Constance Marten and Mark Gordon Case #2

[DellaC]

I was a child removed from my Mother by FANTASTIC Social Workers. At the age of 8 I slept with a kitchen knife under my pillow afraid of which one of her boyfriends would come into my bedroom. She wasn't a drug addict, she was an alcoholic and a narcissist. I thankfully didn't suffer any SA but physical and mainly emotional abuse. I silently thank my SW's every time a story like this makes the headlines.

SOME.WOMEN.SHOULD.NOT.BE.MOTHERS.

I hope she gets a prison sentence. I hope it does her good and I hope when she is released she is no longer child bearing age.

My Nan moved back home from Spain to bring me up and a bloody good job she did too. I hope CMs other children are getting lots of love and support wherever they are

 

[Emsie]

I've got 2 birth children and recently adopted my third child. My little one is his birth mum's 6th pregnancy and the pregnancy was concealed in the hope she could somehow keep him. Obviously, pregnancy was revealed, hence me having him now
I think about my son's birth mum's mental health on an almost daily basis and I really hope she's surviving. I understand that she loves my son with every fibre of her being like I do, but she could not keep him or his siblings safe and concealing the pregnancy proves even more to me that she could not keep him safe. If she wanted to keep the baby safe the best thing to do is the right thing, even though it hurts your soul. Constances actions were selfish and her actions benefited her alone. that poor baby has paid the ultimate price and no amount of mental health issues will justify that for me.

 

[DeluxeTruffles]

'Sad outcome' doesn't really cut it. It is not sad. It is appalling. Avoidable. Totally unnecessary. Cruel. Barbaric.

They clearly started zig zagging the country to avoid social services who thought they were not fit to be parents. I would put money on them being hard drug addicts. What a couple of scumbags. I hope they both get severe prison sentences.

 

[Polythene Pam]

Constance May have had PND but that doesn’t excuse her partner not seeking help for the welfare of the child.

PND occurs post birth. It doesn't make someone conceal a pregnancy, give birth in a car and then go into hiding.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

There’s probably a really simple explanation on this but does anyone know why the police didn’t release any details about previous children being taken into care and that was why there was such a panic to find them? I can’t help feeling if people knew this baby was def at risk people would’ve been more on the lookout? That poor baby never stood a chance and I can’t find one iota of sympathy for its parents

Sorry, but the clue that this baby was at great risk was the nationwide police appeal to find it and it’s parents. Just pass the information to the police without somehow thinking you’re in any position to judge without (or with) information.
Confidentiality, to protect the innocent children is the reason why their life stories were not plastered over the media for people’s titillation.
Sorry if I’m sounding harsh, but I’m pissed off.

 

[Snoopylouwho]

Sorry for the slight off topic but seeing as how we are sharing opinions / experiences i thought i would add mine.

As i have shared with others on the NB thread I have a daughter who suffered severely with mental health (serious self-harm & suicide attempts). I was CRYING out for help for her and she was failed by CAHMS (like many others are). One incident lead me to call 999, the police / ambulance did not turn up (they were too busy ) which lead me to baracade myself into her bedroom with her to keep her safe for the next 8 hours. Anyway, the police called the next morning to ask if we still needed assistance. I asked then to come out and see me because i needed help in dealing with it. The officer that came was so kind and helpful and he referred me to social services.

I was called by a duty social worker within 2 hours and although she said we didn't need them she put me in touch with people to support my daughter and us as a family!! That help was absolutely invaluable and without that contact i don't think my daughter would be here now

 

[Jumpindesia]

You only have to peek into the social services pages on Facebook full of Mothers proclaiming that they have been treated unfairly to see that they spin their own fantasy narrative and that they 100% believe their own lies. I saw it in one mother who I knew personally (the reason I joined the group to begin with) who swore BLIND social had nabbed her kids completely unfairly and that the house was a mess but it was "just mess, not abuse and they were fed and clothed and loved"...... what she failed to mention was that their clothes were stained and torn and stank of cat piss (you could smell it just walking by them on the school run) and the "just mess" was cat shit and rubbish and mouldy food piled high, she never washed their clothes and they slept on piss covered mattresses on dirty blankets on the floor.

