Caitlin Moran #did not stay at home.

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she's at it again. the absolute privilege of this statement that's being shared with little criticism all over twitter. literally millions of women don't have a choice whether they need to go out after dark. cleaners, retail workers, call centre staff, nurses, doctors, teachers, emergency services... and that's without even saying that men just need to bleeping behave

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Wtf is she on about? Women can't go out when it gets dark? 'I can't' when she means 'I chose not to'. Why is she a) denying this choice is not an option for millions of women and b) spreading fear.
I think also contributing to the narrative that if something happens to you when you are out at night somehow it is your fault. You should know better (like Caitlin).
 
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Am I being extraordinarily naive? I have never felt this. I've always thought I have as much right to be somewhere as anyone else. What is she hoping to do with this campaign of fear? Make women stay at home? (unlike her in the first lockdown obvs).
 
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Going to go against the grain and say I completely understand what she’s (clumsily) saying.

It is very privileged, but I think her wider point is that men don’t have to think about this stuff the way we do. Personally, I plan my walks during daylight hours always because it’s safer; the same thought process doesn’t occur to my partner.

Fair enough to anyone who doesn’t feel that low constant hum of protective fear when out and about as a woman, but many of us do and it’s not a bad thing to say so. YES, men should bloody sort themselves out, but that doesn’t mean it’s anti woman to discuss how women might feel safer.

Unfortunately, Caitlin’s writing style is so focused on “I’m mad, me!” moments to shock and amuse that she can’t articulate a good point without coming off as insincere and unrelatable.
 
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Going to go against the grain and say I completely understand what she’s (clumsily) saying.

It is very privileged, but I think her wider point is that men don’t have to think about this stuff the way we do. Personally, I plan my walks during daylight hours always because it’s safer; the same thought process doesn’t occur to my partner.

Fair enough to anyone who doesn’t feel that low constant hum of protective fear when out and about as a woman, but many of us do and it’s not a bad thing to say so. YES, men should bloody sort themselves out, but that doesn’t mean it’s anti woman to discuss how women might feel safer.

Unfortunately, Caitlin’s writing style is so focused on “I’m mad, me!” moments to shock and amuse that she can’t articulate a good point without coming off as insincere and unrelatable.
I have thought about this and think I was hasty in dismissing concerns about being out after dark. Personally I do not get worried about being out on my own, but I can see it is a real and legitimate fear and worry for a lot of women.
I do still wonder why Caitlin says she and other women were scared to be in a park in broad daylight. I am not disputing this but how can we progress from this without having women too scared to go out on their own at all?
 
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I have thought about this and think I was hasty in dismissing concerns about being out after dark. Personally I do not get worried about being out on my own, but I can see it is a real and legitimate fear and worry for a lot of women.
I do still wonder why Caitlin says she and other women were scared to be in a park in broad daylight. I am not disputing this but how can we progress from this without having women too scared to go out on their own at all?
Presumably because of recent developments with the very sad case of Sarah Everard. If we can’t trust the police, that’s a very big problem.

I’m not trying to disagree with you, I promise. I get where you’re coming from but I also get from CM is coming from this time (a rare thing!).
 
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Presumably because of recent developments with the very sad case of Sarah Everard. If we can’t trust the police, that’s a very big problem.

I’m not trying to disagree with you, I promise. I get where you’re coming from but I also get from CM is coming from this time (a rare thing!).
When (in England) the government's Covid advice was changed from 'Stay home' to 'Stay alert', comedian Janey Godley said 'I don't even know what 'stay alert' means? I've been alert all my life. I'm a woman.' It was funny, but true - and sad.
 
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I’m not trying to disagree with you, I promise. I get where you’re coming from but I also get from CM is coming from this time (a rare thing!).
No disagreement 🥰
I agree with you and I got it wrong tbh. My irritation with CM clouded my judgement.
I do get worried and concerned about normalising being afraid to be on your own even in broad daylight.
It is interesting that Caitlin adjusted her behaviour, rather than asking her husband not to go running at night - a man running in the dark could be alarming (not just Pete Paphides I must add).
 
