gender discussion : Most liked Posts

Ensay said:

And I know this thread is a bit of an echo chamber. I usually try and sit on my fingers when reading stuff I disagree with here, as I know it'll lead to a pile-on, but sometimes I can't help myself! I'll stop now, though.

Click to expand...

I don’t join in with this thread much, and don’t do any real life GC stuff, as I’m not terfy enough for the proper terfs (I believe in a very small proportion of people being “tru trans”) but I’m way too terfy for the TRA side (because I recognise that there are numerous cases where predators have adopted a trans identity to get easy access to predate on women and children and traumatise them, and I know the importance of single sex spaces to allow women to thrive in patriarchal society). But I’m adding my 2p worth here today because you’re coming across as increasingly disingenuous. It’s not an “echo chamber” here, it’s a bunch of people from a variety of backgrounds (including other gay men!) who all recognise the mission creep that’s causing harm to women, children, and homosexual people of either sex. You and others like you are just ignoring us when we’re explaining what the problems are and why we think it’s important to maintain single sex spaces and activities. You’re just ignoring us.

It’s plain rude, if nothing else, to refuse to listen to us, to actually hear what we’re saying, when we’re earnestly sharing our experiences and concerns. Rude to dismiss those concerns as an echo chamber.

Maybe you could think about why so many different types of people have the same opinions on this? It’s not because we’re ignorant - quite the opposite, I’d suggest that many of us probably know far more about the dangers of predatory males for example, than those who are determined to pretend there is no possible danger in eliminating boundaries for women and children.

It’s also disconcerting for me - a bisexual woman who’s always had gay and lesbian friends, who’s seen the abuse they’ve been subjected to, even from their own families - that so many people want to handwave away conversations about the inherent homophobia in so much of the trans movement. It’s just not right to try and guilt or gaslight homosexual people into accepting people with opposite-sex bodies as potential partners. And please don’t pretend for a moment that isn’t happening because I’ll come back with a hundred links - when we’re at the stage where there are instructional videos for gay men to learn to eat pussy, when lesbians are being taught mindfulness techniques to learn to receive penetration with a “female” penis, then surely even the most tone deaf trans activist needs to accept there’s a problem here? It’s sick, in my opinion, I grew up in the 80s and 90s and 2000s, and gay and lesbian people were finally gaining the right to simply be gay and lesbian and get on with their lives. As a teenager and in my twenties I joined my friends at Pride to support them in trying to get that acceptance and understanding (and you know what, even my working-class observant-Christian parents were supportive of me going to Pride, they would give me the money for my one-day travelcard before I was working/could afford my own train tickets) - and that hard won right is being shat all over by the trans movement insisting that males are women now and females are men now. I know lesbian uni students who literally don’t go out to anything social at uni now because every single time, they get hit on by males larping as lesbians and they don’t know how to deal with it without getting cancelled in their social circles. The harm being done is real, in those cases to young women who don’t yet have the confidence to say no.

And I would need to do a whole separate post to go through the harm being done to young autistic women and survivors of SA by this; I’m autistic/a survivor and would 100% have been sucked into it if I was a teenager, and I’ve cried so many times reading accounts from detransitioners because I know full well that could easily have been me, so I really really feel their agony.

It’s awful and it’s even more awful that there are people actively pretending there’s no harm in any of this.

This thread is a wide cross section of people, some of us old school lefties (I’m in that bracket fwiw), some of us pretty much tories, some of us libertarian, some of us authoritarian, some of us completely apolitical. There are mums, dads, child free people, grandparents, aunts, uncles. There are straight, bi, gay, and lesbian people. This thread - and gender critical dialogue generally - is not populated by people who think the same and won’t talk to anyone they disagree with. It’s populated by people who see where the trans activists’ focus has taken us and who are alarmed, not least by the lack of discussion and debate on the fundamental issues that has been permitted until very recently. We need to be allowed to talk about it and about why it’s important to acknowledge that trans activism isn’t some harmless movement.

