Anti Conspiracy Theories #2 when a YouTube video just won’t do!

[Cupcakemum]

The 28 days argument for covid deaths is an odd one. I can see both sides however. There are 100% people who will die as a result of covid19 who haven't tested positive in ages. I personally know of someone who had to be put on ECMO in the end and has since recovered, barely. He will literally never be the same again in terms of his physical health. He hasn't had the virus since last autumn. The fact is they have to some way to identify covid's impact.

That is so sad, and I do agree that many people won't be put down as a covid death event though their illness is because of covid, but many have also been put down as covid when it had nothing to do with the virus.
The outcomes of people who have survived covid absolutely need to be recognised.

I have to ask though, there are women with fibromyalgia that are fighting to be recognised, as still are people with MS, or even Crohnes - so after decades of these people fighting to be acknowledged, why is all the focus on covid/long covid? All these other 'invisible' illnesses are ignored and it's not fair.

To put my tin foil hat on, you could argue that the governments need these figures so they can get on with the larger agenda....

Take the tin foil hat off and it leaves you with the original question of why would everything else be ignored and not anything to do with covid and why do only covid each figures matter?

Why is it as it stands do only covid deaths matter and not suicide rates, or people that have waited all year for a cancer diagnosis to then find out its terminal?

Why can we easily accept someone died of covid, but not even dare to question that someone has died from the vaccine?

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

That is so sad, and I do agree that many people won't be put down as a covid death event though their illness is because of covid, but many have also been put down as covid when it had nothing to do with the virus.
The outcomes of people who have survived covid absolutely need to be recognised.

I have to ask though, there are women with fibromyalgia that are fighting to be recognised, as still are people with MS, or even Crohnes - so after decades of these people fighting to be acknowledged, why is all the focus on covid/long covid? All these other 'invisible' illnesses are ignored and it's not fair.

To put my tin foil hat on, you could argue that the governments need these figures so they can get on with the larger agenda....

Take the tin foil hat off and it leaves you with the original question of why would everything else be ignored and not anything to do with covid and why do only covid each figures matter?

Why is it as it stands do only covid deaths matter and not suicide rates, or people that have waited all year for a cancer diagnosis to then find out its terminal?

Why can we easily accept someone died of covid, but not even dare to question that someone has died from the vaccine?

Who has said that suicide rates do not matter? It is incredibly sad that so many have missed out or waited the best part of a year for treatment.

 

[Moth]

It took a long while to understand all the effects of Covid-19. Possibly we don't understand them all yet. This means that particularly in the early months some people will have died as a result of Covid-19 without it being realised. It also meant that the advice on dealing with the virus changed over time as our knowledge grew.

I don't see anybody denying that serious reactions and some deaths have occurred in people who have been given the vaccines shortly before. That is not evidence that the vaccines caused the deaths but merely a start point for investigation. Just as it took time to understand the virus, it will take time to investigate potential side-effects of the vaccine but as we have already seen, when there is sufficient evidence, the advice on vaccines will change as our knowledge grows.

Trying to equate the number of deaths from Covid-19 and the potential number of deaths caused by the vaccines is at best misleading. So is the never ending stream of assertions from people that 'know' that the vaccine caused this or that reaction.

Covid-19 is the most serious health crises to face the world for over 100 years. The death toll is horrific but unchecked it could have been catastrophic. Yet we have people arguing that it is being given 'unfair' priority.

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

It took a long while to understand all the effects of Covid-19. Possibly we don't understand them all yet. This means that particularly in the early months some people will have died as a result of Covid-19 without it being realised. It also meant that the advice on dealing with the virus changed over time as our knowledge grew.

I don't see anybody denying that serious reactions and some deaths have occurred in people who have been given the vaccines shortly before. That is not evidence that the vaccines caused the deaths but merely a start point for investigation. Just as it took time to understand the virus, it will take time to investigate potential side-effects of the vaccine but as we have already seen, when there is sufficient evidence, the advice on vaccines will change as our knowledge grows.

Trying to equate the number of deaths from Covid-19 and the potential number of deaths caused by the vaccines is at best misleading. So is the never ending stream of assertions from people that 'know' that the vaccine caused this or that reaction.

Covid-19 is the most serious health crises to face the world for over 100 years. The death toll is horrific but unchecked it could have been catastrophic. Yet we have people arguing that it is being given 'unfair' priority.

Can you be the spokeperson for this thread?

