can just get him to stay in his room, even if he doesn’t sleep? Just because he isn’t sleeping, that doesn’t mean he should be allowed to disturb yours and your husband’s nightly routine/sleep.

I think he’s got a lot of control at the moment and he knows it. I’d speak to your doctor, but honestly I’d just put him in his room at night and leave him. If he sleeps he sleeps, if he doesn’t he doesn’t, but don’t allow him to come out and start disturbing others. If he doesn’t have additional needs then he’s old enough to follow rules.

 

[swimming]

Hi,

I have tried everything & thought let’s turn to tattle and the font of all your knowledge. I know no one in the same boat as me and I am at breaking point well and truly.

Basically my 8 year old doesn’t sleep. From the moment we brought him home from hospital he hasn’t never slept well. I was a young mum & thought maybe I’d just got it all wrong, then I had my youngest and he slept like a dream from day 1 despite nothing being different in the way I handled sleep.

We are now 8 years on. It can take 4/5 hours to get him to sleep, then he’s awake through the night at least once sometimes more. We try and put him back in his bed but by 3am we run out of steam and he just gets in our bed, sometimes I don’t actually hear him and wake up with him in our bed. As soon as bedtime is mentioned that’s it. Hysteria. Usually outbursts of anger, which can vary in severity.

He does occasionally sleep through but it’s rare and usually if he’s only fallen asleep around midnight.

I’m at serious breaking point I’m having panic attacks and im very ashamed to admit, suicidal thoughts.

It’s destroying my marriage as we get no evenings together at all. I want to cry when people talk about the latest tv shows as we couldn’t dream of being able to watch tv at night. And of course it’s affecting his behaviour in the day.

He’s a very bright child with no diagnoses of ASD, he’s is popular, kind, but he struggles with his emotions and has terrible anger outbursts. He is quite an anxious worrier too.

I’ve recently tried going right back to basics with a really strict bedtime routine that starts at 6 with no more screens, bath, stories, school reading, playing a game, then a gentle persuasion into bed, and it worked for 3 days. There’s not much I haven’t tried but I’m struggling now, I’m getting around 3 hours sleep a night.

We have a doctors app finally on 15th feb. I’m not sure what to ask, or should I be thinking there could be more to this?

Anyone in the same boat? Or any Advice.

From a broken mum x

Random, but does he have recurrent ear or tonsil infections? Snore? Wake up coughing?

It might be worth looking into a referral to ENT, and they might want to conduct a sleep study. Just to make sure he’s not got massive tonsils that are causing some form of sleep apnea. That can cause horrific times, tantrums, fear of bedtime, mos behaviour, bed wetting, and it can also be misdiagnosed as ADHD.

im sorry to hear you’re having such a hard time, you have my full sympathies as my 18 month old just will not nap in the day. Never has more than 20 mins and then spends the rest of the day sooooo grouchy cos he’s knackered. I’m at witts end, hate leaving the house cos he tantrums in public cos yep, tired. My mood is currently very low because of this.

I really hope you get some answers soon x

 

[CoffeeMamma]

Our five year old broke us too
I found loads of studies proving magnesium helps sleep so we give a magnesium supplement 1 hour before bed and the difference is crazy. We’re still very early in our experiment but for the sake of a £6 bottle of magnesium gummies I’m really happy. He settles better and is staying asleep for longer, when he wakes at night it’s only for a toilet trip or drink then he returns to bed on his own.

 

[pimplepopper123]

I used to suffer terribly with sleep. Caused my parents so many issues similar to yourself. I'd start worrying about bedtime from around 3pm in the afternoon, it was awful. I've since learnt that it all stems from anxiety, fear of abandonment, and fear of losing control/falling asleep. It might not be what you son is experiencing but mine was purely anxiety based. Back then 'anxiety' wasn't really a thing and it was put down to me just being a problem child. Might be worth looking into when you visit the Dr x

 

[Mrspowell]

I used to suffer terribly with sleep. Caused my parents so many issues similar to yourself. I'd start worrying about bedtime from around 3pm in the afternoon, it was awful. I've since learnt that it all stems from anxiety, fear of abandonment, and fear of losing control/falling asleep. It might not be what you son is experiencing but mine was purely anxiety based. Back then 'anxiety' wasn't really a thing and it was put down to me just being a problem child. Might be worth looking into when you visit the Dr x

I think this is exactly what he’s expeirencing… because I was exactly the same. Exactly how you describe is how I was a child. We’ve registered for some counselling and GP app is next week x
---

Our five year old broke us too
I found loads of studies proving magnesium helps sleep so we give a magnesium supplement 1 hour before bed and the difference is crazy. We’re still very early in our experiment but for the sake of a £6 bottle of magnesium gummies I’m really happy. He settles better and is staying asleep for longer, when he wakes at night it’s only for a toilet trip or drink then he returns to bed on his own.