And it could be that she genuinely believe it wasn't that bad because, although their house was a rat infested shithole she didn't hit or abuse her kids like her parents did to her (and she did seem to genuinely love them and feed them and she was an incredibly kind person), and therefore, if she didn't get taken into while being physically abused then her kids shouldn't go into care purely for living in a shitpit of her making.

I know one too...my cousin.. she's always social media harping on about how social services have targeted her and that they want to sell your children on at a profit. Apparently all social workers are on commission to steal babies. All her 'friends ' in the comments agreeing with her saying the same things happened to them ! YET....she doesn't once mention she is a massive crackhead and left her kids unattended to go sell herself for some crack rocks, had random men in the house and let her flat become a trap house! The kids were severely neglected and she spent every penny on drugs! No no no doesn't mention that...mother of the year in her own eyes. Luckily the children are doing okay according to her sister who got guardianship of them as they were put up for adoption! But apparently according to her sister she hasn't even asked about the kids, missed all court dates nor even engaged in any type of support or supervised visits yet posts old pics and tik toks of her kids with a sad song in the background!
Social media is full of these types of women. Don't want to change for their own kids so everyone else must be the problem...

 

[AlanBanan]

Seeming the scandals that social services has had, especially with children dying from neglect and abuse the past few years, even though most children who were the victim were previously known to social services. Yet they weren’t taken from their parents,
and in most cases these were working class people.

What I’m getting at is, how bad was the situation that social workers were gonna to take a baby from an aristocrat? Because if they weren’t taking children from the people who haven’t got a pot to piss in and had numerous visits and allegations towards them, you have to just know that whatever was going on in Constance’s home was even worse than we can think.

 

[Pumpkin84]

Constance May have had PND but that doesn’t excuse her partner not seeking help for the welfare of the child.

He's a wrongen aswell, the woman that he raped, he threatened to kill her children who were asleep in the next room if she didnt do everything he said. Regardless of whether he was 14 at the time and served his sentence, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

 

[InkHeart]

You said it was something visible so I assumed FAS and went to have a look at her photos. There are some features maybe but nothing conclusive or that jumps out at me visually.

I'd be interested to know what condition you were referring to and what makes you think that? I think people on here are able to have sensible conversations and know that a suggestion of something is not demonising a whole group of people.

Yeah, thanks. I'm not trying to be annoying by stoking up rumours or doing a "I know something but I can't tell you!", it's just this case has brought up a lot of feelings for me for many reasons and I can't really get them out anywhere except here. So I'm not writing that comment to provoke a reaction from other people, just trying to write out something that's getting to me, somewhere where I can say it.

If anyone's curious, I'll put it under a spoiler so I'm not clogging up the thread with unfounded speculation, people can decide to ignore it if they choose. I just know how things got so out of hand on the Nicola Bulley case because people were speculating awful things like the partner killed her, or she killed herself, etc and I don't want to start a pile-on of rumours or accusations.

So, before I say this I want to be clear that this is useless speculation, and only my opinion based on personal history. I'm in no way pushing other people to conclude this, and in no way suggesting that she did this awful crime because of it, but it hits close to home for me and seeing her just brought it crashing down on me:

Spoiler: Speculation about mental health

I 100% see psychosis and mania in her facial expressions.

I don't expect most people to see the same thing unless they've been close to one or several people who are very similar to her. But 100% in my mind she has paranoid delusions, probably either schizophrenia or severe bipolar. That fits with her desperation to evade contact with anyone, going to extraordinary lengths to avoid being traced.