 

[Moth]

Who has said that suicide rates do not matter? It is incredibly sad that so many have missed out or waited the best part of a year for treatment.

Again somebody asserting that these issues are being ignored does not make it true. The Nuffield Trust explained of mortality rates includes the acknowledgement that ...

" ... it remains possible that some of the extra deaths may occur as a result of people not seeking help for other illnesses, or because the NHS stopped planned treatment – which includes care for life-threatening conditions such as cancer, as well as routine check-ups.
In addition, the lockdown response to the pandemic will have affected the risk of death from other causes – from road traffic accidents through to falls and injuries, drug and alcohol related deaths, and suicide. The impact of these wider changes won’t be clear for some time".

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

Again somebody asserting that these issues are being ignored does not make it true. The Nuffield Trust explained of mortality rates includes the acknowledgement that ...

" ... it remains possible that some of the extra deaths may occur as a result of people not seeking help for other illnesses, or because the NHS stopped planned treatment – which includes care for life-threatening conditions such as cancer, as well as routine check-ups.
In addition, the lockdown response to the pandemic will have affected the risk of death from other causes – from road traffic accidents through to falls and injuries, drug and alcohol related deaths, and suicide. The impact of these wider changes won’t be clear for some time".

I think you quoted the wrong person. I already know all of the above that you mention.

 

[Moth]

Can you be the spokeperson for this thread?

Sorry if I got a bit carried away!

I think you quoted the wrong person. I already know all of the above that you mention.

I was just backing up your perfectly reasonable response.

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

Sorry if I got a bit carried away!

Not at all! Everything you said is exactly what I wanted to say but I’d get carried away and end up writing an essay.

 

[The King in the North]

When people throw the suicides and cancer treatment delays, it's like they're trying to make the people who think COVID-19 dangerous feel guilty. I mean but then completely ignore that lockdown has reduced some deaths, it's reduced emissions, therefore people are not going into hospital for breathing troubles. We locked down to save the NHS, because of lack of beds and equipment, if we didn't lock down, the NHS would have been in a worse state.

 

[Lisdiz]

When people throw the suicides and cancer treatment delays, it's like they're trying to make the people who think COVID-19 dangerous feel guilty. I mean but then completely ignore that lockdown has reduced some deaths, it's reduced emissions, therefore people are not going into hospital for breathing troubles. We locked down to save the NHS, because of lack of beds and equipment, if we didn't lock down, the NHS would have been in a worse state.

It’s not to make anyone feel guilty, but to highlight the other lives that have been lost.
People dying of cancer because of treatments being stopped is another one.
It’s just another pain point of heartbreak that’s occurred over the last year.
Its balanced perspective I am personally searching for.
I guess those that lost their lives because of locking down also deserve to be acknowledged and have their lives matter.
I sense you do value that loss of life, and it’s not you or anyone else on here that it’s being aimed at. It’s the media and Government.
So many people are hurting, so many people are struggling. So many people have lost loved ones to covid, so many have lost loved ones due to lockdown side effects.
Personally, as a society, we need a massive group hug and to come together with support, acceptance and understanding over the individual experience within the collective one we have all just been through.
Same ocean, different boats.

 

[The King in the North]

It’s not to make anyone feel guilty, but to highlight the other lives that have been lost.
People dying of cancer because of treatments being stopped is another one.
It’s just another pain point of heartbreak that’s occurred over the last year.
Its balanced perspective I am personally searching for.
I guess those that lost their lives because of locking down also deserve to be acknowledged and have their lives matter.
I sense you do value that loss of life, and it’s not you or anyone else on here that it’s being aimed at. It’s the media and Government.
So many people are hurting, so many people are struggling. So many people have lost loved ones to covid, so many have lost loved ones due to lockdown side effects.
Personally, as a society, we need a massive group hug and to come together with support, acceptance and understanding over the individual experience within the collective one we have all just been through.
Same ocean, different boats.

Oh, it is to make someone feel guilty. It's like a competition between Covid19 and other deaths that have been caused due to the lockdowns. If we didn't have the lockdowns, I'd hate to see what position would be in. When people mention the Covid19, people will usually throw the other deaths. To control a virus, we need to lockdown, and then issue the vaccines, it seems like nobody can offer a different solution to that, other than locking down.