Wow ok! I mean it can’t do any harm to try! Big fan of magnesium spray when they get growing pains if works instantly so let’s give this a try too, thanks so much
---

A prescription for melatonin may help. That's the first thing I'd be asking for given how many things you've tried.

The anger and emotional issues could be a result of him not getting much sleep.

It might be worth asking (or the GP might suggest) a full blood panel to check his various hormone levels ok.

Does he enjoy reading? I know he's quite young to be staying up late but I wonder if taking the pressure off bedtime might be worth a try? He could read for a couple of hours and maybe would drift off. Or he could do some 'quiet play', something like Lego perhaps.

Have you tried putting him to be in your bed rather than his own? If he's a worrier he might be overthinking potentially negative situations once he's alone with his thoughts (At his age I used to lie in bed imagining attending people's funerals or planning how I'd escape the house in the event of a fire for example). I know this might seem like a step backwards as ideally you'd rather him be in his own bed but it might reduce his anxiety a bit.

I do feel your pain as I also have a child who doesn’t sleep much (due to ADHD in his case). Melatonin does work for him but he refuses to take it most of the time.

Sorry if I've suggesting things you've already tried or that you don't think will be helpful. I hope you get some support from the GP.

Also, you don't need to feel ashamed of having suicidal thoughts. It's ok to admit you're finding things hard. You're dealing with something very stressful that has been going on a long time. Please let your GP know how you are feeling though.

If it is at all possible, try and find time for some self care. It doesn't have to be anything big. Maybe just a soak in the bath, reading a chapter of a book, treating yourself to a special meal or fancy drink of some sort. These might sound like silly little things but when you're in a situation that you can do little to change, you tend to live in 'survival mode' and these little things become life lines.

Thanks so so much for all of this. Things have moved on quite significantly this week & we are now looking at an adhd diagnosis. I basically have had a nervous breakdown and am not ina. Good place myself so people are actually listening to me now. Thanks so much for all the advice I really appreciate x

 

[CoffeeMamma]

I think this is exactly what he’s expeirencing… because I was exactly the same. Exactly how you describe is how I was a child. We’ve registered for some counselling and GP app is next week x
---


Wow ok! I mean it can’t do any harm to try! Big fan of magnesium spray when they get growing pains if works instantly so let’s give this a try too, thanks so much
---


Thanks so so much for all of this. Things have moved on quite significantly this week & we are now looking at an adhd diagnosis. I basically have had a nervous breakdown and am not ina. Good place myself so people are actually listening to me now. Thanks so much for all the advice I really appreciate x

Magnesium is a huge help for children with ADHD too (my son has SPD, presents in a similar way), so it won’t hurt. We also do Vitamin D every day, plus sunlight as much as possible, including daylight bulbs. Again this is just from my research. Remember they drove people to literal insanity from exhaustion so you take care of yourself too and do what you need to for you and yours x x

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

Thanks so so much for all of this. Things have moved on quite significantly this week & we are now looking at an adhd diagnosis. I basically have had a nervous breakdown and am not ina. Good place myself so people are actually listening to me now. Thanks so much for all the advice I really appreciate x

I'll be honest and say that doesn't surprise me, given some of the info you provided. I just didn't want to do what can be a typical SEN parent response and say it must be a neurodiversity when there could be other things behind the behaviour. You may still find that it is anxiety based lack of sleep rather than ADHD. The assessments are really thorough but be prepared for a long wait.

Whatever the outcome, please keep chatting on here for support. There are a couple of specific threads for children with special needs as well, I'm not sure if you've found those?