Even in pictures where she's smiling and messing about, she looks like people I've known with severe mental illness when they were on a 'high'. Going round the world on hippie adventures 100% fits with this - in my experience, while ghosting their loved ones and leaving everyone at home worried, while they have a manic phase taking drugs and not caring about the consequences of their actions. Her father's statement seemed to imply this was the case. This is also supported by her history of joining the cult. I want to acknowlege that cults entice people in then abuse them, cult members are victims of abuse. But the fact she was there to join the cult shows that she was travelling to far off places in search of something to give her meaning and that she was vulnerable to manipulation.

I believe before this is all done, we will hear that she has a history of [either bipolar or schizophrenia] coupled with drug use, which makes paranoid delusions worse, and history of running away for long stretches of time on drug benders. She's been doing something seriously bad to lose custody of her children, hasn't she?

This fits with how her paranoia might be hereditary, given her father's online ramblings about how they're using aeroplanes to pump chemicals down on us and global warming is a big international hoax etc. It's evidence that she's not just kooky, this is a hereditary condition.

You're right that it has no physical markers, but I 100% recognise all her facial expressions and I think that people who have been close with people prone to psychosis and mania will recognise them too. If you know, you know.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I will say again that coupled with (my speculations of) psychosis and drug use, she has done something heinous. Most people with schizophrenia and bipolar are lovely people who would never do what she did.

I don't want to get into a fight about this, because it's painful to me, so if people disagree, well then they disagree. I'm not trying to spread misinformation, I've been clear that this is an opinion with no factual basis. It's just really weighing on my mind now because of this case. This is what I think will come out in the wash.

 

[InkHeart]

Maybe sounds weird, but I feel so much worse about the poor child's life than their death? I mean, the death is dreadful, but I feel like I'm so much more upset thinking about how she likely only ever knew cold and illness and parents who didn't love her. God, I'm in tears.

 

[EllsBellsWells]

So just to clarify, you think mothers have more of a responsibility to ensure their babies don't come to harm than fathers do? Apologies if that isn't what you meant but it reads that way.

This discussion really highlights the many ways in which we hold women to a higher standard than men. Women have to work harder, put their bodies through hell, live up to unrealistic expectations and then take the lions share of responsibility for stuff. Even more so when horrendous things like this happen. We often say women have a ‘mothers instinct’ without questioning why men don’t have one too- mostly because they get away with doing less.

To be absolutely clear- I am not defending her. But until we know any more then he is just as responsible as she is.

 

[rosieflowers]

I just think it's completely facile to sit here and say they are 'evil' or a 'murdering bitch' and 'you hope they get what's coming to them' and why not throw in 'bring back the death penalty' for good measure

Nobody is trying to excuse what they have done rather I think I and others in this thread are trying to understand how it happened (because it is so far outside of what most people can ever imagine doing) because that's the only way to prevent something similar happening in future.

Whether that would mean more robust support for women in controlling relationships, longer sentences and more tracking for violent sex offenders, the obvious one would be more intensive support for severe mental health issues and a better funded social services .... because all of those issues that we have seen in this case are very real and though this is an extreme case they actually affect millions of mainly women every day. I'm sure most of us know someone affected by e.g. postnatal depression for example

But sitting here and calling her an evil cunt and othering her by saying she is basically not human and not deserving of understanding achieves nothing other than making you feel comfortable, safe and warm in thr knowledge that you would never do anything like that. Even though it's only 'There but for the grace of god go I'

 

[stardust21]

Seeming the scandals that social services has had, especially with children dying from neglect and abuse the past few years, even though most children who were the victim were previously known to social services. Yet they weren’t taken from their parents,
and in most cases these were working class people.

What I’m getting at is, how bad was the situation that social workers were gonna to take a baby from an aristocrat? Because if they weren’t taking children from the people who haven’t got a pot to piss in and had numerous visits and allegations towards them, you have to just know that whatever was going on in Constance’s home was even worse than we can think.

There is a myth that SS jump in at the earliest opportunity just to interfere, but it’s not true.

