Constance Marten and Mark Gordon Case #5

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I understand your thinking but surely they could be putting plans in place whilst carrying on with their "normal" life. Ie organisation fake documents for MG, travel arrangements, maybe securing a place to stay abroad. No one would be any the wiser. He could have done his last signing on, they leave the same day or day after and by the time anyone realised anything was amiss, they would be long gone.

I've also wondered though, if CMs trust fund money wasn't quite as much as we all assume. She got a £19k payment in December, but 2 further payments of 3k (again in December) and just 800 in January. She said they had fines from the motor home, was it 25k? and her family wouldn't help. I'm wondering if the December payments were possibly annual payments rather than regular monthly payments. The trust have refused to pay for her legal representation and past legal issues (the fines) so maybe her cash flow wasn't quite what it appeared. I know absolutely nothing about trust funds BTW its just my own ponderings.
Yes but they’re chaotic too. Plus she may not have known exactly when the baby was due, next thing she’s in Labour the wrong side of new year?
 
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I know it’s not a huge point but a few people have mentioned folie a deux, but their behaviour isn’t what I understand to be folie a deux at all, which is shared psychosis and delusion, and there is no sign they were suffering this- in fact it’s pretty clear from the arrest footage they weren’t.
It’s really interesting because it’s a very rare situation where under certain circumstances psychosis can be “contagious”

this is the most fascinating case I’ve come across, not sure if anyone else remembers it
jesussss I don’t know why I’ve never heard of this case before - I can’t believe she only got five years - away to do a deep dive now!!

That’s not what I understand a folie a deux to be though either…I’ve never heard of it as a shared psychosis, I thought the like of Brianna Gheys killers, rose & Fred west etc were known to be folie a deux. Usually one is the more dominant and the other subservient but neither could carry out the crime without the other? I was actually listening to a podcast about it today, but that was only from one expert so opinions may differ!
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Just realised they only met in 2016?! feels like that was yesterday! Can’t believe they had 5 kids in 2016-2023
I know I keep thinking it’s yesterday too.. and then I remember I had four children in that time 🙈

It’s a long time for them to be together considering what they went through and their lifestyle.. not many relationships would survive their lifestyle and traumas (because regardless of what we think of them, having children removed will have caused trauma.. and I’m sure there’s a lot we don’t know about and that their lifestyle choices caused a lot of stress at times). There is something that bonds these two together, and I don’t think it’s as simple as the normal “love” that you or I might experience with our partners... I think it’s incredibly complex.
 
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Yes but they’re chaotic too. Plus she may not have known exactly when the baby was due, next thing she’s in Labour the wrong side of new year?
Oh absolutely they were incredibly chaotic. I just wish I could understand why. I agree she wouldn't have known exactly when the baby was due but I do believe she would have had a rough idea, baby number 5 in 6 or so years, even without medical care she would have known roughly how far along. Either way surely you wouldn't wait until the last minute, they disappeared in September when she started to show, that gave them 3 months minimum. If I were in her shoes I'd have been on the first boat outta there. I think that's why I'm so sure there's something we are all missing, non of it makes any logical sense. They clearly had some kind of a plan going on, but it looks like the plan wasn't actually really even any kind of plan at all. I hope that makes sense.

Interested to see what tomorrow brings, if anything.
 
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No one is piling on you.
I was trying to point out for some it isn't easy to just improve your lot. You made it sound so simple and to me, it looked like you were not thinking of all the obstacles he'd have to overcome to improve his lot.
Sorry if I made you feel crap. This thread is very sensitive due to the nature of the crime and I should have taken that into account.
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I actually think if she was poor from a council estate I'd probably feel more sorry for her. I feel like I need to make this clear, I do not feel sorry for her one bit. I feel sorry for Victoria.
If she was from a council estate I would maybe understand that she didn't have the choices available to her that CM has, because money solves most problems.
Yes, they were, but never mind.
I didn’t think or say it was easy.
 