So with the greatest respect to you, if you’re going to continually post on this thread from the opposite viewpoint to the majority of posters, at least give us the respect of being open and honest about your stance, instead of being disingenuous and sealioning about it all. I have agreed with some things you’ve posted elsewhere, including on the LGB thread, so please don’t make the mistake of thinking I’m anti-you - I just don’t like falseness. I don’t think many of us who post or lurk on this thread do. Please just be more real and genuine here and you’ll get more respect, even if it is by way of a ferocious disagreement. If you’re confident in your right-ness then you’ll have no problem defending it.

Carry on TERFing everyone!

I've been dipping into this thread in and off, I've never seen myself as particularly gender critical, and most definitely not a Terf.

My feeling has always been, a man is a man and a woman a woman, but if Harry wants to don a frock and call himself Sally, as long as it doesn't effect me, let him crack on

Over the last year, 18 months or so my feelings have changed.
I'm not sure if it's old age (approaching 43 ) making me less tolerant or what it is but I'm becoming really aware of how trans rights, and appealing to the trans community is seen as the most important thing irregardless of anything else and even its not needed. And they are trampling over woman and rights they have fought for to do this it's wrong.

I don't want to share toilets, changing rooms with men, I don't want to be trying bras on and see a cock bulge. Woman should not have to feel uncomfortable to appease a few

Men don't menstruate. They don't need period products. Woman used to have to hide away at that time, as it was seen as dirty and gross to talk about. There was a limited range of uncomfortable impractical products. That's changing after years and years of woman innovating and fighting for change, and guess what men now want a go..

Men are biologically stronger than woman, they should not be allowed to join in sports. It's a fact.

I don't need the places I buy my toothpaste, trainers or tomatoes from to be all political about trans rights. I just want to follow them of social media to be advised or new products or sales not anything else

Infact so many companies, my employer included have gone on the trans bandwagon. I'd ignored the suggestion we used pronouns, but the other month our PC/laptop screen savers were changed to a pink/blue montage highlighting "our" support for trans causes, internal communications magazines are banging on about trans "issues" far more regularly than is representive of the minute amount trans people that are employed the company.
Its incessant. I declined the new rainbow lanyard (the one with the pale blue, pink, brown triangle on the standard rainbow) and was told it was expected of the management team to wear them... I didn't, and haven't, but have been asked a few times why, and if I need one.



This is really waffly.. But is suppose what I'm saying is I'm now one of you

This was posted on Mumsnet 6 years ago

I work in midwifery and my admiration for women grows every day. Their physical and mental strength, their tenacity, bravery and their sheer bloody mindedness, not to mention their unwavering determination to deliver their baby safely, no matter what the cost to themselves, never ceases to amaze me. I've met women who have had very challenging births, women who have had multiple losses, women who have stopped their own medical treatment in order to protect their unborn children. They are selfless, resilient, and bloody wonderful.

Do we really think that men will have the same feelings as women? I know that men love their children deeply, I see this every day in my own family. But that strong mothering instinct is only seen in females. Putting on a dress and make-up, applying for a "certificate" and having Frankenstein surgery to "grow" a cervix, uterus and eventually, a pregnancy, doesn't make a man into a mother, any more than wearing a fur coat makes me a tiger.

I'm a huge supporter of organ donation, I don't care if an alcoholic gets my liver, or if a drug addict gets my kidney, everyone deserves a second chance, but I'm absolutely not supporting this. And as mentioned by other posters, why are huge resources being thrown at a solution for a very rare condition, when it could instead be spent on, say, endometriosis research, which would benefit thousands of women?

Welcome to TERF Club!



The trans rights movement is a homophobic, misogynistic movement that preys on vulnerable children and adults.

Saw this on twitter/X made me laugh and think of this thread. Dean Cain

“I choose to approach life with an open mind, with love and compassion for all humans”

On another thread…

“Never has Alice Fucking Evans needed to die more than now”.

Nice

Lol

Welcome to the new thread everyone

All new posters are welcome but please remember that this is a gender critical thread.

I’m so angry. There’s a sign up at the Edinburgh protest about “stop killing black trans women”

Who is this directed to? Because I’ve not heard of 1 POC trans woman being killed.