To avoid another pandemic, we need to invest in healthcare, we need to become a cleaner nation, a healthier nation and we need to start with the possibility of having some workers working from home. We have the worst sick pay in the Europe, so many people who are ill, go into work, spreading germs and virus.

 

[Oohthedrama]

It’s not to make anyone feel guilty, but to highlight the other lives that have been lost.
People dying of cancer because of treatments being stopped is another one.
It’s just another pain point of heartbreak that’s occurred over the last year.
Its balanced perspective I am personally searching for.
I guess those that lost their lives because of locking down also deserve to be acknowledged and have their lives matter.
I sense you do value that loss of life, and it’s not you or anyone else on here that it’s being aimed at. It’s the media and Government.
So many people are hurting, so many people are struggling. So many people have lost loved ones to covid, so many have lost loved ones due to lockdown side effects.
Personally, as a society, we need a massive group hug and to come together with support, acceptance and understanding over the individual experience within the collective one we have all just been through.
Same ocean, different boats.

this is so well put.

 

[The King in the North]

It's scary that people live and breathe conspiracy theories, like every day, searching the internet for information, must have nothing better to do. And this isn't a dig at anyone on the CT thread, this a general remark on conspiracy theorists.

 

[thegirlscout]

Oh, it is to make someone feel guilty. It's like a competition between Covid19 and other deaths that have been caused due to the lockdowns.

I’ve lost someone very dear due to Covid and on my Facebook I don’t feel like I can mention him at all because a lot of people I know have this mentality that it’s a competition. That one cause of death is lesser compared to the other.

 

[Lucyloulucy]

I’ve lost someone very dear due to Covid and on my Facebook I don’t feel like I can mention him at all because a lot of people I know have this mentality that it’s a competition. That one cause of death is lesser compared to the other.

I absolutely relate to this. I lost my dad to Covid, he was early 60’s with no underlying health conditions. Comments like “but are you sure he died OF Covid and not WITH” are infuriating. Yes I’m bleeping sure.

 

[The King in the North]

I absolutely relate to this. I lost my dad to Covid, he was early 60’s with no underlying health conditions. Comments like “but are you sure he died OF Covid and not WITH” are infuriating. Yes I’m bleeping sure.

A girl I know had the same experience as you two Posted on Facebook, to let anyone that her grandfather had died, and she wouldn't be active on Facebook, and most of the comments, from her "friends" even one family member, all said, "I don't think he died of Covid19, well he had a bad heart, didn't he? She ended up taking the post down.

 

[thegirlscout]

A girl I know had the same experience as you two Posted on Facebook, to let anyone that her grandfather had died, and she wouldn't be active on Facebook, and most of the comments, from her "friends" even one family member, all said, "I don't think he died of Covid19, well he had a bad heart, didn't he? She ended up taking the post down.

Someone said to me via messenger that it was ‘sad he died of Covid’ but what about ‘all those suicides due to the lockdown?’
I...I...I just don’t know what to say to that. Ended up blocking them.

 

[Trixiebum]

Really? People are actually saying this now? So nobody dies of Covid, according to them, but everyone who dies does so because of the vaccine?!

Ironically Nikki WAS actually a casualty of the pandemic; her Mum has said that the lockdowns exacerbated her ill health and had a terrible effect on her. Being unable to go to the gym, being unable to travel abroad to see friends (something she lived for and did regularly) and feeling so isolated and lonely all brought things to a head.

But the CTs always have to take things too far, using a grain of truth from a situation and then blowing it up out of all proportion, inventing scenarios to suit their own agenda. And even the tragic death of a woman who has battled anorexia for 30 years it seems isn't off limits.

Living in a climate of fear is actually one of the most detrimental things that is happening to us all right now. That and social isolation. Yet the CTs want us to fear everything and to distrust the only route out of this situation (ie: mass vaccination). So, if they have their way we'll all refuse to be vaccinated which means more lockdowns and people spending more and more time alone in their homes, isolated and cut off from society.

The anti-vax rhetoric is totally irresponsible and dangerous as it is so easy to scare people into not having it. I don't look at the Conspiracy Theories forum usually but had a quick glance earlier and saw stories about the vaccine causing breast lumps and heavy bleeding for women. Doctors apparently telling people that if they have breast lumps and have had the vaccine that they should delay having a mammogram for a few months. How the hell does that help anyone?! I clicked straight away from the page as it makes me angry and also, as an anxiety sufferer, I don't need any of their tit in my head.