Oh absolutely they were incredibly chaotic. I just wish I could understand why. I agree she wouldn't have known exactly when the baby was due but I do believe she would have had a rough idea, baby number 5 in 6 or so years, even without medical care she would have known roughly how far along. Either way surely you wouldn't wait until the last minute, they disappeared in September when she started to show, that gave them 3 months minimum. If I were in her shoes I'd have been on the first boat outta there. I think that's why I'm so sure there's something we are all missing, non of it makes any logical sense. They clearly had some kind of a plan going on, but it looks like the plan wasn't actually really even any kind of plan at all. I hope that makes sense.

Interested to see what tomorrow brings, if anything.
I wish we could know for sure if MG had a passport / was allowed to leave the UK. It was a violent crime he was convicted for - albeit a looong time ago - but maybe it was a restriction on his SO license.

You would think though that they’d rent a cottage somewhere quiet, middle of no where, and just hide there with the baby.

It’s no wonder we all keep looking for the missing piece, none of it makes any sense.
 
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I wish we could know for sure if MG had a passport / was allowed to leave the UK. It was a violent crime he was convicted for - albeit a looong time ago - but maybe it was a restriction on his SO license.

You would think though that they’d rent a cottage somewhere quiet, middle of no where, and just hide there with the baby.

It’s no wonder we all keep looking for the missing piece, none of it makes any sense.
Yeh, I’m inclined to think it’s a passport thing.
The trouble with the middle of nowhere is that you stick out like a sore thumb, you’re better off trying to hide among the anonymity of a city. I get your point though, if they’d hidden well before the baby was born.
 
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Yeh, I’m inclined to think it’s a passport thing.
The trouble with the middle of nowhere is that you stick out like a sore thumb, you’re better off trying to hide among the anonymity of a city. I get your point though, if they’d hidden well before the baby was born.
That’s a good point. I think one of them said they were going to rent somewhere in London but then realised they were front page news.
 
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That’s a good point. I think one of them said they were going to rent somewhere in London but then realised they were front page news.
Again, none of it makes sense. The reason they were front page news was because of the placenta being found in the car. They will have known for months that Constance was pregnant, they had bags of time to find somewhere to live. If they'd sorted themselves out earlier, they could have found a little flat somewhere with a dodgy landlord who would accept cash, not ask for references etc, then kept out of the way and had a home birth. Nobody would have been any the wiser. Except of course, having had the other 4 children removed, had Victoria survived then she no doubt would have been neglected as well, and would have loved a longer miserable life than what she did.
 
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Morning All, Does anybody know if court is sitting today i can find live reporting.
 
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jesussss I don’t know why I’ve never heard of this case before - I can’t believe she only got five years - away to do a deep dive now!!

That’s not what I understand a folie a deux to be though either…I’ve never heard of it as a shared psychosis, I thought the like of Brianna Gheys killers, rose & Fred west etc were known to be folie a deux. Usually one is the more dominant and the other subservient but neither could carry out the crime without the other? I was actually listening to a podcast about it today, but that was only from one expert so opinions may differ!
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I know I keep thinking it’s yesterday too.. and then I remember I had four children in that time 🙈

It’s a long time for them to be together considering what they went through and their lifestyle.. not many relationships would survive their lifestyle and traumas (because regardless of what we think of them, having children removed will have caused trauma.. and I’m sure there’s a lot we don’t know about and that their lifestyle choices caused a lot of stress at times). There is something that bonds these two together, and I don’t think it’s as simple as the normal “love” that you or I might experience with our partners... I think it’s incredibly complex.
Folie a deux is definitely the sharing of a psychotic disorder that one person gives to another. It’s extremely rare - it’s not rose / Fred west ie people just working together to influence each other do awful things.

It’s a psychiatric syndrome so not related to crime itself- most the documented cases are nothing to do with commuting crime. It’s a fascinating rabbit hole to go down. It’s related to mass hysteria, but more rare and intense than that I think. The Swedish twins are fascinating- you should def watch the documentary if you’re interested

More about folie a deux here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/... a rare disorder,based on a delusional belief.
 
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So you’re there? Is the public gallery busy?
Hope something happens soon 🙄
Apologies no, I'm not there, I just wanted to add nothing was happening in case anyone got excited seeing the link appear, like I did. Fingers crossed it's back on track soon 🤞🏻
 
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