I am a black woman and I am so damn disgusted that the only time anyone seems to care about black women is when there’s “trans” infront of it
Where’s the fucking sign for the inadequate maternity care for black women, the statistics that black women receive the worst level of healthcare support, the fact that black women are the least likely to appear in the % of top earners in the uk.
I am so sick of hearing how the only victims are “trans women” because at this point I out and bad do not give a fucking shit, I care about the women subject to violence who could end up in a refuge or safe house with a man in a dress, I care about the women told theyre “Phobic“ because they want to be called a mother, not a womb owner. Sorry for the rant I’m fuming

mallethead said:

Hi everyone. I’m new on here and have yet to catch up with the whole thread but I really felt like I needed a space to discuss my feelings on the what’s happening with gender in society at the moment as I feel like it’s hard to discuss my POV in person without being accused of being “transphobic.”
I guess to start I want to say I’m not transphobic in any way shape or form and I do genuinely believe gender dysphoria is a real issue for a small number of people and I support these peoples right to get help. I also would fight for the rights of anyone who felt they weren’t being treated equal. At the same time I think the gender discussion in society has taken a turn and is actually doing more harm than good for those who are genuinely trans.
I grew up in the late 90s / early 00s with a lot of tomboy friends and some feminine boys, some in their adult life turned out to be gay, some didn’t. I feel like today feminine boys and tomboys are instantly assumed to be trans or to have some sort of issue with their gender and it baffles me. I love seeing people express their identity in different ways through clothes, makeup etc. but feel like how people express themselves is being intertwined with their gender/sex and actually promoting traditional gender roles rather than going against them like they claim to.
I’m a woman (I refuse to use the term cis for myself, sorry not sorry) and I am so confused by people who say women are simply people who internally feel like women. I’m just like… can someone tell me what that feels like cause after 30 years living as a woman I’m not even sure I could explain it. A woman is what I am not who I am.
in a society that has become so accepting I find it odd how people can’t just express their identity in any way they please cause as I mentioned I feel the current narrative actually promotes traditional gender roles / traits rather than squash them I.e. biological men wearing dresses and claiming to be trans or non binary because dresses aren’t traditionally masculine. Wearing a dress and makeup is not what makes me a woman. I actually hate dresses!!
I have so many thoughts on this and the above might seem wishy washy and not thought out properly but I’ve just so many thoughts about it! But I am going to end with this… A good friend of mine (male) went to the doctor last year with some problems- no sex drive, weight gain, depressive episodes and overall feeling shit. He was miserable for a long time and I saw him suffer through it. After blood tests etc. he was diagnosed with a small tumor, which is not life threatening, on his pituitary gland resulting in his estrogen levels spiking and causing all his symptoms. Immediately he had to to go on meds to shrink the tumour and get his body back to “normal”. The doctordiscussed the potential side effects if he had have ignored his symptoms and had his estrogen levels continue to rise including increased risk of cancer, depression etc. This immediately made me think of biological men that are put on female hormones long term to fix their issues with their gender and I thought surely this isn’t good long term. And on the flip side is even worse for women considering testosterone is far more potent as a hormone. It’s scary that cross sex hormones are given to people indefinitely but not enough is actually discussed about the long term side effects. And they’re giving them to teens… it’s a scary time.

Click to expand...

Hello and welcome to Terf Ville

You are correct that cross sex hormones will eventually lead to a huge rise in cancers. Most men taking oestrogen are buying it on the internet, so they have no idea what they are taking.

A handy timeline for you (I am a good few years into being aware of what is going on, so I may sound harsh to you):
You cannot change your sex. No, amount of cosmetic surgery or taking cross-sex hormones does anything more than make you a hairy women with a deep voice or a eunuch with a bad shoes.

Trans rights are not human rights. They have more rights that the rest of us (try firing one!). What TRA's are demanding are privileges they don't deserve. These demands impose on women's rights and make women's spaces mixed sex, which is against the Equality Act 2010.

When the GRA (2004) was implemented to allow men (at that time it was only men who wanted to do this, these men were known as transsexuals) to lie on their birth certificates, passports, driving licences etc to effectively become women in law, no women's groups had a seat at the table, only LGB and TRA's - all men. The report stated that by allowing men access to women's single sex spaces would put women at risk of loss of privacy, dignity and increase the risk of assault, but it was accepted that the risk to women was appropriate to meet these male demands.