See, I would consider myself quite a sensible person but one of my issues is health anxiety. I have been firmly in the pro-vaccine camp from the beginning, I laugh off all the crap about microchips etc but I'll admit to having a slight wobble at the news of the AZ having a possible link to blood clots. Even though my husband has had his first AZ and my Dad has had both with no side effects I do worry whether I will be unlucky.

I guess what I'm saying (in an over-long rant for which I apologise) is that I'm seeing that CTs will use anything they can to persuade people into their way of thinking and tapping into the fear of illness and death is the most insidious way of trying to frighten people into joining their cult.

I have had both my vaccines (NHS worker), had my second 10 days ago. Coincidentally I have found a lump in my breast. My GP is seeing me in 2 weeks to see if it goes down as it could be vaccine related. I have looked this up and reputable sources are saying it’s a thing as lymph nodes could swell. I’m hoping it’s nothing to worry about and is just a temporary side effect from the vaccine. I would rather that than the alternative

 

[Catsontoast]

I have had both my vaccines (NHS worker), had my second 10 days ago. Coincidentally I have found a lump in my breast. My GP is seeing me in 2 weeks to see if it goes down as it could be vaccine related. I have looked this up and reputable sources are saying it’s a thing as lymph nodes could swell. I’m hoping it’s nothing to worry about and is just a temporary side effect from the vaccine. I would rather that than the alternative

Hope you're OK and it's nothing to worry about. Lymph node swelling would make sense, I can totally see the logic in this, so hopefully that's all it is. Keeping my fingers crossed for you, stay safe and well xx

 

[Oohthedrama]

Someone said to me via messenger that it was ‘sad he died of Covid’ but what about ‘all those suicides due to the lockdown?’
I...I...I just don’t know what to say to that. Ended up blocking them.

its really disturbing it’s come to this, the one thing I’m sick of seeing is, when hospital admissions are announced people on social media will in seconds reply... but are they in there BECAUSE OF covid or are they in with a broken leg and they’ve tested positive with no symptoms.


but on the other hand I know a lot who have struggled and passed because of lockdown, suicides, one cancer diagnosis that was only caught because he was blue lighted to hospital after nearly a year of postponed appointments, older people who just gave up on life because that had no contact with the family or friends, kids who are really really struggling mentally from lockdown.

there are no winners.
From the telegraph

Nearly half of UK cancer patients who caught Covid have died, a 50 per cent higher rate than counterparts in Europe, a study suggests.
Researchers found that British patients were less likely to receive cancer treatment during the pandemic, and less likely to be given the best lifesaving therapies once struck down with the virus.
The worse death rate also reflects the fact that British cancer sufferers tended to be less fit and healthy generally.
Published in the European Journal of Cancer, the study included 1,392 patients from the UK, Italy, Spain, France, Belgium and Germany, tracking their progress between Feb 27 and Sept 10 last year.
It found that 30 days after a Covid diagnosis, 40.34 per cent of the UK cancer patients had died, compared with 26.5 per cent of European patients.
After six months the proportion had risen to 47.6 per cent of the UK cohort, compared with 33.3 per cent of the European.
Scientists at Imperial College London blamed disastrous guidance from the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence, which recommended pausing cancer treatment for many patients in order to stop them catching the virus in hospital. Subsequent analysis has shown that people in need of chemotherapy, immunotherapy and surgery fared better on average if they continued with treatment on the normal timetable, even if they caught Covid-19.
Dr David Pinato, who led the new study, said: “This is the first study showing UK cancer patients were more likely to die following a Covid-19 diagnosis compared with European patients.
“We knew the UK had one of the highest deaths rates from Covid-19. However, before Covid-19 the UK already lagged behind Europe in terms of cancer care, with the UK having lower survival rates from many cancers.
“We need to prioritise cancer patients in the UK, as this study suggests they are extremely vulnerable – more so than in many other countries.”
The researchers found equal proportions between Britain and EU of complicated Covid-19 cases, rates of intensive care admission and use of ventilation.
But British cancer patients were less likely to receive anti-covid-19 therapies, including corticosteroids, antivirals and interleukin-6 antagonists.
Dr Alessio Cortellini, who coauthored the paper, said: “UK cancer patients tended to be older than European patients, were more likely to be male, and have other conditions such as obesity or diabetes.
“All of these factors may have contributed to the increased mortality rate, and show why cancer patients should be prioritised for Covid-19 vaccination.”