I can't promise you things will immediately improve but there will be days that are better that others. Thinking of you x

 

[Mrspowell]

I'll be honest and say that doesn't surprise me, given some of the info you provided. I just didn't want to do what can be a typical SEN parent response and say it must be a neurodiversity when there could be other things behind the behaviour. You may still find that it is anxiety based lack of sleep rather than ADHD. The assessments are really thorough but be prepared for a long wait.

Whatever the outcome, please keep chatting on here for support. There are a couple of specific threads for children with special needs as well, I'm not sure if you've found those?

I can't promise you things will immediately improve but there will be days that are better that others. Thinking of you x

Thank you so much for your kindness. I’ve questioned asd for years, we have Asperger’s in the family and I’ve always wondered but school have always said to me “no he’s absolutely fine in school” he’s been observed by the senco 2 times and they never even got back to me. So I put it down to my own parenting mistakes, lockdown, anxiety. But my sisters Asperger’s and anxiety run hand in hand together so it’s likely this is the case too with him and possible adhd. I’ll have a look for the sen threads thank you, feel heartbroken he’s 8 and it’s got to this and only now are we getting him the right help.

But onwards and upwards Right. He actually slept ok the last 2 nights so just got to give lots of praise and ride the storm I suppose xx

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

Hi,

I have tried everything & thought let’s turn to tattle and the font of all your knowledge. I know no one in the same boat as me and I am at breaking point well and truly.

Basically my 8 year old doesn’t sleep. From the moment we brought him home from hospital he hasn’t never slept well. I was a young mum & thought maybe I’d just got it all wrong, then I had my youngest and he slept like a dream from day 1 despite nothing being different in the way I handled sleep.

We are now 8 years on. It can take 4/5 hours to get him to sleep, then he’s awake through the night at least once sometimes more. We try and put him back in his bed but by 3am we run out of steam and he just gets in our bed, sometimes I don’t actually hear him and wake up with him in our bed. As soon as bedtime is mentioned that’s it. Hysteria. Usually outbursts of anger, which can vary in severity.

He does occasionally sleep through but it’s rare and usually if he’s only fallen asleep around midnight.

I’m at serious breaking point I’m having panic attacks and im very ashamed to admit, suicidal thoughts.

It’s destroying my marriage as we get no evenings together at all. I want to cry when people talk about the latest tv shows as we couldn’t dream of being able to watch tv at night. And of course it’s affecting his behaviour in the day.

He’s a very bright child with no diagnoses of ASD, he’s is popular, kind, but he struggles with his emotions and has terrible anger outbursts. He is quite an anxious worrier too.

I’ve recently tried going right back to basics with a really strict bedtime routine that starts at 6 with no more screens, bath, stories, school reading, playing a game, then a gentle persuasion into bed, and it worked for 3 days. There’s not much I haven’t tried but I’m struggling now, I’m getting around 3 hours sleep a night.

We have a doctors app finally on 15th feb. I’m not sure what to ask, or should I be thinking there could be more to this?

Anyone in the same boat? Or any Advice.

From a broken mum x

I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through and am not sure if my advice will help.

I have no personal experience on the matter but I recently watched a programme in which, again the oldest child around 10, was a very anxious child who struggled to sleep at night.
They got a dog and it helped immensely as it was specifically got to help calm the boy. Is that something you could try? Does he like dogs? Maybe you could foster an older calm dog with they option of adoption if it goes well. If he knows the dogs is sleeping with him at night things might improve

 

[shadowcat5]

is sleeping with the radio, podcast, tv or a film on a possibility?

I know it sounds absolutely nuts and goes against every bit of advice we're given but hear me out! I am autistic and I suffer terrible anxiety. I am particularly awful at transitioning from one activity to another. I will be sat downstairs eyes closing but I can't will myself to go to bed. I struggle terribly with insomia, couldn't sleep and when I did I'd wake mulitple times. Nothing would shift it either, not sea air, not chamomile tea, not reading, staying up later. Didn't matter what I did.

I started sleeping listening to a podcast on yt. It's a guy I always watch so I'm used to the sound of his voice and there's no changes in volume with ads or explosions or anything like that. Just low volume talking. I am asleep in 30 minutes max. I think the reason it works is cause I'm listening to his voice instead of just sitting in my own head thinking about how I need to fall asleep.
I know BBC sounds does some podcasts for children (they do horrible history ones definitely). It might be worth a go?