When on 2010, gender was added to the Equality Act, again, no women's groups were at the table for this consultation, but this essentially opened up self ID as we know it today, however there wasn't the gender shit show we have now so it remained under the radar. This addition of gender to the EA, allowed trans people to be able to self ID on their government documentation and be treated the same as their chosen gender. Self ID is already in place for everywhere but their birth certificates.

Just after the EA was brought in the NHS added it's Annex B, allowing any male saying they were female to be placed on women's wards. Women have been raped and assaulted and then lied to by the NHS and the police by being told that no men were on the ward, when there was. (This is well documented and has been discussed in the House of Lords).

In 2014 gay marriage was legalised and LGB people had exactly the same rights as everyone else (as it should be).

In 2015 political lobbying group Stonewall was paid large sums of money to add T to the LGB. Stonewall had done great work for the LGB community in the UK and across Europe and was already well placed to push the T agenda. From there on Gender Ideology was pushed in all government organisations, including education, the police, NHS, BBC, local government. Which explains the explosion of this generation of children saying they are trans and also the disappearance of anorexia in young girls.

The past 2 years has seen a massive rise in men saying they are TW. There is no such thing as a trans woman. Try not to use their language it tricks the mind, there are only trans identified men (TiM's). They require 'validation' from women for their adopted persona because they are autogynephiles (AGP). Basically, men who get turned on by the thought of themselves as women (euphoria) - Dylan Mulvaney, Eddie Izzard, Wil(Lia)m Thomas are AGP's. AGP is not an innocent fetish, it is because of the AGP's that women are no longer allowed to speak our truth and are being silenced, we must validate and be complicit with their sexual fetish.

The huge rise in trans identified people, especially under 18's and AGP's absolutely comes from the 2020/2021 lockdowns.

Common slurs to silence you will be:
Transphobia / trans phobic - everything is - even eye rolling
TERF - Trans exclusionary radical feminist - yawn
Right wing - you are automatically right wing if you don't agree with TRA's
Far right wing - when you have fully peaked and your terfness is showing like a belisha beacon
Dog whistle - When you speak facts - TRA's don't like facts
These are the most marginalised groups - No, no they are not, they have huge power and money behind them. There have been zero murders in the UK of trans people for being trans since 2008. Women are murdered at a rate of 3-4 a week. Children under 12 months are even more at risk. These absurd lies plied by Stonewall are taken from south American countries, not the UK, Europe or the US.

2023 - Women still do not have a seat at the table for women's rights with regards to consultations with the government, which tells you how women are regarded among the political class in the UK.

Women's rights are our human rights. We have never achieved equality.
Trans rights are male privileges. They have achieved so much in such a short amount of time because they are men. No other reason.

They want to tell you that for your whole life as a girl and woman, you need to be alert to the danger of male violence. Don’t walk alone, don’t wear that outfit, don’t accept that lift, carry pepper spray, don’t give him “the wrong idea”, learn self defence, boys will be boys, men just can’t control their temper, men in positions of authority hold a power over you that can be abused routinely. Most of us will have enough lived experience of it to know the threat is real, in differing levels of severity. Across the globe you will see it in extremities- forced marriage, FGM, rape as a war weapon, not being allowed out unaccompanied, not allowed to study, work, drive.

Yet they want you to believe that as soon as a man says he is a woman he is magically no longer posing any threat to you at all. No, he is your equal. He can win your award, he can be applauded for beating you in sports and at protests. He will be protected by every politician, institution and business. He is braver than you, more vulnerable than you. He needs your approval, praise and adoration. He will mock and mimic you and he will tell you how you should think and when you are wrong. He can have your “lived experience”. It’s a dangerous lie. It’s the breakdown of safeguarding. It’s the break down of reality and truth. It’s the same fight over and over again.

Thanks for starting a new thread @JAR21

Elle said:

Oh if you're genuinely curious I'm happy to answer. Love Mae Martin and searched for them on here to see if they had a thread. Unfortunately it took me to your ignorant post.

You're a lesbian? Even more baffling to me that someone in the queer community can't comprehend the concept of identifying as non-binary. Mae never identified as lesbian as far as I know but even if they did, sexuality is fluid.

You're concerned with lesbian visibility? Imagine how non-binary people feel.