There are around 80,000 kids in the care system, and bluntly one main reason is because they (rightly) try and keep children with their birth parents for as long as possible, giving as many opportunities as possible. It means that many children aren‘t adopted because they’re too old (blunt but sadly true).

It’s a really tough one, I don’t really know what the right answer is here, but I do know that children are being failed.

For SS to take your child off you at birth there is a really really good reason. There was a reason the police were doing a nationwide man hunt for these people, and it was because they believed the child was at risk.

Just a really sad case I hope they didn’t suffer.

 

[Silverback]

I think there's some serious mental illness going on in both of them and I would speculate that it's likely to a level that is going to make it quite difficult for the experts/police to work out if there is coercive control (going either way, MG on CM or vice versa) or if it's just two deeply unwell people feeding off each other to create their own little reality.

That said, I think it might also be quite difficult to unravel the why of leaving the baby there, eg whether it was the equivalent of leaving them in a pile of rubbish or wanting to have the poor little mite close to them. There's valid arguments both ways and I have a feeling this is one of the cases there might never really be closure on.

I know you meant no harm here but I’m so sick of people putting down appalling behaviour to being ‘mentally ill’. There are millions of people living with mental illness who don’t kill babies. Equally, there are plenty of sane people who kill. It is insulting to the mentally unwell to say things like this.

 

[Aliceboo]

Social services may have allowed her to keep the baby, just without him.

She chose a man over her own child(ren).

The exact details regarding her other children we do not have a right to know about.

My thoughts are with all those in the emergency services who are dealing firsthand with the horror of what has happened.

 

[Pumpkin84]

I see sm is going crazy again, commenting on Constance' fb profile. People did this with Nicola Bulley too, its insane. But people are saying "where is your baby" as if she's gonna message them back while shes in custody telling randomers where her baby is ffs! Some people are so odd

 

[Warriorqueen]

PND occurs post birth. It doesn't make someone conceal a pregnancy, give birth in a car and then go into hiding.

I’m really sorry to be pedantic but I had prenatal depression and ended up in a mental hospital at 7 months pregnant so it does exist. Some of the lunacy I won’t divulge but when you’ve lost your mind, you can do some real crazy shit. Especially if psychosis has kicked in.

 

[Cheezychips]

A merail, but still on topic, I remember when my daughter was stillborn, I'd pass by people who clearly couldn't look after their kids (I grew up in one of the most deprived area of Scotland, left there but went back on occasion as my mum worked there). Usually mums, with multiple young kids in tow looking malnourishment, scruffy, dirty, trailing them around while pushing buggys with small babies. Shouting at them to shut up, hitting them... and I'd look at those babies and cry internally because those mums didn't deserve them. One kid was a little boy about 3, he was obviously blind (you could tell by looking at his eyes, they weren't formed properly, wonder why) and the mum left him standing outside a shop with a baby in a buggy to go in and chat to her druggie mates. I'd have grabbed those kids and given them all the love in the world. It literally tore my soul out.
I would also wonder why SS hadn't removed them, but there were so many families like that so I guess it would have been impossible.



I understand PND, I get that women can suffer coercion, what I don't get is how a small minority of mothers can treat children in that way. I really don't, it's not a feeling I can empathise with. I believe she had her baby under her coat in those photos, I thought that as soon as I seen them. And I also believe the baby probably suffered from withdrawals to drugs, it can cause seizures, muscle spasms, pain, and a baby will cry endlessly. My sister was on a prescribed opiate when pregnant and despise me warning her repeatedly the docs kept giving her it. My niece had to go on morphine when she was born and she cried non stop for many days.

As for leaving your dead baby in a forest... I have no words.

 

[Dogmuck]

Be nice of the “aristocrats” to throw some of their well inherited earned money at the public purse that had over 200 officers looking for their darling toots eh? Tied all his money up in nice little trust funds to ensure they didn’t get stung for inheritance tax but the entire shit show of his daughters life will have already run into hundreds of thousands of pounds of publicly funded agencies even before this case gets underway.