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I agree with you both and yes CM is clumsy as per usual. I certainly don't believe in living in fear either, the world is a scary place and I think if we were to think about all the things that could go wrong we'd probably never leave the house.
 
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You mean like the way you always tell misogynistic John Niven he's not cool including on the tweet about your daughters eating disorder where he went on about 'banging' loads of women?
 

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Running at night doesn't necessarily mean me running when it's dark. I imagine her husband goes for a run every now and again on an evening in the winter.

5-6pm in December is completely different to 10-11pm on the same night. And he'll likely be in fluorescents.

Anyway I think she's a spineless twit who will do anything for fame and to be down with the kids. Instead of brushing off her tweet about her womb and telling those criticising to duck off, she capitulated and deleted all traces of it.
 
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Anyway I think she's a spineless twit who will do anything for fame and to be down with the kids. Instead of brushing off her tweet about her womb and telling those criticising to duck off, she capitulated and deleted all traces of it.
Agreed. I don’t care if people want to call me a TERF or whatever insult but this is about the risks to women FFS. We’re not even allowed one day where we talk about solely that without thinking of other people.
 
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Also consider a lot of what women are talking about - being followed, catcalled and approached by men on the street - are desirable things to trans women. They see this as validation and proof that they "pass".
Oh please.

A woman has been killed and you're moaning about trans women. Why? It's got nothing to do with this killing. Or women (cis and trans) being afraid in public.

she capitulated and deleted all traces of it.
This is not deleting all traces.
You assume it's capitulation, perhaps she tweeted the below because it's what she thinks. I think the woman's a massive twit but assuming all women who are supportive of trans rights and of using inclusive language are being bullied into it is ridiculous.
 
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fwiw, i only meant to point out the privilege in being able to choose not to go out after dark. I fully understand choosing not to if you can and also not being afraid. her original tweet was just so reductive

and while blaming her comments as being made while "on the blob" is kinda disgusting, (because of course, none of us think straight whilst menstruating 🙄) I appreciate the correction and inclusion of trans women and women without wombs

if she truly wants to be the people's feminist, she needs to include all women
 
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Also consider a lot of what women are talking about - being followed, catcalled and approached by men on the street - are desirable things to trans women. They see this as validation and proof that they "pass".
This is a truly, truly horrible and callous thing to say, not to mention innaccurate and potentially dangerous. Particularly now. There's plenty of information on the experiences of trans women and the violence they are subjected to by men freely available on the internet, and a million opportunities for education.
 
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This is a truly, truly horrible and callous thing to say, not to mention innaccurate and potentially dangerous. Particularly now. There's plenty of information on the experiences of trans women and the violence they are subjected to by men freely available on the internet, and a million opportunities for education.
Paris Lees (who I appreciate doesn’t represent all trans women) has written about enjoying being catcalled so it’s not inaccurate in some cases.
 
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One of the nominated books in this year’s Women’s Prize for Fiction is by a trans woman and has elements along the lines being discussed here.
 
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Paris Lees (who I appreciate doesn’t represent all trans women) has written about enjoying being catcalled so it’s not inaccurate in some cases.
As you've said, one person doesn't represent a group. There's plenty of women with dodgy opinions who i would be horrified to be lumped in with. Not to mention being *followed* is not the same as being catcalled.
 
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I don't even know what kind of accent she has (I'm not from the UK) but I imagine it in my head to be generic north London suburb put on accent
 
fwiw, i only meant to point out the privilege in being able to choose not to go out after dark. I fully understand choosing not to if you can and also not being afraid. her original tweet was just so reductive

and while blaming her comments as being made while "on the blob" is kinda disgusting, (because of course, none of us think straight whilst menstruating 🙄) I appreciate the correction and inclusion of trans women and women without wombs

if she truly wants to be the people's feminist, she needs to include all women
duck, I missed the "on the blob" bit!
 
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