Must be restrictive and miserable living such a black and white, unforgiving existence.

I'm not virtue signalling I just take issue with people being willfully ignorant.

Click to expand...

I see, so you jumped into a thread without any context, found a post and jumped on that.

We can safely say from your posts that you didn’t realise a lesbian was writing about why Mae Martin basically posing as a lesbian / failing to correct the assumption she was one, might be very annoying, so case closed there. Just for information, lesbians are allowed to talk about this and other things that affect them, without you policing this (whether you’re a lesbian yourself or not).

As for the gender identity element, it isn’t “living a black and white existence” to recognise biological sex. If you think it is “boring” in some way to be aware that being female is real and quite meaningful and you can’t identify out of nor into it, this thread might not float your boat, though in my experience genuine exchanges of views here are welcome. We can all of course play look, look, I’ve found a post that’s wrong! — and engage in “I’m the most open-minded, the best observer of pronouns etc” if that’s our choice.

What I find boring is acting like coming up with or banging on about endless new identities is in some way edgy or modern or more intelligent or worthy than noting what biological reality means for all of us but especially girls and women, or that it’s somehow further forward than the idea Mae Martin can present and act as gender-non-conforming as she wants, or not, and still she is a woman. What’s truly tedious is acting like most people aren’t a little bit “non-binary” once it is clarified what “non-binary” actually means, to the point that it’s basically a pointless term. One concerning part being that that doesn’t stop top surgery for women being part of the expected look once this very freeing identity rolls around, whereas of course men don’t really have to do anything.

In the 80s, we all knew Boy George was a man. In the 90s, Eddie Izzard knew he was, and a transvestite too, and how honest of him. We seem to have gone backwards now. Gender ideology isn’t open-mindedness writ large but simple sexism. “Gender criticals” have very diverse and fluid ideas of gender in comparison to those who think it’s possible to “feel” like a woman or not (even if you are one), they (we, let me get the pronouns right!) just always recognise biological sex.

Earlier this year I had a Green party member canvassing at my door. She asked for my vote, but I said, sorry but no chance, as you keep allowing men into single my sex spaces...!

She had the absolute gall to roll her eyes at me and say, isn't it more important that your bins are emptied...gesturing at my bins.

I said, did you really just reduce my safety and dignity to less than a bin?

To be fair she looked shocked and started mumbling nonsense as I slammed the door.

Anyway, I just wanted to report back to you guys that I'm fighting the GC fight down here in Brighton!

GladiatorReady said:

I was looking at the instagram page of that awful 'yeet those teets' surgeon - just scrolling through it is harrowing.

Sidhbh Gallagher MD (@drsidhbhgallagher) • Instagram photos and videos

38K Followers, 2,566 Following, 2,484 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Sidhbh Gallagher MD (@drsidhbhgallagher)

www.instagram.com

She'll have made an absolute fortune doing this, and any patient who realise decades down the line that they made a mistake? Too bad, so sad I guess

Click to expand...

She's a butcher. This is going to be a scandal in a few years' time. There'll be documentaries about how she was allowed to get away with it.

I was thinking before about how I feel as an openly "gender critical" feminist (or as I like to call myself, a feminist). Women experience a lot of being dismissed and told to shut up and having our experiences diminished and being told what we are and what we think - men have been the arbiter of womanhood since time immemorial. But I have never felt so "invisible" and felt such outright misogyny as I do now.

I'm a 36 year old, compassionate, left wing, working class woman who has spent her entire life actively in favour of LGBT rights, constantly being told I'm a privileged bigot. I think gender non-conformity is normal, and these nutters think it needs to be treated with hormones and surgery (cases of severe dysphoria notwithstanding), yet somehow I'm the regressive one?

One thing I will say is that although opinionated I'm very easy going and generally pick my battles wisely, because life is too short, but I will fucking die on this hill. I've never been more certain of anything that we'll eventually be vindicated. AGP men and their deluded handmaidens are selling women and kids (gay, trans and otherwise) down the river for validation of their own little egos and its horrifying watching it unfold.

Ugh. I know I'm ranting pointlessly at the converted here but sometimes you just need somewhere to shout about the madness .

Welcome to TERF Club!



The trans rights movement is a homophobic, misogynistic movement.