Constance Marten and Mark Gordon Case #5

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Do they not have mandatory statutory education for incarcerated juveniles?
I’m hardly saying it’s going to be a walk in the park, far from it, but can we really say he was guaranteed to be shoved in a dungeon and forgotten about, when we literally don’t know what happened to him as an individual.
Being mindful that he went through a 20 year process, and things change. On an individual and institutional level.
ETA: He’d be on the sex offenders wing, so I’m pretty sure he’d have to go through some sort of therapy or councilling.
 
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Do they not have mandatory statutory education for incarcerated juveniles?
I’m hardly saying it’s going to be a walk in the park, far from it, but can we really say he was guaranteed to be shoved in a dungeon and forgotten about, when we literally don’t know what happened to him as an individual.
I don't know whether they do. I'd like to think yes but I may be giving the US too much credit.
I cant imagine that he had much of an education before entering the prison system. I have no knowledge of this but I'm thinking, black, a boy, the 80s, raping his neighbour. I'm guessing he wasn't a grade A student with good parental influence.
Then he gets deported back to the UK and works as a labourer which you don't need formal education for.
I think we can assume he probably wasn't well educated and certainly at the lowest rung of the privilege ladder.
 
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I don't know whether they do. I'd like to think yes but I may be giving the US too much credit.
I cant imagine that he had much of an education before entering the prison system. I have no knowledge of this but I'm thinking, black, a boy, the 80s, raping his neighbour. I'm guessing he wasn't a grade A student with good parental influence.
Then he gets deported back to the UK and works as a labourer which you don't need formal education for.
I think we can assume he probably wasn't well educated and certainly at the lowest rung of the privilege ladder.
Yes, well I know that.
I was talking about improvement. Which can happen regardless of what rung of the ladder you start on.
 
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20 years is a huge amount of time. By the time he’d left prison he had spent significantly more of his life in prison than out of it. Not saying he didnt deserve it (if he was rightfully convicted) as the crime was horrific, but that 20 years in prison can have a huge impact on any person.

One thing I will say, for someone to commit such a horrific and violent crime at a young age and not reoffend is strange (ofc he is on remand now but i mean similar crimes)
 
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Yes, well I know that. I was talking about improvement. Which can happen regardless of what rung of the ladder you start on.
The world doesn't always allow for improvement of black male criminals. You don't need me to tell you that, an entire movement told us all about a couple of summers ago.
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Im amazed at how they met and hooked up! What on earth do they talk about?!
 
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Just realised they only met in 2016?! feels like that was yesterday! Can’t believe they had 5 kids in 2016-2023
 
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There are correspondence courses. The OU.
How does anyone’s ethnicity or past affect that? Even if he did have to disclose his conviction.
Myra Hindley completed a degree while in prison. Many others have too.
 
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Apart from the sister (who isn't doing him any favours imo) has anyone else said anything about MG?
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There are correspondence courses. The OU.
How does anyone’s ethnicity or past affect that? Even if he did have to disclose his conviction.
Speak to black men. They'll tell you.
 
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He must have been really warped in the head to do what he did at 14…

He probably convinced her that he didn’t do it and that he hates the authorities because they “set him up”.

She probably also felt wronged for what happened to her and probably got sucked into his attitudes against the authorities.
 
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Has anyone found / got a link for CM’s blog?
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There are correspondence courses. The OU.
How does anyone’s ethnicity or past affect that? Even if he did have to disclose his conviction.
Myra Hindley completed a degree while in prison. Many others have too.
For a black man in the US in the 90’s? Lol
 
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The world doesn't always allow for improvement of black male criminals. You don't need me to tell you that, an entire movement told us all about a couple of summers ago.
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Im amazed at how they met and hooked up! What on earth do they talk about?!
OK, I’m not going to win regarding poor, hard done by Mark. Fair enough.
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Has anyone found / got a link for CM’s blog?
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For a black man in the US in the 90’s? Lol
No, for when he was deported back to Britain in 2010, and for the next 6 years.
 
It’s so weird. They have had four children removed already and neither of them were able to take a step back and think tit, we need to change this.
It is, but I wonder whether MG did think this. He said in his interview that things went downhill pretty quickly after the car fire. Perhaps he’s just a follower, in that he has low self esteem and thinks that CM knows better?
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I understand your thinking but surely they could be putting plans in place whilst carrying on with their "normal" life. Ie organisation fake documents for MG, travel arrangements, maybe securing a place to stay abroad. No one would be any the wiser. He could have done his last signing on, they leave the same day or day after and by the time anyone realised anything was amiss, they would be long gone.

I've also wondered though, if CMs trust fund money wasn't quite as much as we all assume. She got a £19k payment in December, but 2 further payments of 3k (again in December) and just 800 in January. She said they had fines from the motor home, was it 25k? and her family wouldn't help. I'm wondering if the December payments were possibly annual payments rather than regular monthly payments. The trust have refused to pay for her legal representation and past legal issues (the fines) so maybe her cash flow wasn't quite what it appeared. I know absolutely nothing about trust funds BTW its just my own ponderings.
Quite possibly, if the car had not caught fire, no one would have known that Victoria had been born. As long as MG reported when he had to and CM kept a low profile with the baby, no one would be the wiser. They then could have moved abroad when MG came off the SO register.
 
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It's so strange. They didn't seem to be trying to have any kind of normal/acceptable life to be in their other children's lives on a more permanent basis. They just seem to be living aimlessly.

Imagine the car didn't burn out and they managed to go on the run with Victoria and they had access to proper accommodation - were they just going to completely abandon their four other children? Never visit them again? Although they probably weren't even thinking that far into the future.
Aren’t the four other children adopted now?
 
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I partly wonder if CM’s upbringing was quite saltburn style. When I watched the film I thought of her possibly being like the alcoholic crazy sister. Neither of them had a normal childhood really, well certainly not teenage years. I am intrigued that CM’s mother has come to watch the trial (and support her daughter?) but seemingly didn’t support her when she was on social services radar and had her kids taken away. Of course this is all just based on what-if’s and I guess maybe her mum didn’t even know she had children if they weren’t in contact. Really hope we do find out more about their backgrounds during the trial.
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Aren’t the four other children adopted now?
From what I believe the children were adopted so they wouldn’t have contact anyway.
 
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I’ve only had a quick google so far but found this - posted in 2016 - which might explain his labouring job if it’s what he knew


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Also this, from https://www.vera.org/reimagining-prison-web-report/american-history-race-and-prison


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Aren’t the four other children adopted now?
I don't know. There were photos of her visiting them after they'd been removed from her care. Sometimes birth parents stay in their kids lives even after adoption.

Has this article been posted before?

A quote from it:
The friend said she did not know how Ms Marten had met Gordon, but she claimed that her family had become concerned about her being with him.

'They looked into his past and found out that he had been in jail in the US. They were worried because of his record and made her aware of it. Her answer was to batton down the hatches and stay with him.

'She is a very loyal person, but also very stubborn. That is when she just dropped off the face of the earth in around 2015 or 2016.'

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So that goes someway to explain how she ended up estranged from her family.
 
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20 years is a huge amount of time. By the time he’d left prison he had spent significantly more of his life in prison than out of it. Not saying he didnt deserve it (if he was rightfully convicted) as the crime was horrific, but that 20 years in prison can have a huge impact on any person.

One thing I will say, for someone to commit such a horrific and violent crime at a young age and not reoffend is strange (ofc he is on remand now but i mean similar crimes)
I’ve wondered about this so many times and am also really surprised that he hasn’t committed any other violent sexual crimes in the 13 years since (as far as we know)
 
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